Resto Shaman - Severely Lacking in T15 - Pt 3

100 Blood Elf Priest
12030
Except that, it's a pretty terrible strategy to have ranged stack up while Mar'lii is still alive, because it will cause Twisted Spirits to do significantly more damage to the raid. Is it really that useful to position in such a way to benefit a resto shaman, when it just results in more damage taken to be healed (as well as probably a higher chance of someone getting gibbed from Charge, etc)?

Don't know heroic Council, but "increase damage in a way that also increases healing" can be a viable strat.

It's actually what got us through Ascendant Council in t11. We were getting nowhere on p3 (hpriest/shaman/paladin comp). Then I made a 10-yard square with markers, stacked 2 ranged on each corner, said "Healing Rain that square!" Result: A kill that night, and top-50 overall ranks for all three healers.
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90 Tauren Shaman
15790
04/06/2013 06:03 AMPosted by Kaels
Except that, it's a pretty terrible strategy to have ranged stack up while Mar'lii is still alive, because it will cause Twisted Spirits to do significantly more damage to the raid.


It's actually a pretty good strategy, I've killed it twice with this strat. The AI of the mechanic means it will pick a melee and the furthest ranged, so you stick a couple of ranged in Kenya and the rest stack with healers/tanks and melee on the boss. You AoE heal to buggery and kill the spirits. We didn't even use raid cooldowns during twisted fate wiuth this strat.

Also, Tib, if you gemmed full Int, would you get in trouble with your RL?
Edited by Convictfish on 4/6/2013 6:50 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105


Also, Tib, if you gemmed full Int, would you get in trouble with your RL?


Not if I can justify that it would be better for the raid overall, but I don't think that I can justify that. The estimates that I have seen is that a Shaman running 20,000 SPI over 10,000 SPI is an average throughput buff of 10% to every other healer in the raid (as well as providing much more margin for error during progression attempts). To be able to justify dropping to say 10,000 SPI (I probably would not want to run at less than 12,000) on a 6 healer fight, I would need to be able to increase by personal throughput by 50%. I think that it would go up by maybe 15% at most, meaning that it is signficantly better for the raid as a whole to go full out Spirit. The first thing I would so would be to get rid of these trinkets and go back to T14 heroic trinkets.

I think the fact that the healing team as a whole has higher throughput, longevity and flexibility in a 25 man raid with their Shaman straight up Spirit stacking is the reason why you see the Shaman in BL, Exodus, Method, etc running 20,000+ unbuffed SPI.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Except that, it's a pretty terrible strategy to have ranged stack up while Mar'lii is still alive, because it will cause Twisted Spirits to do significantly more damage to the raid. Is it really that useful to position in such a way to benefit a resto shaman, when it just results in more damage taken to be healed (as well as probably a higher chance of someone getting gibbed from Charge, etc)?


Not really. We always have one out to make sure the other twisted spawns far away. The melee have to stack on top of the spirit regardless, and if we're doing the strat correctly, 20k a second is vapor in terms of damage.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
04/06/2013 06:37 AMPosted by Convictfish
Except that, it's a pretty terrible strategy to have ranged stack up while Mar'lii is still alive, because it will cause Twisted Spirits to do significantly more damage to the raid.


It's actually a pretty good strategy, I've killed it twice with this strat. The AI of the mechanic means it will pick a melee and the furthest ranged, so you stick a couple of ranged in Kenya and the rest stack with healers/tanks and melee on the boss. You AoE heal to buggery and kill the spirits. We didn't even use raid cooldowns during twisted fate wiuth this strat.

Also, Tib, if you gemmed full Int, would you get in trouble with your RL?


Yep, this is what got us our kill. It was a fantastic strat. Put an Spriest out in Kenya, Spriest roots the add pretty much as soon as it spawns, range blow the ranged add up, melee cleave down the melee add.

Thing is, the Twisted Spirits didn't really kill us when we did it right. It was her getting empowered and using Dark Power. That's a raid killer right there.
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
Except that, it's a pretty terrible strategy to have ranged stack up while Mar'lii is still alive, because it will cause Twisted Spirits to do significantly more damage to the raid.


It's actually a pretty good strategy, I've killed it twice with this strat. The AI of the mechanic means it will pick a melee and the furthest ranged, so you stick a couple of ranged in Kenya and the rest stack with healers/tanks and melee on the boss. You AoE heal to buggery and kill the spirits. We didn't even use raid cooldowns during twisted fate wiuth this strat.

Also, Tib, if you gemmed full Int, would you get in trouble with your RL?


That's what we did, except we just had 1 ranged stand out.

Also, why did I never get a heroic emperor trinket from 13 coined heroic kills pre 5.2 and 11 heroic tsulong coined kills ><.
#10man
Edited by Kreyyn on 4/6/2013 10:27 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
15790
#10man


It isn't real raiding, so why would you get real loot?

:P
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90 Troll Shaman
12525
04/07/2013 12:08 AMPosted by Convictfish
#10man


It isn't real raiding, so why would you get real loot?

