Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15 - Pt 3

90 Draenei Shaman
8960
I would be happy if I got a 20% buff to any of my heals. I wouldn't complain about it. Not that Resto Druids need a 20% buff. Granted if you keep complaining maybe you will get ANOTHER response and it will make the shaman I heal with even more powerful, which is fine by me. The more powerful you are the less work I have to do.


I'm sure every shaman here is happy we got a 20% buff to 3 of our healing spells, we aren't trying to argue that the buffs are not beneficial or that they are in some way making us worse, we are trying to point out that it really isn't solving what I believe and the other shamans believe to be the root problem of shaman healing. That problem is our toolkit just hasn't evolved as well as the other healers, I would argue that druid healing hasn't quite evolved either to be fair. We aren't asking for shamans to be excellent at everything, and certainly not asking to be the best spread raid healer, but rather to just have a spell we can use that isn't single target healing surge, or healing wave to heal up 10-15 people in a 25 man when there are so many better spells out there being used by the other healers to handle those kinds of situations. The best thing I can relate shaman healing to is trying to hammer a nail into a wall with a screwdriver and a brick, it can be done, but its very clumsy, you would much rather want to use a hammer. The most negative arguments directed towards the recent buff just pertain to placing us further and further into our niche, having to rely even more heavily on healing rain in particular rather than reducing our reliance on it, which is what most of the shamans were asking for, just more diversity in our spells, particularly our filler spells in between cds.

Even with the buff, Shaman stacked AoE healing (i.e. Megaera) is only about on par with that of other classes... that niche.


I agree that if the intent was to really limit us to stacked healing, then yes we should dominate in stacked healing situations, however I really feel like this is the wrong way to go, I prefer diversity in healing, and maybe I should be re-rolling a holy priest in particular if I really wanted to do that, but I can't understand why buff a spell like healing rain that we are already way too reliant on to try to superficially fix a problem? (To clarify I mean buffing it beyond 20% what it is currently). The major problem with shaman healing is a missing mechanic, a missing spell, buffing healing rain to buff our hps on the meters is really missing the point of what we were asking for. That being said, I just want to repeat that I am not complaining or arguing that the 20% buffs were unnecessary, because clearly they weren't, but for different reasons. Its a step in the right direction IF there is truly a plan to fix shamans in the area of spread healing, if its the first step down a road of additional buffs to healing rain and chain healing with no mechanical changes to either then I think that is going down the wrong path.

The other problem is, Mana Tide at currently available Spirit levels is completely over powered. At over 21,000 raid buffed Spirit, I am giving every healer almost 80,000 mana per MTT drop...compensate.


I haven't played around with being a true mana battery yet, but I can agree that perhaps MTT has to be nerfed and the shaman (alone) compensated for the change, especially since MTT is so popular with the utility argument, just because I have a spell that benefits and props up other healers shouldn't force me to give up what I think are staple spells that the other classes have, if that is the case then the definition of a shaman is a support to the support class. I'm sure that it helps having a support class supporting the support role of healers, but honestly that sounds about as dumb as it looks in this sentence. I would rather be able to help the raid myself just as any other class is able to.
Edited by Janthara on 3/29/2013 7:48 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105


I agree that if the intent was to really limit us to stacked healing, then yes we should dominate in stacked healing situations, however I really feel like this is the wrong way to go, I prefer diversity in healing, and maybe I should be re-rolling a holy priest in particular if I really wanted to do that, but I can't understand why buff a spell like healing rain that we are already way too reliant on to try to superficially fix a problem? (To clarify I mean buffing it beyond 20% what it is currently). The major problem with shaman healing is a missing mechanic, a missing spell, buffing healing rain to buff our hps on the meters is really missing the point of what we were asking for. That being said, I just want to repeat that I am not complaining or arguing that the 20% buffs were unnecessary, because clearly they weren't, but for different reasons. Its a step in the right direction IF there is truly a plan to fix shamans in the area of spread healing, if its the first step down a road of additional buffs to healing rain and chain healing with no mechanical changes to either then I think that is going down the wrong path.


