Atonement Nerf, No buff to compensate? (PVE)

90 Pandaren Priest
14930
That's because Holy Priest and Monks are probably the highest output healers right now. Unfortunate, Resto Druids come no where close to the amount of sustained and burst healing a Holy Priest can bring.

There's no real advantage to having 2 Discs in the raid for most fights this tier (or even 1 Disc for the latter half of ToT, barring Dark Animus), and your other Priest will be much better off as Holy.


That entirely depends on your strat. I've tried to put out feelers about going Holy, but most of the time they want Pain Suppression, Barrier, and Spirit Shell, not extra healing. And a Druid brings Ironbark, which isn't Guardian Spirit.

Still, the Atonement nerf isn't entirely unjustified as it does too much healing and damage for very little effort. Compensation in the form of modifying the T15 bonuses to benefit Disc more or by reverting IF to its older state of double healing + guaranteed DA would be nice though.


Doubt we'll see that.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8940
Head on over to the PTR forums and fight this nonsense!!! We cannot let them ruin disc!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16920
They don't want us to shield spam they didn't like us prayer of healing spam and now they don't like us atonement healing so how does blizz want disc to heal.
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90 Human Priest
13720
They don't want us to shield spam they didn't like us prayer of healing spam and now they don't like us atonement healing so how does blizz want disc to heal.


Well... it seems they want us to do a bit of everything. They want us to use more of our toolkit in more varied ways. Tbh atonement spam is REALLY REALLY boring, I'd rather be doing something else at almost any given time but currently it's too effective for a lot of reasons. I'm not too upset about the changes. Then again, I really don't care what healing spec I play either... I just play disc predominantly because currently it seems to be almost always the better choice.
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90 Troll Priest
15750
Is this even on the PTR? Nothing in the real notes indicates it.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Is this even on the PTR? Nothing in the real notes indicates it.


Yes, considering Ghostcrawler is talking about the nerf on Twitter...
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16920
They give us the ability the ability to heal by doing damage which is better than our single target heals without the 3 stacks of grace and Blizz wonders why players use that method.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
They don't want us to shield spam they didn't like us prayer of healing spam and now they don't like us atonement healing so how does blizz want disc to heal.


Key word there is spam. They don't want us spamming any one type of healing. The goal is to get Disc Priests to stop relying on one or two mechanics and start using their entire toolkit.

They give us the ability the ability to heal by doing damage which is better than our single target heals without the 3 stacks of grace and Blizz wonders why players use that method.


I really don't think they're wondering why we use that. They understand why and they're fixing it.
Edited by Elethia on 4/2/2013 11:02 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
13720
The goal is to get Disc Priests to stop relying on one or two mechanics and start using their entire toolkit.


Oh god PLEASE MAKE IT SO.
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90 Human Priest
16785
04/02/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Tsilyi
That's 40.5% of my Healing from Atonement. Assuming a minimum of 40.5% of my Divine Aegis was caused by Atonement, that's another 7.776%.


I'm not sure that's how you math. You'd be replacing a pretty decent amount of that atonement healing with other healing at the same crit %...

also @twistedmind: in your comparison I noticed you listed smite vs. heal before evangelism stacks. Have you also considered how simple it is to keep up a 5 stack of evangelism purely through solace/penance and the mana saved at that point as well? I know the heal will be less if this change goes through but smite is also going to be more than 0 damage as well. any damage is useful in addition to the heal it will do (especially at the reduced mana cost with 5x Evangelism)

Yup, that's where my head is when comes to actually playing. I was just pointing out in theoretical space that a nerf to throughput in one spell shifts the ratio of how good that is comparatively to other spells. I'm not going to finish the full analysis on how getting just enough spirit for heal spam and just enough spirit for atonement spam compares. We're still at too low of an ilevel to see a drastic enough gap, and I don't think we'll reach an ilevel where that kind of play will be viable in this xpac if the next raid is the last raid.

But don't worry, I'll still be spamming atonement spells, even after a 20% nerf.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16920
Unless they scrap grace and buff our single target heals atonement is better.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14930
Key word there is spam. They don't want us spamming any one type of healing. The goal is to get Disc Priests to stop relying on one or two mechanics and start using their entire toolkit.


Even with this nerf, there's no reason for me to ever spam Heal. And Greater Heal is too slow to be of any real use in a 25 man, even if I'm tank healing. I already use Flash Heal and Binding Heal when necessary.
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90 Human Priest
14170
04/01/2013 04:41 PMPosted by Lothrik
I believe this is moreso to offset our gear scaling. As we gain a ton more ilvls atonement is getting carried away and with 5.3 also comes item upgrades. If anything atonement healing will still be about the same as it is currently.


