The increasing memory demands of raids

90 Orc Shaman
13750
I can't really get behind the OP. Maybe it's just from raiding a lot.

One major thing, too - lots of people don't bother to memorize or interact with mechanics that have nothing to do with their role. On Shek'zeer, for example, I glanced at Diffusion once and then never looked at it again because it has nothing to do with me as melee. You could argue a raid leader should know all of it, but the raid leader hopefully isn't working entirely by himself - he's got officers and/or role leaders and everyone for whom Mechanic X does matter.
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97 Gnome Mage
14450
Sigh I was always a firm believer in the KISS principle. Often times simpler really is better.
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90 Troll Druid
15200
Simpler fights with less mechanics would appeal to pugs and less organized raiders. But I have a feeling both normals and heroics are aimed at veteran players who have seen it all before and now need a complicated melange of mechanics to keep them challenged. With LFR virtually all the mechanics are still there, its just most of them are so nerfed you can mostly ignore them.

I can't really get behind the OP. Maybe it's just from raiding a lot.

You're definitely not the demographic OP is addressing. But anyhow I think OP does underestimate the ability of people of even average capabilities to adapt to complexity. However the more complexity the more things that can go wrong, the less room for error. Current fights are probably right at the limit of where normal should be, and maybe have exceeded them.
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100 Human Paladin
13565
I definitely am in favour of cool mechanics like doing the dance on Will of the Emperor (which ranged/healers don't have to worry about), and lighting up tiles on heroic Stone Guard (which tanks don't have to worry about), or even things like kicking turtles.

Those kind of mechanics are great. Where things fall flat is on a fight like Lei Shen, in my opinion. There are too many little mechanics, and having 4 platforms full of mechanics that all do different things, and then additional mechanics in phase 3, is a little bit much.

And for the Light's sake, no more tornadoes! Something that moves fast like that just really tests everyone's latency. And it's such an unforgiving mechanic on normal and above (basically, picked up by tornado = death).
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90 Troll Druid
15200
And it's such an unforgiving mechanic on normal and above (basically, picked up by tornado = death).

Iron Qon you mean? So if you get hit by one of those tornadoes on normal you die? That seems a bit much, as they tend to come out of the side of the screen and blindside you without much warning no matter how you pan your camera.
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86 Draenei Paladin
17625
Iron Qon you mean? So if you get hit by one of those tornadoes on normal you die? That seems a bit much, as they tend to come out of the side of the screen and blindside you without much warning no matter how you pan your camera.


except they're a pattern that is 100% repeated, every single time, and it's not even a new mechanic, it's sideways Alysrazor
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
We have people get picked up and not die all the time
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100 Human Paladin
13565
We have people get picked up and not die all the time


Maybe your guild's healers are at a higher level than ours. I'd consider us a good snapshot of a 25-man normal guild. Usually the healers make it out first, and anyone picked up (usually 1-2 DPS) end up dropped off somewhere in the back out of range and die as they run the rest of the way.

I'm not saying the mechanic is too difficult or too difficult for us (obviously it's not if we're downing it regularly since the first time we killed it), but I'm saying it's a frustrating one.
Edited by Dekkar on 6/3/2013 12:46 AM PDT
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
06/03/2013 12:45 AMPosted by Dekkar
Maybe your guild's healers are at a higher level than ours. I'd consider us a good snapshot of a 25-man normal guild. Usually the healers make it out first, and anyone picked up (usually 1-2 DPS) end up dropped off somewhere in the back out of range and die as they run the rest of the way.


It's not about healing, it's about personal Cooldowns, Since, heals get reduced by so much.

We have people who get picked up on heroic kills that still survive because they pop personal Damage reduction or healing cooldowns (Even in their nerfed form)

I'm not saying the mechanic is too difficult or too difficult for us (obviously it's not if we're downing it regularly since the first time we killed it), but I'm saying it's a frustrating one.


Honestly, Iron Qon was overall the easiest set of mechanics to learn, because it's nothing new or intense or interesting, he's a throwback of several old boss mechanics tossed into one, and There's 0 Rng, 0 Luck, 0 BS on his main mechanics, the wind storm? Is 100% Every single time, the exact same thing, and the tornados pickup mechanics are client side, not server side, as even if you lag spike mid tornado, you will still make it through, or get picked up based on what you saw, not what the server saw (If you rubber band back into tornados, you touched one on your screen but lagged to send the data that you did)

So, if someone gets picked up, they screwed up, end of story, can't blame anything but self on it.

Iron Qon is 3 Molten Core bosses worth of mechanics, but he's 1/4th a kael thas!

Honestly, though, I havent seen anyone find Qon a roadblock, normal or heroic, so he's not a good example to toss out, as he's probably one of the heavier mechanic wise bosses in the instance, but simpler in terms of execution, compared to Durumu, who's mechanics aren't actually that great in number, but each requires more finesse in execution.
Edited by Azane on 6/3/2013 4:17 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
10975
if you split mechanics up by role, it greatly reduces the amount of things a person has to watch. a lot of people seem to think they need to know all mechanics to a fight; the only ones that matter are the ones pertaining to your role in the raid. ie: DPS, Healer, Tank or Melee and Ranged. unless you are a raid leader of course, which its your responsiblity to know them but that goes with the job.

also, i dont use DBM or ANY boss mod and i have a horrible memory. the game basically gives you tons of indicators that something is going to happen. its gotten to the point where you dont need timers or alerts. i havent used them since before firelands. i believe there is another major issue on top of this though. so many players have access to DBM or another boss mod, and most guilds require it, that i believe people have become dependent on them and that they have forgotten (or have never trained themselves) raid awareness because they have an addon handling that for them. i mean how much awareness is required when an addon tells you what is going on, or that you're standing in the bad. raid awareness has dropped drastically from every raid ive done, not just from my own guild. but others as well. honestly, i think if boss mods were done away with the player base would get much better at the game. i really believe that if anything they are hurting players, or in an indirect way making them lazy. i mean, lets prove this point. if you are an all time raider with dbm or some boss mod, raid for a while without it (and i dont mean one night). then after a few weeks, turn your boss mod back on and see how well you do (and im not talking about maximization here, boss mods were intended to help you maximize yourself, not be 100% reliant on them). do you do better, or worse? do you even need the boss mod now or did you learn what all the indicators are? if you do really bad without a boss mod, then you have zero raid awareness...which in every guild ive raided with is a requirement to raiding.
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