Right now, we are good at stacked healing and terrible at spread healing, whereas nearly every other healer is good at both stacked and spread healing. For it to be balanced, either we need to be made good at spread healing as well, or we need to be great at stacked healing and dominate every other class in that situation to compensate for the weaknesses elsewhere.

I would agree that it's better class design to make us balanced across both fight types, but it seems like Blizzard's design philosophy is to stick with the stacked healing niche. If that's the case, our stacked healing is not dominant enough and needs further buffs.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8960
I would agree that it's better class design to make us balanced across both fight types, but it seems like Blizzard's design philosophy is to stick with the stacked healing niche. If that's the case, our stacked healing is not dominant enough and needs further buffs.


Sadly if that is the case, (which judging from GC's comment on buffing strengths and not fixing weaknesses) is truly the intent of designers, then I agree as well stacked healing needs to be even more buffed.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
When you consider that the initial hit of CH only heals for about the same amount as POH (with the same cast time and mana cost), hits 4 targets instead of 5 (assuming groups are properly setup for PoH), degrades 30% per hop, has a limited chain jump radius, and doesn't have attached to it the Divine Aegis or Echo of Light procs that PoH does, you can see why it is considered such a weak and underwhelming tool.


Just want to clarify certain things since you're making a comparison to PoH:

- Unlike CH, PoH has a group restriction and also suffers, albeit to a lesser extent, if the raid is rather spread. Although, I have no issues with increasing the radius of CH.

- Unlike CH, PoH is not a smart, raid wide heal which means it has much higher overhealing

- While PoH procs EoL, CH procs Deep Healing and the contribution from Deep Healing does more than EoL when targets are at <60% HP for equal Mastery values.

- CH has a chance to proc Earthliving and also benefits from Unleash Elements.

- Each CH cast gives you a stack of Tidal Waves.

- Also, the non-quantifiable benefit of SLT's health redistribution and 10% reduced damage are not displayed on logs, especially during stack phases.

- Similarly, the benefit from Vigor does not show up on logs either.

- Output from Resto Shaman is slightly lower due to them purely stacking Spirit, and the output from mana starved classes like Holy Priests and Resto Druids are highly boosted by MTT. As a Holy Priest, a MTT alone can contribute at least 10-15% to my total output.

These two factors can make for non-trival differences in output, and need to be taken into consideration.

- Holy Priests only form of reliable utility is GS (and the occassional Leap of Faith). Shamans have Vigor, MTT, SLT and Stormlash in comparison.

If we're going to argue that stacking is a Shaman's niche, then I'd argue that raid healing is the Holy Priest's niche and we should always be doing higher HPS than Shamans. We simply do not have the versatility of swapping between our raid heals and single target heals (we could, at a rather substantial loss in effectiveness).
Edited by Ceddya on 3/29/2013 8:30 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
03/29/2013 08:27 AMPosted by Ceddya
When you consider that the initial hit of CH only heals for about the same amount as POH (with the same cast time and mana cost), hits 4 targets instead of 5 (assuming groups are properly setup for PoH), degrades 30% per hop, has a limited chain jump radius, and doesn't have attached to it the Divine Aegis or Echo of Light procs that PoH does, you can see why it is considered such a weak and underwhelming tool.


Just want to clarify certain things since you're making a comparison to PoH:

- Unlike CH, PoH has a group restriction and also suffers, albeit to a lesser extent, if the raid is rather spread. Although, I have no issues with increasing the radius of CH.

- Unlike CH, PoH is not a smart, raid wide heal which means it has much higher overhealing

- While PoH procs EoL, CH procs Deep Healing and the contribution from Deep Healing does more than EoL when targets are at <60% HP for equal Mastery values.

- CH has a chance to proc Earthliving and also benefits from Unleash Elements.

- Each CH cast gives you a stack of Tidal Waves.

- Also, the non-quantifiable benefit of SLT's health redistribution and 10% reduced damage are not displayed on logs, especially during stack phases.

- Similarly, the benefit from Vigor does not show up on logs either.

- Output from Resto Shaman is slightly lower due to them purely stacking Spirit, and the output from mana starved classes like Holy Priests and Resto Druids are highly boosted by MTT. As a Holy Priest, a MTT alone can contribute at least 10-15% to my total output.

