Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15 - Pt 3

90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Rankings for healers don't really mean much, it often is due to one of three things.

1. Less healers than normally used for the fight
2. Padding meters
3. Your raid loves to stand in fire

Rankings don't mean jack!@#$, your raid living to down the fight does.

Though I do agree Shamans do need a little something something the recent buffs didn't do nothing. Take them for the time being, I'm sure more adjustments will be made, they're only hotfixing every 3 days right now.

Edit: I also don't get your thing for Mastery, it's pretty trash for Resto Shamans whichever way you slice it and purely situational and I don't see why you'd take it over Crit as a regen stat by getting as many Resurgence procs as possible. Especially if you're raiding 25s, you're likely to have a couple of healers spamming a heal into someone if it's a singular person low or all of them spamming if it's raid-wide heavy damage, leaving even less room for your Mastery to breath.


Crit is generally slightly superior total throughput. However, Mastery gives you superior throughput when you need it the most, which is more important in 25H progression. Because I have reached the Spirit level where the Resurgence regen scaling of Crit isn't that important, I would rather have stronger output when it matters the most to whether the boss dies or we wipe than stronger WoL rankings. High mastery is pretty amazing when the raid is bleeding out and you need to drop an HTT or Ascendance.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17040
03/31/2013 04:21 AMPosted by Kasan
it's pretty trash for Resto Shamans whichever way you slice it


This is completely wrong, and it has been completely wrong for years.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Here is how I feel about Resto Shaman and how we stack up on the heroic bosses that I have seen so far this tier.

Heroic Jin'rokh - This really isn't much of a stack fight on heroic with people running in and out with Ionization and during Lightning Storm. Burst cooldowns are nice for Lightning Storm/dispel, but I wouldn't call this a strong Shaman fight

Heroic Horridon - Shaman feel awful and frustrating to play on this fight. The first phase is nearly constant movement, and very little raid damage. You would think the second phase would favor Shaman because we can stack, but it really doesn't. The damage from Dire Call is on such a predictable timer that most of the healing in P2 gets sniped by absorbs. The only positive is that Searing Totem makes it easier for us to keep our Direhorn knocked back than any other healer.

Heroic Council - Shaman feel pretty good on this fight. There's a lot of AoE ticking raid damage, HR can consistently be dropped on melee and sometimes the entire raid, and our throughput doesn't feel as far behind as on some of the more spread fights.

Heroic Tortos - Shaman aren't as bad on this as we have the reputation of being (top guilds sitting Shaman for first kills). The shield mechanic makes our mastery worthless, and makes Chain Heal not bounce, but the almost no overhealing nature of the shields also makes Healing Rain a lot more effective, and our CDs for quake stomp are strong.

Heroic Ji-Kun - Strong cooldowns for Quills. I was on the main platform tank healing and not doing a nest group, but I'd imagine we are pretty weak for that since it would amount to single target spam.

Heroic Primordius - The fight feels awful for Shaman. There's a lot of AOE damage, but the boss/melee are constantly moving, making it hard to get strong effectiveness on Healing Rain, and the spread mechanics requirements make getting more than 3-4 ranged in a HR next to impossible.

Heroic Iron Qon - Shaman feel really strong for this. Lots and lots of stacked healing on targets that drop to low health, making our mastery shine. This is probably our strongest fight of the tier.
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90 Troll Shaman
13320
I actually feel that rsham is quite strong for heroic horridon, but we are stacked most of the time. Council heroic is a greater fight for rsham, and tortos isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Primordius heroic feels awkward but doable. Only fight I haven't healed (went ele) is heroic durumu and I'd imagine it would be awful to heal as a rsham.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
I actually feel that rsham is quite strong for heroic horridon, but we are stacked most of the time. Council heroic is a greater fight for rsham, and tortos isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Primordius heroic feels awkward but doable. Only fight I haven't healed (went ele) is heroic durumu and I'd imagine it would be awful to heal as a rsham.

