The Horde Rebellion (Warning: loooooong)

100 Human Hunter
12165
(That felt nerdy and good. Mmmmmmhm.)


It well thought out and articulated. It was a good read which sums up why Garrosh needs to die quite eloquently.
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100 Pandaren Monk
17460
Excellent post OP. I wholeheartedly agree with this viewpoint. But the history of war is written by the survivors, and Garrosh will always be looked at as a tyrant.
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88 Gnome Warrior
0
Great read. Hope people actually read all of it. Especially the part about Vol'jin threatening to murder Garrosh.

Once that Mana Bomb dropped, Garrosh was beyond redemption.


Why was it then? Theramore involved itself in the war, a retaliation should have been expected.

Garrosh didn't do anything bad in game until 5.1.
Edited by Scoot on 3/31/2013 9:14 AM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
19630
If you want to say Garrosh is the Horde personified, you would be right - The Horde was made as a demonic army meant to eradicate all life on Azeroth.

But the New Horde is not that, and has never been that. And Garrosh is spitting all over everything his fathr died for.
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90 Troll Shaman
6980
Garrosh is just plain evil. He's not doing what he's doing for anyone else, he just hates anyone that isn't an orc.


This is 100% wrong.
But I understand why you are confused. The fall of garrosh (why he went evil) is not found in game-- its in the wow books.

Facts that are not in game-
Durotar for 3 Xpac was completely fine -- but in the books its a waste land with no food and the Orcs are starving..

The Orcs asked for help and some farm land in ashenvale---- the elves said "No"

Garrosh sees Thrall as weak due to letting his own people starve in order to keep peace with the alliance.

Garrosh will do anything to save His people.

This is how garrosh feels about the other Horde races-
"This is the difference between me and you, Vol'jin. I won't let MY people starve to death in the desert. I will stop at nothing - NOTHING - to ensure a proud and glorious future for the orcs and anyone with the courage to stand with us"

Garrosh has the same flaws and strengths as Arthas.

http://media.blizzard.com/wow/media/fanart/fanart-1092-full.jpg
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100 Tauren Druid
19630
Let no one forget the Blood Oath of the Horde, as players in Northrend teach the Taunka when they are sworn in. Every member of the Horde has taken this vow:

Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.
I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
From this moment until the end of days I live and die - FOR THE HORDE!


You forget Thrall was Warchief during Northrend. And Thrall never treated his people as tools or fodder
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11910
03/31/2013 09:13 AMPosted by Scoot
Once that Mana Bomb dropped, Garrosh was beyond redemption.


Why was it then? Theramore involved itself in the war, a retaliation should have been expected.

Garrosh didn't do anything bad in game until 5.1.


Retaliation, sure. Wiping a city (and all its citizens, whether they were military or not, as well as whatever of his troops didn't make it out in time, or worse, had no clue a mana bomb was being dropped in the first place) from existence in all timelines is far beyond retaliation.
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100 Human Mage
13185
As a mainly Alliance player, as soon at the bomb dropped, there was no going back. Sure, lore-wise the Orcs might've been starving, but that is no reason to basically start a war that he cannot feed, or keep up. If I ever get to the Siege of Orgrimmar, he's a dead man.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13930
One of the greatest walls of text i've ever seen.
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90 Undead Warlock
6385
tl;dr:

i has power, i abuse power.

i get overthrown at end, oops dead
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100 Worgen Hunter
10800
I'd like to point out that Theramore was NOT an active military port. It mostly served as an Alliance supply line, the only major one on the Eastern side of Kalimdor. They did not launch any major campaigns against the Horde from Theramore. The only reason they had a standing military was to defend themselves from Horde or pirate aggression.
And people are forgetting one major portion of the story: Northwatch Hold. Yeah, remember that? Remember when he risked a second Cataclysm by commanding dark Shaman to force their will on molten elementals? Because he did. He literally risked to lives of thousands, possibly millions, Horde and Alliance alike. He risked the earth itself rising up against them all just because the Alliance had the audacity to try to hold a fort on "Horde soil" (even though the Horde has done worse than trying to hold a base on Alliance and even neutral territory).