These two factors can make for non-trival differences in output, and need to be taken into consideration.

- Holy Priests only form of reliable utility is GS (and the occassional Leap of Faith). Shamans have Vigor, MTT, SLT and Stormlash in comparison.

If we're going to argue that stacking is a Shaman's niche, then I'd argue that raid healing is the Holy Priest's niche and we should always be doing higher HPS than Shamans. We simply do not have the versatility of swapping between our raid heals and single target heals (we could, at a rather substantial loss in effectiveness).


You are willfully ignoring utility that Holy Priests bring like Hymn of Hope, Void Shift, Body and Soul, and the increased healing on targets that Divine Hymn hits.

Raid healing is what every healer does in a raid. That isn't a niche; that's like a rogue arguing "I am a pure DPS and bring no utility therefore I should always top damage meters" - that type of class design doesn't fly anymore. If Shaman are going to be signficantly inferior to holy priests in every situation outside of the raid being stationary and stacking, they need to dominate holy priests in that one situation.

I've already argued that Mana Tide is too strong and contributes to much to other healing specs while leaving Shaman feeling like they are stuck being a "buffbot". They should nerf it dramatically, unlink it from Spirit scaling, and buff Shaman personal regen to compensate.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
You are willfully ignoring utility that Holy Priests bring like Hymn of Hope, Void Shift, Body and Soul, and the increased healing on targets that Divine Hymn hits.


- The healing buff from DH is useful, sure, but it's certainly not a raid wide buff.

- Looking at many logs, HoH often targets DPS (go have a look at the Megaera log you linked in the previous thread, most of the ticks ended up on your DPS) and even if all ticks goes on healers, it has a 6-min CD and does not even come close to how much mana MTT provides.

- Body and Soul is highly situational and more often than not is self-casted for the speed boost. No Holy Priest is going to spend 18k mana regularly just to proc BnS, especially not when most classes have their own speed boosts now.

- Void Shift is great, but it's also highly situational. It's not something that tank CDs are planned around.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10575
03/29/2013 08:27 AMPosted by Ceddya
When you consider that the initial hit of CH only heals for about the same amount as POH (with the same cast time and mana cost), hits 4 targets instead of 5 (assuming groups are properly setup for PoH), degrades 30% per hop, has a limited chain jump radius, and doesn't have attached to it the Divine Aegis or Echo of Light procs that PoH does, you can see why it is considered such a weak and underwhelming tool.


Just want to clarify certain things since you're making a comparison to PoH:

- Unlike CH, PoH has a group restriction and also suffers, albeit to a lesser extent, if the raid is rather spread. Although, I have no issues with increasing the radius of CH.

- Unlike CH, PoH is not a smart, raid wide heal which means it has much higher overhealing

- While PoH procs EoL, CH procs Deep Healing and the contribution from Deep Healing does more than EoL when targets are at <60% HP for equal Mastery values.

- CH has a chance to proc Earthliving and also benefits from Unleash Elements.

- Each CH cast gives you a stack of Tidal Waves.

- Also, the non-quantifiable benefit of SLT's health redistribution and 10% reduced damage are not displayed on logs, especially during stack phases.

- Similarly, the benefit from Vigor does not show up on logs either.

- Output from Resto Shaman is slightly lower due to them purely stacking Spirit, and the output from mana starved classes like Holy Priests and Resto Druids are highly boosted by MTT. As a Holy Priest, a MTT alone can contribute at least 10-15% to my total output.

These two factors can make for non-trival differences in output, and need to be taken into consideration.

- Holy Priests only form of reliable utility is GS (and the occassional Leap of Faith). Shamans have Vigor, MTT, SLT and Stormlash in comparison.

If we're going to argue that stacking is a Shaman's niche, then I'd argue that raid healing is the Holy Priest's niche and we should always be doing higher HPS than Shamans. We simply do not have the versatility of swapping between our raid heals and single target heals (we could, at a rather substantial loss in effectiveness).