But.. they already gutted our scaling. That's what the Divine Aegis change did. Do we really need our scaling to get nerfed every major patch?


If you value DPS at all (which you should; do enough and you could add another healer) then Atonement's scaling is sky-high.
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90 Goblin Priest
10205
I really don't get the argument that GC and CO want Disc priests to use "more" of their toolkit.

At least from a 10 man perspective I use all of my toolkit liberally. Even on fights that favor AA, such as Horridon, I am shielding both tanks liberally, sprinkling in Cascade, FL, BH, and PoM when needed. Granted AA is a large part of my healing on that fight due to the damage modifier on the boss and AA is very effective at selecting low health targets due to the nature of the spell mechanics.

The only issue I see is that it is a very efficient way to heal with relatively low overheal and snipes other healers. So again, I guess Disc priests are running into issues making other healers look bad (if that is even a valid concern) and doing so being very efficiently.

At the end of the day, I will continue to play how I normally do, using all the tools in my kit to get the job done. In my view while a nerf doesn't feel good per se, I think it will just cut down on the limited overheal of AA and the associated crit DA that can proc due to it and we'll be in roughly the same situation that we are in now.

The more troubling aspect to all of this IMO is that the devs and GC keep meddling with Disc priests numbers and it just does not feel good when that is the case. It definitely gives me the impression that they are not sure how to balance and deal with the spec, and given the huge overhaul and numbers adjustment in 5.2, anytime they decide to change things, I get nervous.

~M
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
04/02/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Elethia
They don't want us to shield spam they didn't like us prayer of healing spam and now they don't like us atonement healing so how does blizz want disc to heal.


Key word there is spam. They don't want us spamming any one type of healing. The goal is to get Disc Priests to stop relying on one or two mechanics and start using their entire toolkit.


Disc spells just don't compliment each other well enough, in my opinion. As long as one style of healing is better than the other, priests will always lean toward that. Last patch, it was a lot of PoH, this patch it's a lot of atonement.

My main problem with this change is that it doesn't actually make anything else in our kit more appealing. We're still going to be using atonement at the same times and we're still going to be using raw healing/shields at the same times. If they wanted to change up disc healing, this wasn't the right way to do it.

Unrelated but I doubt any 10man priests are actually going to go holy. The DPS from disc is way too valuable even if they aren't doing top HPS.
Edited by Noxnzee on 4/2/2013 3:11 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16920
They made atonement a passive for disc in MoP then increased the range to 40 yards and buffed penance along with the 4 piece T14 and complain that atonement use is to high.
The other option is not use it and use our gimped non grace stacked regular heals.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
You're on a roll saying basically the same thing over and over again, Nerine. This is a fluid game. Changes are made frequently—and you have to consider the context of the changes.

In this case, tweaks and additions meant for both PvE and PvP have combined with the current tier's encounter design and resulting in Atonement faring too well—to the extent where its healing contribution is higher than desired by the developers. The good thing is that they're not breaking our ability to heal with their changes. They're simply trying to lower Atonement's healing potential—and the result is likely going to be a very minor drop in our healing.

Nor is the game so black and white that the only two options are "use Atonement to excess" and "never use Atonement". The goal should be to use it during light damage and to stack Evangelism for Archangel use. If you have a complaint about our single target healing strengths, or with the Grace mechanic specifically (many of us do), address that in a separate thread.
Edited by Elethia on 4/2/2013 4:32 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Priest
7980
You're on a roll saying basically the same thing over and over again, Nerine. This is a fluid game. Changes are made frequently—and you have to consider the context of the changes.

In this case, tweaks and additions meant for both PvE and PvP have combined with the current tier's encounter design and resulting in Atonement faring too well—to the extent where its healing contribution is higher than desired by the developers. The good thing is that they're not breaking our ability to heal with their changes. They're simply trying to lower Atonement's healing potential—and the result is likely going to be a very minor drop in our healing.

Nor is the game so black and white that the only two options are "use Atonement to excess" and "never use Atonement". The goal should be to use it during light damage and to stack Evangelism for Archangel use. If you have a complaint about our single target healing strengths, or with the Grace mechanic specifically (many of us do), address that in a separate thread.


I feel bad for people you have debates with.
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