Yea, the only bad fights to heal is Jin'rokh , Durumu never healed it but its probably a crappy fight cause all the movement , Dark Animus , Twin consorts , Lei shen. All other fights are fine for a resto sham. so blizz if you notice all the fights i listed you can't really put healing Rain Down and chain heal doesn't jump far enough so go ahead and write that down please.
Edited by Totemtown on 4/5/2013 5:41 AM PDT
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90 Troll Shaman
13320
04/05/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Totemtown
I actually feel that rsham is quite strong for heroic horridon, but we are stacked most of the time. Council heroic is a greater fight for rsham, and tortos isn't nearly as bad as I thought. Primordius heroic feels awkward but doable. Only fight I haven't healed (went ele) is heroic durumu and I'd imagine it would be awful to heal as a rsham.

Yea, the only bad fights to heal is Jin'rokh , Durumu never healed it but its probably a crappy fight cause all the movement , Dark Animus , Twin consorts , Lei shen. All other fights are fine for a resto sham. so blizz if you notice all the fights i listed you can't really put healing Rain Down and chain heal doesn't jump far enough so go ahead and write that down please.


We must be sacrificed in the name of diversity!
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
One 5.3 change that may help us slightly is them making Glyph of Unleashed Lightning baseline so that we can cast LB while moving. We don't have a lot of options while moving now, but this change will let us fill some of the dead time with LB casts with the Telluric Currents glyph, which might be somewhat nice. Granted, we can already do that now with the Unleashed Lightning glyph, but it's pretty hard to justify using 2 major glyph slots for Lightning Bolt.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
12420
One 5.3 change that may help us slightly is them making Glyph of Unleashed Lightning baseline so that we can cast LB while moving. We don't have a lot of options while moving now, but this change will let us fill some of the dead time with LB casts with the Telluric Currents glyph, which might be somewhat nice. Granted, we can already do that now with the Unleashed Lightning glyph, but it's pretty hard to justify using 2 major glyph slots for Lightning Bolt.


Is this really what we're stooping to? Trying to find the positives in casting lightning bolt while moving?

A welcome change, don't get me wrong, but... come on. About as ridiculous as GC worrying that casting lightning bolt on the move would somehow make resto OP in PvP.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
So last night on our heroic Council kill, our Shaman did 17.7 million healing with just Healing Rain. He did 8.6 million healing with Chain Heal and just under 5.6 million healing with Earthliving. His total HPS was 94,347 and though every single one of the healers ranked in that kill, he was the highest out of all of us.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17040
That was their intent. To make people complain less about meters by slapping on an ill-advised bandaid fix.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
That was their intent. To make people complain less about meters by slapping on an ill-advised bandaid fix.


Sure. But when you can make a strat that revolves completely around, "Kill Sul, then EVERYONE get into the Healing Rain," it's a little lulzy.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10405
Getting behind ideas sounds like a good idea to me, but you need to be careful about what the motivation is behind said ideas. As an example, some of the ideas that have been presented in those threads stink of *I don't want to have to adapt or change my playstyle,* and this is bad. What you want are ideas that give you the capabilities that you feel are lacking, without those ideas becoming effectively baseline for all fights.

I really wish the Shaman community would get off of trying to boost the effectiveness of either Healing Rain, or Chain Heal. Neither need buffed, and while Chain Heal could use some tweaks to its jump AI (as could some spells from other healing classes), it doesn't really need anything more. What Shamans could use (note, I did not say Need...) is a bridge for spread healing encounters, and those with a lot of movement.

Riptide Glyph - changed to cause the CD on Riptide to reset when you cast Healing Surge, increases the mana cost of Riptide by X%. The healing of the spell stays the same. This might be really OP for PvP, but that is outside my realm of expertise, so I won't comment on that.

You can already do this if you use the current Riptide glyph, but this version gives you the same capability, minus the weaker Riptide. Stronger spread and/or movement healing capability, with the bonuses of AV on multiple targets, increased avenues for Chain Heal use, and you don't feel like your Riptides are shackled to a tank.

The mana cost increase, plus linking it to Healing Surge, is to prevent the glyph from becoming default for every fight. It would be tempting indeed to try to use Healing Rain/HST/CH while using this glyph on stack fights, but I think the majority of Shamans would find themselves in a mana hurt-locker if they did.

