Shadow needs more love in PVE

Ok so i nvr go to the forums but its got to be said ..... from class discussion talk blizz seems to think shadow is strong (would love to see where those numbers came from). but gear comparisons in ilvl and dps classes, shadow falls way behind. I just dont get the nerfs from SW:P its wasn't that strong to begin with.. ya i can put the dot up on multiple targets and go back to aoe dps but it still only closely compairs to that of mages, warlocks, and hunters ranged dps on aoe mobs. As for single target dps shadow slips way behind. I dont have the new teir set bonuses but from meta and teir set bonuses aside something is off and im not talking about a 2-3k dps its seems like for a standard ilvl and dps shadow is way off in terms of dps. would love to hear what others r experiencing. 5.1 we were in a alright place (not great but meh) and with the drop of 5.2 it seems to be moving in the opposite direction in terms of class balance.
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87 Draenei Shaman
6715
I was one of those lobbying for Shadow buffs in 5.2 and honestly, I'm quite happy with the way they turned out. They are middle-upper pack, with decent power in most situations and a nice 'easy to learn, hard to master' dps spec.

Naturally, I'd be happy with a bit more love for all the neglected specs out there (Feral, Balance, Elemental, Rogue, WW) but honestly...I think Shadow is decent now. Mind Flay needs a new graphic (something like Malefic Grasp?).

However there are classes that need more love that honestly should take priority at this point. Feral needs a mechanics overhaul. Elemental needs more thematic refinement (WTB pure lightning visuals) and a single target buff. Balance needs...something. Rogues need an entire class overhaul, but visually and mechanically (seriously - 3 specs, all feel the same mostly).

Also - keep in mind that Shadow seems...very strong in PvP. Possibly OP.

I'm not saying "no pony for you" but I think that there are some classes and specs ahead of you in the pony queue right now :)
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100 Draenei Shaman
5195
10man, middle of the pack
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/10N/all/7/30/default/

25man, top third
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25N/all/7/30/default/

Conclusion: Shadow does not deserve PvE buffs.

(Please don't call out heroics. We don't have enough parses to examine heroics yet.)
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thx for the numbers and yes i agree were not the worst off by no means but figured i would put it out there because it doesnt seem like the correct classes r getting the love. most grps i run with include the top dps classes and if im slipping behind i can only imagine what some of the others classes r feeling like :(. And yes i dont pvp much but i think shadow is pretty well off there. course pve i hate the 45s silience cd. anyways thx for the input all :)
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
Conclusion: Shadow does not deserve PvE buffs.


This.
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90 Pandaren Priest
10270
My only request with shadow is a slight buff to damage on the move. Otherwise, I'm happy with it.
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100 Draenei Shaman
5195
Shadow is actually exactly where you want to be. Middle of the pack doesn't need to be afraid of nerfs. Your spec won't be garbage tomorrow. Assassination and (to a lesser extent) unholy, not so much.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15965
My only request with shadow is a slight buff to damage on the move. Otherwise, I'm happy with it.


I agree here. Hitting Halo/Cascade then spamming Shadow Word: Pain is pretty lame.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Shadow is actually exactly where you want to be. Middle of the pack doesn't need to be afraid of nerfs. Your spec won't be garbage tomorrow. Assassination and (to a lesser extent) unholy, not so much.
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90 Troll Mage
0
I still foresee scailing problems for Shadow. Haste does nothing between 8085 and 10124. Crit does nothing for the other than the double damage. Mastery is so worthless.
Edited by Blowmeup on 4/3/2013 7:21 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
Mastery is so worthless.


Wait until you get Lei Shen's trinket.
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90 Undead Priest
9005
04/03/2013 07:49 AMPosted by Dictainabox
Mastery is so worthless.


Wait until you get Lei Shen's trinket.


Yeah I have heard that too. The 4 piece and that trinket. Never ending dots. Still its propped up by two variables that wont be availabe next tier. Will be deceptive to the developers in the 5.4 tier.
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90 Human Priest
12075
We're aren't that great single target or moving.

We're great everywhere else.

We're not being "propped up" by anything.

Haste is always the best secondary stat for Shadow beyond any Breakpoint.

Beyond what your 'feelings' may be Amen, we're in a great place. In the future do your readers a service by using complete words, reasonably correct grammar, punctuation and at least a couple hits on that button marked "Enter" on your keyboard :P
Edited by Woaden on 4/3/2013 4:06 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
10man, middle of the pack
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/10N/all/7/30/default/

25man, top third
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25N/all/7/30/default/

Conclusion: Shadow does not deserve PvE buffs.

(Please don't call out heroics. We don't have enough parses to examine heroics yet.)


their single target needs buffing. every fight that is 1 boss and no adds they are bottom of the barrel.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin%27rokh_the_Breaker/25H/all/14/60/default/

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ji-Kun/25H/all/14/60/default/

All they basically got was a 5% buff to offset hte buffs other classes got so its no real surprise they single target has actually gotten worse.

We have more data on these heroic fights than we did when mage got buffed but if u want to see normal.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin%27rokh_the_Breaker/25N/all/14/60/default/

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ji-Kun/25N/all/14/60/default/
Edited by Fayte on 4/4/2013 12:01 AM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
15105
04/02/2013 07:25 AMPosted by Teslâ
Feral needs a mechanics overhaul.


Not really - just a buff to the bonus damage from of Dream of Cenarius, and an overall buff somewhere (e.g. the Rip 15% increase that was previously going to go live)
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13695
Shadow is really strong right now.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Shadow is really strong right now.


I totally agree. shadow is doing well this tier because most of the fights are geared in their favor. I was just pointing out that their single target has actually gotten worse(of course in comparison to most other specs).
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13695
Single target definitely hasn't gotten worse relative to other classes. Our single target isn't stellar, that's true. However, it's still competitive if executed properly. And honestly, if it was anything more than that there would be significant balance problems, since our multi-dot/AoE is so strong.
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100 Draenei Shaman
5195
04/03/2013 11:49 PMPosted by Fayte
their single target needs buffing. every fight that is 1 boss and no adds they are bottom of the barrel.

You're supposed to perform better on some fights than others. That's generally OK, as long as overall you're in the middle of the pack.

There are some fine points to it; if a spec is middle of the pack for all of normal modes and most of heroics but terrible on heroic Lei'shen and Ra-den and your guild is blocked on those bosses, you'll be hurting.

But we don't have heroic data yet, and it seems unlikely that we'll ever have enough data on heroic Lei'shen or Ra-den while they're current content in 5.2 and 5.3. So that's a difficult call to make.
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