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Continued from http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8198643281
Continuing from the last thread, we finally did get some response, however I still think the topic is viable, the 20% buff helps, but not necessarily in the areas where we really need. I understand that GC said that all healers will have some weakness, it just seems that ours is so greatly amplified over the weaknesses of any other healer when the raid is not designed in our favor. Shamans still lack a reliable spread heal mechanic. There have been a lot of posts bringing up great ideas on how to fix this, Ill outline some of the ideas I remembered below.
- Get rid of the glyph and make the increased jump distance standard for the spell and no cd
- Allow CH to consume and benefit from tidal waves
- Reduce the cast time of CH
- Buff purification (although we kind of got this in the form of buffing spells that would not interfere with PvP).
- Make a glyph that allows a storm cloud (aoe heal) to follow the shaman around, obviously with a smaller radius of effect.
Healing Stream Totem:
- Reduce the cd
- Get rid of or reduce significantly the penalty that the current glyph imposes on the upfront healing.
There were some other ideas as well, however these were the more prominent ideas which seemed to be repeated among more than one person.
Again, I think that shamans heal just fine in terms of burst and output, however we're missing a fundamental class mechanic, not something that will make us absolutely great at healing every kind of raid situation, but at the very least a tool that we can depend on when an entire tier like Throne of Thunder introduces all spread raid designs.
Edited by Janthara on 3/28/2013 9:06 PM PDT
- Allow CH to consume and benefit from riptide
I'm assuming this means consume and benefit from Tidal Waves, correct?
I recall something similar that would in fact follow the target around. Either would be interesting.
Good post, let's keep the discussion going. Maybe after 30 reiterations of the same topic someone might actually notice something and respond in a way that doesn't feel like a cop-out.
Edited by Telltale on 3/28/2013 7:57 PM PDT
Yes, sorry meant consume tidal waves.
The idea for healing rain, I think that showed up on another post, maybe not necessarily associated with this thread series.
Chain Heal - Make each hop able to proc AA, increase the mana gains from resurgence if they reduce the cool down.
Riptide Glyph - Increase the coefficient for the front end heal by ~30% and increase the HoT coefficient similarly
Healing Stream - Reduce the cool down or increase the duration
Healing Rain - increase the range to 40 yards
Getting behind ideas sounds like a good idea to me, but you need to be careful about what the motivation is behind said ideas. As an example, some of the ideas that have been presented in those threads stink of *I don't want to have to adapt or change my playstyle,* and this is bad. What you want are ideas that give you the capabilities that you feel are lacking, without those ideas becoming effectively baseline for all fights.
I really wish the Shaman community would get off of trying to boost the effectiveness of either Healing Rain, or Chain Heal. Neither need buffed, and while Chain Heal could use some tweaks to its jump AI (as could some spells from other healing classes), it doesn't really need anything more. What Shamans could use (note, I did not say Need...) is a bridge for spread healing encounters, and those with a lot of movement.
Riptide Glyph - changed to cause the CD on Riptide to reset when you cast Healing Surge, increases the mana cost of Riptide by X%. The healing of the spell stays the same. This might be really OP for PvP, but that is outside my realm of expertise, so I won't comment on that.
You can already do this if you use the current Riptide glyph, but this version gives you the same capability, minus the weaker Riptide. Stronger spread and/or movement healing capability, with the bonuses of AV on multiple targets, increased avenues for Chain Heal use, and you don't feel like your Riptides are shackled to a tank.
The mana cost increase, plus linking it to Healing Surge, is to prevent the glyph from becoming default for every fight. It would be tempting indeed to try to use Healing Rain/HST/CH while using this glyph on stack fights, but I think the majority of Shamans would find themselves in a mana hurt-locker if they did.
Edited by Riôt on 3/28/2013 11:21 PM PDT
I really wish the Shaman community would get off of trying to boost the effectiveness of either Healing Rain, or Chain Heal
I don't recall once in the last two capped threads someone saying buff HR or Chain heal, the argument was actually that we'd accept a nerf if it meant that we could have a tool to use when moving/spreading out. As a matter of fact, everyone is complaining because they buffed the spells we don't need. GC's motivation on the other hand is pretty evident, rather than doing some work and fixing our problem he buffs 3 spells that do very little healing past council and meg, and the twenty percent no where near compensates for the healing we can't do when we're moving/spread out or both. He also stated pretty clearly that other than "We like shaman to be strong stacked healers" that those three spells were buffed because it would be hard to properly fix us without making us too strong in pvp, which i disagree with. If fixing our mobility and spread healing would cause pvp issues then that would mean that druids/monks/holy priests would already be too strong in pvp.