You forgot to mention the free insta-bounce PoM you can proc when spec'd Divine Insight(you are currently spec'd that) and the best raid CD in the game with Divine Hymn. That is on top on void shift, GS, and pretty high mobility.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
You forgot to mention the free insta-bounce PoM you can proc when spec'd Divine Insight(you are currently spec'd that) and the best raid CD in the game with Divine Hymn. That is on top on void shift, GS, and pretty high mobility.


Spiritwalker's Grace and a raid CD in the form of HTT that can be used while moving (unlike DH) says hello.

Divine Insight is great, but so is HR and HST. The end result is that Resto Shaman output is pretty close to a Holy Priest's after the buffs, with Shamans bring much better utility.

Sure, ask for a range increase to CH to assist with spread healing, but your stacked healing needs no further buffs.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
If we're going to argue that stacking is a Shaman's niche, then I'd argue that raid healing is the Holy Priest's niche and we should always be doing higher HPS than Shamans. We simply do not have the versatility of swapping between our raid heals and single target heals (we could, at a rather substantial loss in effectiveness).


Ceddya, it is not the shaman in this thread that are "arguing" stacking is a Shaman niche. There is no argument; it is simply a fact, even though most of us don't like it. In fact, Ghostcrawler just made it explicitly clear in his twitter feed like a day ago as part of an explanation why the buffs were to HR and CH. There is nothing to argue. For better or worse, this is blizzard's design intent with respect to shaman, at least for the moment.

Additionally, it is not (at least to me) particularly compelling to point to Chakra sucking as a reason not to buff shaman.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
03/29/2013 09:55 AMPosted by Taymage
If we're going to argue that stacking is a Shaman's niche, then I'd argue that raid healing is the Holy Priest's niche and we should always be doing higher HPS than Shamans. We simply do not have the versatility of swapping between our raid heals and single target heals (we could, at a rather substantial loss in effectiveness).


Ceddya, it is not the shaman in this thread that are "arguing" stacking is a Shaman niche. There is no argument; it is simply a fact, even though most of us don't like it. In fact, Ghostcrawler just made it explicitly clear in his twitter feed like a day ago as part of an explanation why the buffs were to HR and CH. There is nothing to argue. For better or worse, this is blizzard's design intent with respect to shaman, at least for the moment.

Additionally, it is not (at least to me) particularly compelling to point to Chakra sucking as a reason not to buff shaman.


Pretty much that. They have clearly established that the design intention is for Resto Shaman to be built around a stacked AoE healing niche. I don't think that it's good design, because it causes mechanical issues and viability issues on certain fights, but it is what it is. However, if their plan is to design stacked healing as the Shaman niche with major weaknesses when the raid is spread or moving, then Shaman have every right to expect to dominate all other healers in situations where the raid is stacked up and stationary.

The problem is, even with the buff, we aren't even really ahead of other healers in that situation (we are generally behind Paladins, behind Mistweavers and behind Disc Priests that set up Spirit Shell correctly), let alone dominating them enough in that situation to make the shortcomings of the rest of our toolkit acceptable.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
The secret allure of shaman's is that they are supressed by other healers.

For example, on H25Meg... Tib had around 170k raw healing, and minimal mastery effect... leading to 70something k effective.
Tib's paladin had 100k effective healing but only 30% overheal. In other words, only 130k healing.

So if the fight would have gone sour (unrezable healer) or you would have 5-6 healed in the first place... what impact would you expect that to have on your healing? What impact on the paladins healing?

Shaman have the greatest ability to make up for a lack of output, specifically in a stacked situation. When people overheal fights, it get negated. Of course, when you bring less healers, then you have to sit people... do you sit the guy who's performance will jump to #1-3 once you drop healers?

Dark Animus and Twins are still fairly ugly, but on the other hand, Dark Animus just feels like there isn't much to heal. Twins is very bursty, but without the good sustained burst, and there is an emphasis specifically on bursting only ranged dpsers.

Tortos25... HR on the bat killing melee and bat tank and MT all at once... the whole fight... you can't tell me HR is unusable in this fight. I got 7M effective healing from it (@80% overheal) in a 5:40 encounter. Of course we had a priest accidently in PVP gear, and a MW who basically just focused on AoEing bats the whole time. It helps. But still. HR works..
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
The secret allure of shaman's is that they are supressed by other healers.

