Bank in the Red

3 Troll Mage
Hello forums! I’ve come across some issues/concerns, and I’d love to hear any feedback that you can offer!

I’m a morale officer for the guild. I don’t actively raid, I don’t pvp, and I will help with 5-mans and scenarios only if someone asks. I do a lot of farming for the guild, feast mats, flowers, ores, etc. I keep an eye on gchat, diffuse potential situations, and try to always bring a smile to everyone’s face by keeping a positive attitude.

One issue our guild currently has is that there is a lot of gold going out of the guild bank via repairs, but not a lot coming in. There is weeks that we don’t do all the scenarios or dungeons for the extra gold because no one wants to do them. The other officers and myself have talked about removing repairs except for raid nights, as well as limiting the amount but having it available every day. These would normally work in most situations, but it is one of the features that drew some of our raiders into the guild, and I worry about potential unhappiness/drama (there are a few restless people already, and I fear this change will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back).

We’ve also discussed having people donate things like flowers, ores, fish, etc., but we find ourselves using the mats more than actually selling them, so that doesn’t really help our income (and the contributions are fairly minimal, and from only a handful of people). Also any of the BoE’s or craftables we have are not selling (our server is dying a slow painful death). The other officers and myself donate gold pretty regularly, but that’s also something we can’t keep up. And we don’t like the idea of asking our guildies to donate gold because a lot of them struggle to just stay around 5k for themselves. We don’t want to add pressure by saying “hey everyone, can you donate 100g to the bank this week? Kthx!”

I’d like to offer an incentive of some sort to donate, even if the only thing that is donated are raw materials. We use a loot council/open roll system for our loot, so I can’t use DKP as an incentive. I’ve thought about using pets (like the raid pets, or zandalari raptor pets), but the drops on those can be finnicky, and to be fair, we would probably get more gold selling those pets than using them as an incentive >.> I’ve also thought about using a potion of luck as a “thank you” for donating…while the donation may be larger than the worth of the potion, it would still be something everyone can appreciate.

Is there anything else that I can use to get my guildies to contribute more?

One thing I’ve been tinkering with, and I haven’t brought this up to the other officers yet, is the idea of a raffle. Maybe for a rare pet like the Living Sandling, or for a mechano hog or vial of the sands, etc. For anyone who donates 100g they get their name in the raffle to win the item. A person can donate as much as they want, with each 100g giving them another entry. At the end of the month, we draw the winning ticket, and whoever’s name gets pulled, gets the item. I’d probably do 1 mount, 1 of the rarer pets (living sandling, spawn of g’nathus, etc), and then 3-5 of the raid pets. Maybe throw in a stack or two of 300 stat buff food, etc. For anyone who didn’t win anything, they would get a potion of luck.

Has anyone ever had any success with something this? I like the idea in theory, lol! I’m just a bit unsure as to how it would play out, or even if the people in my guild would want to participate in it.

If anyone has any additional things they do to help get their guildies to donate, please let me know!
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
I have some issues with gold going down due to the giant repair tab on raid nights, especially during weeks when people are just not up to dungeons, but when that happens I will sell something to bump it back up.

Stop donating gold to pay for people's repairs. That's retarded.

What you can do:

Set up a night or time-frame when the guild will do dungeon and scenario guild groups to make sure they are done. If they don't like that then do the achieves; everyone loves them.

Limit repairs to what they would spend on a raid night. 200g for example.

Sell Blood Spirits. Set up an easy raid like MV to collect them if necessary.

Sell expensive enchants that require Sha Crystals. Make guildies donate the Sha Crystals.

Sell pets that are cheap but hard to get, like Pengu.

Sell the new crafted Blacksmithing items. Encourage guildies to donate them to the GB, then sell them. (But ensure they know this in advance.)

Use your MOTD to ask for whatever donation you need: 100g, Golden Lotus, Sha Crystal, etc.

Don't use the GB to buy things for members or for the leadership.

Don't buy anything with GB money period except for paying for the repairs, the rationing of which is up to you.

If your guild is a good raiding guild, you can run PUGs through raids for a fee.