Riôt


Riot no self respecting shaman uses chain heal like we used too. It used to be an iconic spell now its a like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Chain heal is my least used spell by far. While I respect your comments I don't think you've played the class enough to understand the issues and problems its having. As you have played a paladin for so long it may be hard to know what its like to be on the bottom. Paladins have been a strong healing class since Wrath and have only gotten stronger and better. You look at a paladin from wrath to now and the changes are staggering. What have shaman gotten changed since wrath? Healing rain and a couple new totems. No one is asking not to adapt play styles most of us have. I used to stack haste forever, then I stacked mastery, now to adapt to fights not being stacked and having to rely on AA more I stack crit. Thats adapting.
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90 Orc Shaman
HC
15680
Getting behind ideas sounds like a good idea to me, but you need to be careful about what the motivation is behind said ideas. As an example, some of the ideas that have been presented in those threads stink of *I don't want to have to adapt or change my playstyle,* and this is bad. What you want are ideas that give you the capabilities that you feel are lacking, without those ideas becoming effectively baseline for all fights.

I really wish the Shaman community would get off of trying to boost the effectiveness of either Healing Rain, or Chain Heal. Neither need buffed, and while Chain Heal could use some tweaks to its jump AI (as could some spells from other healing classes), it doesn't really need anything more. What Shamans could use (note, I did not say Need...) is a bridge for spread healing encounters, and those with a lot of movement.

Riptide Glyph - changed to cause the CD on Riptide to reset when you cast Healing Surge, increases the mana cost of Riptide by X%. The healing of the spell stays the same. This might be really OP for PvP, but that is outside my realm of expertise, so I won't comment on that.

You can already do this if you use the current Riptide glyph, but this version gives you the same capability, minus the weaker Riptide. Stronger spread and/or movement healing capability, with the bonuses of AV on multiple targets, increased avenues for Chain Heal use, and you don't feel like your Riptides are shackled to a tank.

The mana cost increase, plus linking it to Healing Surge, is to prevent the glyph from becoming default for every fight. It would be tempting indeed to try to use Healing Rain/HST/CH while using this glyph on stack fights, but I think the majority of Shamans would find themselves in a mana hurt-locker if they did.

Riôt


Riot no self respecting shaman uses chain heal like we used too. It used to be an iconic spell now its a like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Chain heal is my least used spell by far. While I respect your comments I don't think you've played the class enough to understand the issues and problems its having. As you have played a paladin for so long it may be hard to know what its like to be on the bottom. Paladins have been a strong healing class since Wrath and have only gotten stronger and better. You look at a paladin from wrath to now and the changes are staggering. What have shaman gotten changed since wrath? Healing rain and a couple new totems. No one is asking not to adapt play styles most of us have. I used to stack haste forever, then I stacked mastery, now to adapt to fights not being stacked and having to rely on AA more I stack crit. Thats adapting.


It seems you want CH to be what it used to be instead of HR being what it is. CH is good for what it is used for.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10405


Riot no self respecting shaman uses chain heal like we used too. It used to be an iconic spell now its a like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Chain heal is my least used spell by far. While I respect your comments I don't think you've played the class enough to understand the issues and problems its having. As you have played a paladin for so long it may be hard to know what its like to be on the bottom. Paladins have been a strong healing class since Wrath and have only gotten stronger and better. You look at a paladin from wrath to now and the changes are staggering. What have shaman gotten changed since wrath? Healing rain and a couple new totems. No one is asking not to adapt play styles most of us have. I used to stack haste forever, then I stacked mastery, now to adapt to fights not being stacked and having to rely on AA more I stack crit. Thats adapting.


It seems you want CH to be what it used to be instead of HR being what it is. CH is good for what it is used for.


No, I acutally like using my full toolbox to heal. I do believe chain heal could use some tweaking. I enjoy the interaction of riptide and tidal waves. I just think chain heal is the least useful heal in our box atm. What it should be now is our go to spell when HR isn't efficient to use. As you know when HR can't be used we're delegated to casting RT and HW to heal a spread out raid. I think some of the ideas that have been stated in this thread and floated for years should be looked at. My own idea for it would be to increase its range and let it chain RT on two more targets if you chain through a RT.
Edited by Dalistar on 4/5/2013 5:48 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105


It seems you want CH to be what it used to be instead of HR being what it is. CH is good for what it is used for.