For example, on H25Meg... Tib had around 170k raw healing, and minimal mastery effect... leading to 70something k effective.
Tib's paladin had 100k effective healing but only 30% overheal. In other words, only 130k healing.

So if the fight would have gone sour (unrezable healer) or you would have 5-6 healed in the first place... what impact would you expect that to have on your healing? What impact on the paladins healing?

Shaman have the greatest ability to make up for a lack of output, specifically in a stacked situation. When people overheal fights, it get negated. Of course, when you bring less healers, then you have to sit people... do you sit the guy who's performance will jump to #1-3 once you drop healers?

Dark Animus and Twins are still fairly ugly, but on the other hand, Dark Animus just feels like there isn't much to heal. Twins is very bursty, but without the good sustained burst, and there is an emphasis specifically on bursting only ranged dpsers.

Tortos25... HR on the bat killing melee and bat tank and MT all at once... the whole fight... you can't tell me HR is unusable in this fight. I got 7M effective healing from it (@80% overheal) in a 5:40 encounter. Of course we had a priest accidently in PVP gear, and a MW who basically just focused on AoEing bats the whole time. It helps. But still. HR works..


Our overhealing vs effective healing analysis is severely inflated by Healing Rain. They have basically buffed it to the point that you want to be using it almost no matter what - even at 80% overheal, even with it only effective on 3 targets, it is superior HPM/HPS to any other option that we have. It is arguably even worth keeping down on a melee group that isn't really taking damage if you can afford the mana to do so to roll Ancestral Vigor. Therefore, the perception of our raw throughput is greatly inflated by the fact that you will never have anything close to 100% effectiveness on Healing Rain. Over 50% of my raw healing on that fight was HR (which had a 75% overheal).

I have started going for Mastery as the primary secondary stat after Spirit, not because it's generally better throughput than Crit (Crit would result in more actual HPS), but because the throughput that it does deliver happens when it actually matters the most (i.e. HTT usage on a raid that is bleeding out, etc).
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90 Pandaren Shaman
5690
I really wish the Shaman community would get off of trying to boost the effectiveness of either Healing Rain, or Chain Heal. Neither need buffed, and while Chain Heal could use some tweaks to its jump AI (as could some spells from other healing classes), it doesn't really need anything more. What Shamans could use (note, I did not say Need...) is a bridge for spread healing encounters, and those with a lot of movement.

See, though... that is what we've been asking for. I think one of the most frustrating things for a healing Shaman is seeing that we would already have the right tools for the job, if only they were implemented correctly.

Take Chain Heal. For ages Blizzard told us that they couldn't increase the range on the jumps due to a mechanical issue, that the tech just wouldn't support it for some reason. Now, we know that either that was blatantly false, or that the tech was updated enough to allow for the increased range... and yet they still decide to slap on a penalty instead of giving Resto Shaman one of the biggest things they've been asking for for ages.

-If Chain Heal was simply allowed to have the extended range without being shackled to a cool-down, and maybe have the cast time reduced to 2.0 seconds, there would be an answer to our spread healing.

-If Riptide was tweaked to be competitive with, say, Rejuvenation (competitive, not necessarily better), there would be an answer to help with our mobility.

The point is, the groundwork is already there. We don't need something new and shiny. We just need our current toolkit to evolve enough to be able to adapt to the increasingly complex raiding environment that exists today.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
5690
They have clearly established that the design intention is for Resto Shaman to be built around a stacked AoE healing niche. I don't think that it's good design, because it causes mechanical issues and viability issues on certain fights, but it is what it is.

You're right. It isn't a good design. If they're going to start declaring "niches" for us, I would rather just go back to the days when *this person* was a tank healer, and *that person* was a raid healer, no room for debate.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Ceddya, it is not the shaman in this thread that are "arguing" stacking is a Shaman niche. There is no argument; it is simply a fact, even though most of us don't like it. In fact, Ghostcrawler just made it explicitly clear in his twitter feed like a day ago as part of an explanation why the buffs were to HR and CH. There is nothing to argue. For better or worse, this is blizzard's design intent with respect to shaman, at least for the moment.