Sell the patterns that drop in MV and HoF.
Edited by Hespler on 4/2/2013 11:37 AM PDT
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58 Dwarf Death Knight
I would generally rather lose a perk than gain a tax / obligation. So I'd rather see cash flow issues solved by reducing spending rather than guilting me into donating time, materials, or gold to the bank. The nagging or unequal contributions would embitter me quickly. Similarly, some people like raffles and other gambling activities, but others do not find them enjoyable. You can do them, but don't guilt people into participating.

In my experience, people are most attached to free repairs when they've been wiping all night. So I think the least painful way to solve your issue is to severely limit repairs outside of raid time, and see if that works for your guild. If you have a large non-raiding contingency, they might resent repair funds being channeled to raiders, so you might want to set up some kind of system where raiders get much higher repair limits than others during raids, but others get somewhat higher repair limits than raiders outside of raids. You can set up a macro to make those changes to reduce the annoyance to the guild master.

Scheduling an optional scenario or dungeon night is also a nice idea, but the focus of that night should be more on enjoying the activity and camaraderie rather than on maxing out the value of the cash flow perk.
Edited by Baesil on 4/2/2013 2:06 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
The other officers and myself have talked about removing repairs except for raid nights

This is a perfectly reasonable idea. There's no reason to pay for guildies repairs for things that aren't pushing forward a guild's goals. Our repairs are set at 250g on raid nights (and only for "raider" rank players). I'd much rather have 750g total over three nights than 100g every night of the week.
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90 Orc Warrior
1) Shut down guild repairs

2) Stop giving your raiders free pots/flasks/feasts

3) Encourage people to do guild challenges
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90 Human Paladin
I will help with 5-mans and scenarios only if someone asks.

Stop waiting for people to ask! Start up groups yourself!

Identify who in the guild is good at getting others to come with them to 5mans/scenarios/LFR; do people really like going with one of the tanks, or a particular healer, because those folks make for smooth runs? Try to whisper those folks about doing instances/scenarios/LFR together, and then ask in guild who wants to go along. You only need 3 to make it a guild run in the non-raid content.

If you are the morale officer, and your job is making people feel good about being a part of this guild, part of that should come from running guild-focused activities that get people to have fun together while also achieving guild goals.

Try some alt-run evenings; if people are leveling, try to get them into dungeons together for achievements, exp, rep, transmog items, etc. This will also help the guild goals.

Identify guild achievements the guild is close to getting and post about it, encouraging people to help meet the goals--particularly if those guild achievements have a reward that guildmates can then access. Organize groups to meet some of those goals if possible (like fishing extravaganza nights to work a guild fishing achievement, while also getting stuff for the bank; way more fun as a group than solo!).

Be frank about the lack of incoming to the GB and how that's going to impact the guild. If you decide to restrict or turn off guild repairs on non-Raid nights, that's something they're going to have to understand is due to their own lack of activity. Don't be afraid to reduce the number of feasts/flasks/etc being handed out either.

The only donations you should really ask about are materials for feasts and flasks. Don't demand it, or require it--not at first, if this is a new thing--but do encourage it and specify that it helps out the guild as a whole; public thanks for the folks that give stuff to the GB can go a long way.

My tiny guild has a few raiders, and I keep the repair limit pretty tight, even for the raiders on raid nights. We don't often get dungeon and scenario runs done as a guild, so our cash flow comes mainly from people doing quests and dailies. We also take things sitting in the bank for a long time and sell as much as possible on the AH when tabs are getting full. Even if it sells for little, it's cash that all goes back to the GB.

We do however, run old school raid evening, have weekly RP meetings, and occasional "fight nights" as a guild, among other activities together. We help each other with random silly things, and ask in channels for assistance on rares, quests, dailies, old content, and instances.

Officers often have to lead the way for that, and draw people out, letting them know it's safe, accepted, and expected to ask for help and just simple companionship through the game!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
I worry about potential unhappiness/drama (there are a few restless people already, and I fear this change will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back).

If this causes them to leave then maybe they were not that loyal to you and your guild in the first place

Simply tell everyone they have two choices.. do more to earn gold for the guild bank or the repair allotment for each guildie will be cut or even eliminated.