I think there's a difference in asking for CH to fill the role that it filled during Cata and asking for it to be like it was in ICC/SWP. It was fine in Cata, and functioned effectively as a filler type spell when you actually wanted to do AoE healing. In MoP, it has been, and still is terrible, excessively situational, and not rewarding enough when executed correctly.

I still hold that the biggest problem with CH is numbers balancing. It just does not heal for enough to warrant the cast time, mana cost, and heavy restrictions around using it correctly. AoE heals when used properly (i.e hitting maximum targets) need to significantly outshine single target heals in terms of either HPM or HPS (often both). Chain Heal just doesn't. It is lower HPM than Healing Wave and it's lower HPS than Healing Surge (and barely more than GHW) even when executed perfectly. In practice, you are also often able to get more mastery benefit from single target heals than Chain Heal, making CH pale even more in comparison. Whether they reduce the mana cost, buff the output (again), or reduce the cast time, something has to give. No other healer has an AoE heal that is as inefficient/weak when used appropriately as CH.

The Riptide requirement to get max throughput is also probably one of the biggest problems with the spell that people don't complain about enough. The issue with the Riptide buff is
(1) You're limited to at most 3 RT targets (unless you glyph it - which is generally acknowledged as a terrible option in most cases). This restricts opportunities to use CH effectively
(2) When you want to use CH, you obviously want to AoE heal, and often want to cast 2-3 in a row. The problem is, if your 1st CH tops off your initial RT target, your RT is on CD, and you have no other appropriate targets to bounce off, you can't effectively use the spell.
(3) You can put RT on a new target, but the execution time to get off a RT-CH is in excess of 3.5 seconds, which is glacially long in today's healing environment. In a 25 man raid, it's highly likely you will get sniped before being able to execute a RT-CH combination.

Without the RT buff, CH is weaker than single target heals, and usually, not worth casting. I think it is just too restrictive and causes frustration more than it adds engaging game play. They probably should consider removing the interaction and making the throughput into the base spell.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
So last night on our heroic Council kill, our Shaman did 17.7 million healing with just Healing Rain. He did 8.6 million healing with Chain Heal and just under 5.6 million healing with Earthliving. His total HPS was 94,347 and though every single one of the healers ranked in that kill, he was the highest out of all of us.

25m and everyone stacked that's easily done:)
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/05/2013 08:10 PMPosted by Totemtown
So last night on our heroic Council kill, our Shaman did 17.7 million healing with just Healing Rain. He did 8.6 million healing with Chain Heal and just under 5.6 million healing with Earthliving. His total HPS was 94,347 and though every single one of the healers ranked in that kill, he was the highest out of all of us.

25m and everyone stacked that's easily done:)


Sure. But when you can make a strat that revolves completely around, "Kill Sul, then EVERYONE get into the Healing Rain," it's a little lulzy.


That was my only point. If you can force your raid to stack, you should do so. Doesn't matter how they have to wing it, it's completely worth it right now in ways it was not worth it in T14.
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90 Troll Shaman
12170
OMG - I was just looking to see how better geared Shaman are doing things...
http://www.wowprogress.com/character/us/sargeras/Incendioo

Now THAT is a mana battery.

OMG - I expanded...
http://www.wowprogress.com/character/eu/blackrock/Gathic

I guess there's truth to Shaman being brought solely for MTT.
Edited by Shaylana on 4/6/2013 4:14 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
04/05/2013 04:12 PMPosted by Tiriel
That was their intent. To make people complain less about meters by slapping on an ill-advised bandaid fix.


Sure. But when you can make a strat that revolves completely around, "Kill Sul, then EVERYONE get into the Healing Rain," it's a little lulzy.


Except that, it's a pretty terrible strategy to have ranged stack up while Mar'lii is still alive, because it will cause Twisted Spirits to do significantly more damage to the raid. Is it really that useful to position in such a way to benefit a resto shaman, when it just results in more damage taken to be healed (as well as probably a higher chance of someone getting gibbed from Charge, etc)?
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