And to the defenders: don't kid yourself. He's a horrible tyrant and you know it. He's gladly risked the lives of non-orcs because he sees every other race as inferior, even Tauren. He was willing to throw the entirety of the Forsaken forces into the grinding mill that was the Greymane Wall because it meant his Orcs could run in, trampling on Forsaken corpses, unscathed. He was more than willing to commit genocide on the Pandaren in the Jade Forest because they chose not to give the Horde aid, instead wanting to remain neutral.
I'm also convinced if Varian was doing this stuff the Horde would have absolutely no qualms in crying "tyrant". Heck, I consider the Horde pretty lucky they are getting all the attention. This game has always had a biased towards the Horde, so they're getting the interesting story development. The Alliance could have had an amazing story when the Draenei were considering leaving after the Burning Crusade was conquered. It could have been a great chapter in lore, but what happened to it? It got limited to a short little story hosted on the website only, with absolutely no nod or hint at it in game. Whereas the Horde has entire books, literally, focusing on the Horde, and in particular, this subject of Garrosh and the Horde's direction.
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100 Goblin Warlock
16235
Excellent post, Drazhul! What a well written, educational glimpse into the history of Garrosh Hellscream and all that has led to his present-day turmoil.

Personally, I hold a bittersweet view of Garrosh.

I have long admired his genuine passion that he has for the Horde. Though his methods have been questionable (and often are), it is impossible not to admire his outright refusal to be an Alliance appeaser.

Garrosh is, in every sense, the true Warchief of the Horde.
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
Why was it then? Theramore involved itself in the war, a retaliation should have been expected.

Garrosh didn't do anything bad in game until 5.1.

First of all, Garrosh shouldn't have started the war in the first place. There are other places than Ashenvale to gather lumber. Azshara, Grizzly Hills, Silverpine, he didn't have to start a war to get wood.

And it became counterproductive. When he started the war for lumber, he needed more lumber to fuel his war. So he wars for even more lumber, which he spends on his war. And so he starts using all of his resources in the war, and then he needs to war some more to make up for those resources. It's a never ending cycle.

I'm not arguing Theramore wasn't a legit target, but that Mana Bomb scarred the land and disrupted the flow of magic. That could have been another beacon for the Legion. It could allow something to pass through dimensions or timelines and wreck the place. Not to mention, it was a very, very painful way to die for everyone involved.
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100 Worgen Hunter
10800
I'm not arguing Theramore wasn't a legit target, but that Mana Bomb scarred the land and disrupted the flow of magic. That could have been another beacon for the Legion. It could allow something to pass through dimensions or timelines and wreck the place. Not to mention, it was a very, very painful way to die for everyone involved.

There was also absolutely no honor in the act. He's preached so damn much about fighting like a warrior and dying a warrior's death. He respects everyone if they hold true to that creed, even Alliance. If someone dies in battle near him he honor's their death because its one of the most glorified things in his mind. And then he turns around and takes a huge dump on it with the mana bomb. There is nothing honorable about killing that many people without being there in the moment. There is nothing honorable about taking an idea he's seen somewhere else, then saying "let's steal this ancient, precious artifact and power one of these things up". There's nothing honorable about claiming it was all his idea. There's nothing honorable about claiming all those deaths were at his hands, when he wasn't on the zeppelin or even remotely close to it. He has become everything he hates: honorless. He deserves what's coming to him. I will take insane pleasure riddling him with bullets, planting his head on a pike, and driving Theramore's flag into his body again, and again, and again. Honor or death? He's chosen death, and I will be more than happy to satisfy that wish.
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90 Undead Death Knight
12485
I'd like to point out that Theramore was NOT an active military port. It mostly served as an Alliance supply line, the only major one on the Eastern side of Kalimdor.


It was his intent to make war with the Alliance, which makes Theramore a very important military target. When the US and the UN began their War on Terror, the first targets were 1) the regions which provided supplies and 2) the regions which would cause the most initial fuss.

They're killing off the last of the "true Orcs" to appease the simpletons who prefer that the race behaves as if "green-humans", rather than as Orcs -- and for that, you can blame Metzen, who would rather have his preferred characters (Thrall, /vomit) in the limelight rather than the right characters.
Edited by Fyorsing on 3/31/2013 2:46 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Shaman
17505
Feels like the OP didn't read Wolfheart, Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects or Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War.
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90 Orc Shaman
10210
Exactly my thoughts aside from the Vol'Jin part, they just didn't get along and always seemed to need to dook it out.
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58 Troll Death Knight
3825
Ya, Mon! End dat evil Garrosh! Make 'I'm suffah!
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