Just be real honest with everyone. Frankly it sounds like you have the amount set up too high.
It is easy to earn gold now esp if your level capped. helping with repairs is nice.. but helping should not mean you have to pay 100% of their repair bill

They have to be responsible for some of the repair bill either by paying it out them selves or by contributing gold in some way to the guild bank.. the easiest way is to run your scenarios each week. if they are too lazy to do that, then they do not deserve having the guild fund their repair bills
Edited by Ssinfull on 4/2/2013 4:24 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
If its a problem just leave it for raid nights, not random other deaths
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90 Night Elf Druid
If the guild can't give out a perk off the 'natural' income, then it shouldn't offer the perk. Putting in a lot of effort to get people to donate money so that the guild can pay for their repairs just doesn't make any sense - why not just have them donate the money directly by doing their own repairs and cut out the guild bank entirely? You're asking people to waste their time either by pointlessly moving gold from their bank to the guild bank, or by farming and donating to pay for the repairs of people who don't.
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90 Draenei Shaman
If you're guild wants repairs then they should also be giving to the guild as a whole. You can offer them a choice - either do the challenges and donate or start paying you're own way. Take a vote and see how people feel. They may suddenly be inspired to do the guild challenges to raise money. Only offer guild repairs during guild sponsored activities until you have the funds to open them up totally if that's what you want to do.

They may also decide that they don't want to do all that extra work and pay for the repairs themselves which will solve your problem.

One thing a guild I was in did that I really liked was 'farming day'. You got the guild to show up and hunt down all the mats you needed and gather as much as you could. You took what you needed for the week, then sold the rest on AH. The profit goes back into the guild bank to pay for things like repairs, and it provides the members with things like food and flasks.

I've also seen a rank created for all those who help with the guild. Those would be the people who make sure the guild challenges are done for the week (with in reason - if you don't have a RBG team obviously you aren't going to get that done, or if you only do PvP obviously you aren't going to get the raid one done). Also included are people who show up for farm days and/or give mats to the bank to either use or sell for guild money. Which allows a clear distinction. People are free not to participate and pay for what they need. Those that want to participate get repairs. As long as no one is punished for their choice I've seen this work well.

Until your bank can support your repairs you can't offer them so don't.
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90 Night Elf Priest
I tell my guildees to just donate what they can, when they can. Even if it is a bunch of low level items, those can still be sold. I even grab the stuff and DE it, sell the mats on my disenchanter. I have a supply officer and a bank manager who makes sure that the guild bank keeps up in its gold and items, and like my supply officer managers the profession items, so lets say the bank needs more leather, she will go to the one in charge of providing the guild with its leather and says "hey, we need this: if the guild is getting low on Gold then she tells the guildees "we are getting low on gold, can people donate some gold to help us continue helping you guys out?" My bank manager and I always consistently challeneg each other where guildees could see it. For instance today my bank manager said "Lara, I put in 2k gold total today in the guild bank. You gotta match me" But then I will turn around farm double tha tto show him up in a friendly way. and then he will double it, I found doin this the other guild members will chime in and start donating the gold to and join in this friendly "donation" game, when really it has a hidden agenda, they try to beat the bank manager and put in more gold then him or more gold then me. It is both fun and exciting for me and my guild, and they know we are just turning the donations into a game! I also have farming days, where they might go and farm...Ore, and all the ore they famr that day goes into the bank, the one who did the most ore that day, gets a prize! But the ore turns around and gets sold. I was able to input 5k gold into a guild bank when we did that. or we might say "we need low level boe greens for de mats...go farm it today" its a choice, but a fun day where everyone takes part. You could try stuff like that. Turn it into a fun game ,in won because you got what you wanted by doing something like that, the guild...was just taking part in something you were doing. I do agree with telling them if they cant put towards their repairs then they should not get any. Tell them even 1 copper piece will accumulate.
Edited by Larabeth on 4/12/2013 11:11 AM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
My guild ran into the same issue a few months ago. The way it was set up was, every rank had a daily repair amount, ranging from 50 to 200 or so gold.

The thing is, the upper ranks tend to be established players, doing end game, and with the guild in a slow down, people were pugging other raid groups or LFR, and using guild repairs.