It is your niche, which is why Shamans are still one of the better stacked healers.

The main issue I have is that Shamans bring so much hidden healing when stacked, yet it's something that's so willfully ignored when asking for further throughput buffs.

I wish people would stop using logs alone to argue that Shamans need further buffs. The argument that 'it's our niche - we should be dominating stacked healing' is flawed, simply because the logs themselves are flawed.

Simply put, when things go right or if content is overhealed, Shamans are naturally going to do lower healing due to the way their Mastery works and also due to the many absorbs out there. After all, healing distribution is a zero-sum system. Still, Shamans are the best healers at getting the raid back up when the raid dips low, and it's a strength of your Mastery that's not always seen in logs.

Also, no one ever takes into account SLT or Vigor (both of which NO other healer brings) when mentioning numbers. These do not show up in logs, but their contribution cannot be ignored.

Further, the contribution from MTT to the other healers in a 25-man is something that's so undeniably strong. I can assure you that if MTT were changed to only affect the Shaman, you'd see quite a substantial drop (of varying degrees for the different healers) in numbers from the other healers. Couple that with Shamans no longer stacking Spirit, and you'd see Shamans doing much better in comparison, even without further buffs to your healing.

I wish Blizzard would just increase the range of CH and be done with it so that we'd stop having the few posters continually asking for further buffs to output.
Edited by Ceddya on 3/29/2013 12:09 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
03/29/2013 12:06 PMPosted by Ceddya
Ceddya, it is not the shaman in this thread that are "arguing" stacking is a Shaman niche. There is no argument; it is simply a fact, even though most of us don't like it. In fact, Ghostcrawler just made it explicitly clear in his twitter feed like a day ago as part of an explanation why the buffs were to HR and CH. There is nothing to argue. For better or worse, this is blizzard's design intent with respect to shaman, at least for the moment.


It is your niche, which is why Shamans are still one of the better stacked healers.

The main issue I have is that Shamans bring so much hidden healing when stacked, yet it's something that's so willfully ignored when asking for further throughput buffs.

I wish people would stop using logs alone to argue that Shamans need further buffs. The argument that 'it's our niche - we should be dominating stacked healing' is flawed, simply because the logs themselves are flawed.

Simply put, when things go right or if content is overhealed, Shamans are naturally going to do lower healing due to the way their Mastery works and also due to the many absorbs out there. After all, healing distribution is a zero-sum system. Still, Shamans are the best healers at getting the raid back up when the raid dips low, and it's a strength of your Mastery that's not always seen in logs.

Also, no one ever takes into account SLT or Vigor (both of which NO other healer brings) when mentioning numbers. These do not show up in logs, but their contribution cannot be ignored.

Further, the contribution from MTT to the other healers in a 25-man is something that's so undeniably strong. I can assure you that if MTT were changed to only affect the Shaman, you'd see quite a substantial drop (of varying degrees for the different healers) in numbers from the other healers. Couple that with Shamans no longer stacking Spirit, and you'd see Shamans doing much better in comparison, even without further buffs to your healing.

I wish Blizzard would just increase the range of CH and be done with it so that we'd stop having the few posters continually asking for further buffs to output.


"One of the better stacked healers" is not good enough if we are also the worst healer or close to the worst healer at almost everything else. If we are going to be pigeon holed into a niche to the exclusion of being given necessarily mechanics to be competitive out of that niche, we need to dominate that niche. Not average, not one of the best - dominate. Either that, or they can reconsider their idotic design concept of the stacked healing niche in the first place.

There are a lot of things no one takes into account. No one takes into account the damage reduction provided by Devo Aura, PW: Barrier, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Purity, Hand of Protection, Void Shift, Ironbark or the extra healing buff provided by Guardian Spirit, Life Cocoon or Divine Hymn either.

Buffing the Chain Heal jump range would do nothing for 25 man raiding and very little for 10 man raiding. The issue with the spell isn't really the ability to get it to hit 4 targets (at least in 25 man), it's the clunky nature, long cast time in a very mobile tier, and weak throughput even when it is executed perfectly (even post 20% buff).