Edited by Shammyjake on 3/28/2013 11:44 PM PDT
I would be happy if I got a 20% buff to any of my heals. I wouldn't complain about it. Not that Resto Druids need a 20% buff. Granted if you keep complaining maybe you will get ANOTHER response and it will make the shaman I heal with even more powerful, which is fine by me. The more powerful you are the less work I have to do.
Cant say much for anything after the bird boss in ToT but everything up to and including him has moments where a lot of people are stacked and that 20% to chain heal and healing rain is huge during those moments. How are you not happy? Actually, don't answer that. I really dont want to know, as Im not going to change your opinion and youre not going to change mine. My point of this is you got a 20% buff to some of your spells. You should be thankful. I know I was when druids got a 10% buff across the board because we were lacking.
I'm not being ungrateful, but what good does it do the raid when theres constant damage while you're moving and can't heal it and then you only stack for a minute before you move again? It actually stresses the other healer more than a 20% buff to healing rain which ends up contributing the Overhealing more than the effective healing.
Evidence showed that Shamans were lacking in AoE output in even a best-case scenario. Naturally Blizzard buffs AoE output. It's fine to want more, but there's really no issue with their immediacy in making a simple numbers adjustment for a point-blank deficiency.
The change isn't meant to be seen as a "there, are you happy now?", it's just making an improvement that they have found permissible to green light.
Most of us asked for chain heal to be changed, not exactly a number buff. Were spread out a lot in ToT, try to chain heal and think enough people are in range, the wrong person gets topped off by a smart heal and it won't bounce at all. It's really not worth it, such a long cast time for a large risk.
And it's not that we need to be really good at spread healing either, it's just that we have like nothing but riptide and normal direct heals for it in most cases.
Edited by Venom on 3/29/2013 1:49 AM PDT
I haven't been comfortable with resto shamans since the end of wrath. They are way overdue for changes that don't involve making every boss fight centered around stacking for heals. The spread healing they have been given is focused around long cooldowns and chain heal has been left in such a haphazard state for far too long.
It irritates me that they left shamans the way they are going into tot knowing how much spreading and movement there would be.
Something new needs to be added or chain heal needs to finally be worked on.
I honestly don't think that a glyph redesign would be too difficult, mainly around RT. Increasing the front end heal by 30% and the HoT by 30% would be than enough imo. As for chain heal, it needs to be a faster cast period, there are too many things that can go wrong to make it a wasted cast. Healing Stream, it's fine but having either a longer duration or a shorter cool down would also go a long ways in improving our spread mechanics.
Chain Heal, even with the 20% buff, is still barely worth the mana cost and cast time even in an ideal situation (off a Riptide target and will hit 4 targets). The biggest problem is, it still really does not hit for enough, and is often risky to cast because, especially in a 25 man raid, you can set up your raid frames to show that it will hit 4 targets at the time of the cast. All that it takes is one of the targets in the chain to get topped to 100% or to move out of the jump range, and you can be left with a CH that doesn't bounce by the time you get the cast off. When you consider that the initial hit of CH only heals for about the same amount as POH (with the same cast time and mana cost), hits 4 targets instead of 5 (assuming groups are properly setup for PoH), degrades 30% per hop, has a limited chain jump radius, and doesn't have attached to it the Divine Aegis or Echo of Light procs that PoH does, you can see why it is considered such a weak and underwhelming tool.
Even with the buff, Shaman stacked AoE healing (i.e. Megaera) is only about on par with that of other classes. The argument that I would make is, our stacked AoE healing should be BETTER than that of any other healer, because no other healer has the same level of spread healing ineffectiveness as we have. It isn't balanced for every other healer to be about as good as us on a stacked raid (which is really the case now), and then for them to be far better than us during spread/mobile mechanics like most of ToT. If anything, they probably could have buffed HR and CH more. If we are going to be locked to a niche, we should absolutely dominate in that niche.
The other problem is, Mana Tide at currently available Spirit levels is completely over powered. At over 21,000 raid buffed Spirit, I am giving every healer almost 80,000 mana per MTT drop. In a 25 man raid, that is so strong that, for the overall benefit of the raid, Spirit stacking outweighs anything else you can do with throughput stats to boost your personal output (especially with our personal output so relatively weak this tier). I don't know why it was ever a good idea to have Mana Tide (and probably Rapture as well) scale with Spirit while all other regen cooldows like Innervate, Divine Plea, etc are locked to a static mana pool %. It makes 25 man Resto Shaman feel shackled though. What they should do is nerf MTT, lock it to returning something like 10% of your mana pool per drop, and then buff Shaman personal regen to compensate.
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