Our solution (well, my solution) - no officer rank gets repairs paid for, until we get back into regular guild runs to generate a steady income. I prefer the lower ranked, newer players, get help with repairs, rather than players with 100k or more stashed away.

It stabilized things for us, with no complaints. Plus, our bank officer has been using the ah to dispose of surplus or unwanted/used items, putting us waaaaaaaaaay back into a postive cash flow.

Mind you, we also have 125k in the bank, so, clearly our server economy isn't terrible, either.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
I had this problem for a while, because dungeons were stale and people didn't want to do them. but we needed the income to support repairs.

I have a script that toggles guild repairs on and off every monday night I turn them off, I turn them back on as soon as i see 7 complete "pay outs" either scenarios, 5mans or w/e. Sure enough after the first raid night with no repairs the following week they were running scenarios as groups and 5 mans as groups which was good for the guild over all.

it's a carrot and stick thing.
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87 Tauren Druid
I had this problem for a while, because dungeons were stale and people didn't want to do them. but we needed the income to support repairs.

I have a script that toggles guild repairs on and off every monday night I turn them off, I turn them back on as soon as i see 7 complete "pay outs" either scenarios, 5mans or w/e. Sure enough after the first raid night with no repairs the following week they were running scenarios as groups and 5 mans as groups which was good for the guild over all.

it's a carrot and stick thing.

I really like that idea. Of course, my guild is still so small that we don't offer ANY repairs, but I will definitely be keeping this in mind for future reference.
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90 Tauren Druid
Our gbank had a steady inflow of cash for a long time. We started with a small repair amount for officers, raiders, and members. We continued to grow in cash flow, and gradually upped it 25g at a time and added repairs for ranks. We watched to see how the cash flow in balanced with cash flow out.

One night the repairs were higher than usual on a raid, and we upped the total amount. This is when we had to have scenario runs to keep the total steady. Some people wanted to do them, and that was fine. However, now with doing them so much and spring/summer activities, our cash flow began to drop. I am dropping the total repair back a little at a time by increments of 25g starting with alts, but I'm checking the gbank to see which ranks are using it the most. We'll have repairs, but they will be balanced with the cash inflow.

Also, the makeup of your guild makes a difference. If your guild is composed of raiders, then your cash outflow for repairs is higher per player. If you have people who like to solo play doing quests, or achievements or whatever, they contribute to cash inflow without using much from guild repairs.

Guild repairs are a nice perk, but people who care about others, about raiding, about the guild will not so concerned if they need to pay for some repairs. Anyone who is in a guild only for what they can get for themselves is not someone I would allow in my guild.
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90 Night Elf Priest
Since our ranks are based partly on level, the guild repairs amounts are also set at what would cover the average single repair at that level range per day. So if you are between levels 1 and 20 you will not have guild repairs. If you are between levels 20 and 50, guild repairs are set at 1g. Levels 60-75 5gold, level 80-90 10 gold. Raiders are set to 20gold per day for non raid nights. 100g on raid nights. While raiding helps the guild it also helps the individual. Guild repairs are to supplement not provide the total amount. This helps encourage people to work together and not wipe because they might have to take money out of their own pocket if they exceed their limit. My officers get 25g per day on non-raid nights to compensate them for the additional work they do to help keep the guild running. If they are in the raid they get a rank change to raider for the evening. If not, they get their normal guild repair. I have one group of 3 people who started at level 15 doing dungeons and questing together. They make sure we meet our dungeon challenges each week. They are looking to become our second regular scenario team as well. This means the same 3 people won't have to do 15 scenarios each week. Our goal is to have 3 scenarios team each doing 5 a week. At level 60, I have yet to have any one of them use more than 1gold for repairs. If you're going broke, then you have to find out where you are losing the money and cut it off. Remind people that the guild bank funds are everyone's responsibility and if they want to continue having the perk of guild repairs they have to contribute to the balance or guild repairs will be discontinued until the guild members build up the balance enough to support it. You can't and shouldn't be trying to make money appear from nowhere.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
If its a problem just leave it for raid nights, not random other deaths

This right here.

We were bleeding gold due to people using repairs for -everything-
Started turning them on when the raid starts and after the raid is over.
Still losing a bit weekly due to two 10 man teams progressing however 1-2k a week is better than 4-6k
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