:P


i emz teh fake riadar
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
I think that this change:

Players with full health no longer count towards the cap for area-of-effect healing abilities and spells.


Is going to be a huge increase to Shaman throughput and end up buffing us more than it buffs any other healer. We suffer more than anyone else from the diminishing returns effect on Healing Rain, so this could be huge.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12030
It's a huge buff in 25. It's a moderate buff in 10m stacked situations. It has zero effect where you're weakest, in 10m spread.
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8 Dwarf Priest
0
yeah after that change, and the previous 20% buff to healing rain, chain heal, and earthliving, i'm not sure "severely" lacking is a good title anymore...
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100 Draenei Shaman
14565
So, overall, I am pretty angry.

Reasons: I heal with a Disc priest and a paladin. Guess how I stack against them when I am trying REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY hard? Not very.

I have NO chance to heal AT ALL.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1279670-Raid-Healer-Composition-Disc-or-Resto-Shaman?p=20621143#post20621143
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7416263494
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1241307-5-2-Shaman-changes

Just a few posts I found....

I may as well just DPS, frankly. My mastery doesn't proc, my crits don't matter due to over healing, and my haste is just a mana drain. I've been SUPER flexible when it comes to optimism. Yet, I am lagging behind dramatically. Is there a reason for this?

***3 year healing shaman*** along with 2 extra years of healing with a priest/druid

Is this just the norm? Should I just quit/reroll to be viable, except for crunch situations?

Anything would be helpful.
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100 Draenei Shaman
14565
yeah after that change, and the previous 20% buff to healing rain, chain heal, and earthliving, i'm not sure "severely" lacking is a good title anymore...


Play a Shaman, then come talk.

When bubble classes just run you into the ground, it's time to find a new class/raid group, because you are no longer functioning.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Play a Shaman, then come talk.

When bubble classes just run you into the ground, it's time to find a new class/raid group, because you are no longer functioning.


You're 3 healing normal modes with a Paladin and a Disc Priest. Your healing is just getting sniped by absorbs, your core functionality of being the emergency healer is still intact, it's just not showing up on the meters.

Seriously, a good Shaman should easily be able to keep up with, if not surpass, a Disc Priest on many high damage fights this tier. Also, Disc Priests are receiving a 20% nerf to Atonement in 5.3 while you're receiving a rather substantial mechanical buff to HR, so stop complaining.
Edited by Ceddya on 4/13/2013 3:12 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
I'd throw in a "if your group can 2-heal, they... probably *should* 2-heal".

Doesn't mean you're the weakest link and have to be the one to go dps; means that *one* of the healers should re-assign themselves.

3-healing most 10man fights is overhealing (hey, my guild 3-heals almost everything. I'm not being all elitist and judgemental about anyone whose raid 3-heals 2-healable fights; it's just a fact). If your raid is good enough to be able to 2-heal (ie, strong healers, and *smart* dps'ers who can do mechanics properly to not create more healing than is necessary), then it's time to adjust!
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12030
I'd add an "if your role in the raid is "that dude who heals all the extra damage so that we can clear content we probably shouldn't be able to", then own that role. Be the best healer-of-stupid you can possibly be. But understand that to an extent, your healing output is going to be limited by the amount of stupid your raid can produce without oneshotting themselves."
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90 Draenei Shaman
12770
yep!
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Maybe if Blizz allows the Earthliving HoT to stack in power and then added something like:

Ripple
Spreads your active Earthliving heal over time spells to allies within 15 yards.

Could be interesting and have some synergy with the Shaman toolkit. Not too familiar with Resto Shaman healing though.
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Seriously, a good Shaman should easily be able to keep up with, if not surpass, a Disc Priest on many high damage fights this tier. Also, Disc Priests are receiving a 20% nerf to Atonement in 5.3 while you're receiving a rather substantial mechanical buff to HR, so stop complaining.
That's a buff to the very spell that doesn't do anything when spread healing. If anything this buff just makes it more likely that Blizzard will succumb to the temptation to do a DS and make a few fights, or a whole raid, that allow or require stacking, so that Shamans will have 'their' fight and thus can be told to shut up. Not that DS was that great for Shamans, because Paladin AoE healing got 'fixed' in the DS patch and as a result they were even better, while still being better at tank healing and having better mana efficiency while spread healing. Still, at least Shamans weren't simply horrible for a tier.
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I'd add an "if your role in the raid is "that dude who heals all the extra damage so that we can clear content we probably shouldn't be able to", then own that role. Be the best healer-of-stupid you can possibly be. But understand that to an extent, your healing output is going to be limited by the amount of stupid your raid can produce without oneshotting themselves."
In my experience in that role, the Disc Priest still pre-empts a lot of that healing, or the Monk just does one of their OMG heals and it lands faster (maybe I'm just slow). Also, bomb-healing stupid drains mana like crazy, and in my raid moves me from having better mana longevity than the Priest (but far, far less output) than to being worse (and still having less output). Perhaps Shamans are just a poor combination with Disc and Monks, but that would imply also being a poor fit with Druids, and that doesn't leave a lot of good comps.
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