I don't think it's at all a terrible idea to make MTT Shaman only (or at least cap it to the static mana pool and remove gear scaling). If they are really balancing Shaman around being buff bots to increase the output of other healers at the expense of their own, then that is poor design and not fun for the people playing the spec, and it should be done away with. If that is the case, they should also look into Hymn of Hope and ensuring that the contribution that it makes (while undeniably smaller than that of MTT) is appropriately taxed to both priest specs (or made to only give Priests back mana).
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
There are a lot of things no one takes into account. No one takes into account the damage reduction provided by Devo Aura, PW: Barrier, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Purity, Hand of Protection, Void Shift, Ironbark or the extra healing buff provided by Guardian Spirit, Life Cocoon or Divine Hymn either.


Apart from DRs from Paladins and Disc Priests, most of the othe spells show up in meters in one form or the other. The benefit of health redistribution from SLT or the extra max HP from Vigor is not as easily quantifiable.

Buffing the Chain Heal jump range would do nothing for 25 man raiding and very little for 10 man raiding. The issue with the spell isn't really the ability to get it to hit 4 targets (at least in 25 man), it's the clunky nature, long cast time in a very mobile tier, and weak throughput even when it is executed perfectly (even post 20% buff).


This is exactly the same with PoH for Holy Priests, except that they have alternatives to cast (albeit each with a CD) when moving. In the same vein, this doesn't seem as much an issue with CH as it is with Shamans not having enough supplementals outside of Spiritwalker's to assist them with heavy movement fights. It would seem more practical to target RT (or its glyph) for improvement instead, or perhaps allow the Shaman to relocate HR at a small cost.

I don't think it's at all a terrible idea to make MTT Shaman only (or at least cap it to the static mana pool and remove gear scaling). If they are really balancing Shaman around being buff bots to increase the output of other healers at the expense of their own, then that is poor design and not fun for the people playing the spec, and it should be done away with. If that is the case, they should also look into Hymn of Hope and ensuring that the contribution that it makes (while undeniably smaller than that of MTT) is appropriately taxed to both priest specs (or made to only give Priests back mana).


I don't think Shamans are being taxed for having MTT. It's just that the other healers probably weren't balanced with MTT in the equation, and having that MTT boosts their output so that it seems relatively higher than a Shaman's.

We're probably arguing semantics at this point though, but I honestly would take a reduction in my throughput in exchange for a buff as good as MTT.
Edited by Ceddya on 3/29/2013 12:56 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
7995
We should be fine without Healing rain being down, it should ONLY be put down when the situation calls for it. It should not be put down regardless of the situation, that's a flaw in our class design. Anything that is mandatory, or
that you want to be using it almost no matter what - even at 80% overheal, even with it only effective on 3 targets

How is that amount of overheal, on so few targets acceptable?
Edited by Böda on 3/29/2013 1:03 PM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
03/29/2013 01:01 PMPosted by Böda
We should be fine without Healing rain being down, it should ONLY be put down when the situation calls for it. It should not be put down regardless of the situation, that's a flaw in our class design. Anything that is mandatory, or
that you want to be using it almost no matter what - even at 80% overheal, even with it only effective on 3 targets

How is that amount of overheal, on so few targets acceptable?

On durumu/eagle, I frequently maintain healing rain under the tanks between spectrum/maze or quills. It is probably 70-80% overhealing. It's only on 2 people, depending on melee positioning. But it really helps keep the tank damage from being as spiky feeling, and it let's me riptide ranged players b/c I know AV is up on the tanks from HR.

What's the problem? UL-HR on a single target is about as efficient as GHW now.
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Chain Heal, even with the 20% buff, is still barely worth the mana cost and cast time even in an ideal situation (off a Riptide target and will hit 4 targets). The biggest problem is, it still really does not hit for enough


You're wrong about this. I thought this earlier, but left it alone since I had no proof. Well here you go.

http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t130574-resto_its_raining_heals_5_2_a/p9/

Check post 134

Also a lot of your gripes about CH are solved with the glyph.

I do agree with you about MTT though. Its almost exacly like last expansion where resto was in a poor spot, but MTT was overpowered. I imagine they will do somthing to fix this, but not before 5.3.
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