LFR queue times for dps

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90 Human Mage
5680
can't something be done about this ? it is bad enough to wait 45 minutes to get into a raid but then to get into a partial and have to wait another 45 minutes to finish it ... really

can these not be adjusted so only one tank and 3 healers are needed the rest dps or increase to 30 man raid and add more dps ?

if 90 minutes waiting in queue is acceptable then it would be nice for the chance for dps to win gear be increased 10% for every 10 minute wait in queue so that if you have to end up waiting 90 minutes you are pretty well guarantee a piece of gear for the trouble.
It would not be a bad idea to reduce the healers to 5, to my knowledge healers are the most needed in LFR. But 1 tank 3 healers would be pretty unfair to them.
Your second idea, however, is terrible.
Remember that DPS already get 3x the spots healers fill, and 8.5x the spots tanks fill.
90 Human Mage
5680
how would 1 tank 3 healers be unfair to them ? do you figure that their queue will increase to 10 -15 minutes and make that unfair - i am not sure increasing the amount of dps in a fight would actually increase the queue time for tanks and healers anyway - i would think it would just reduce the time dps spends in queue
Edited by Caletta on 4/8/2013 1:29 PM PDT
100 Worgen Mage
18855
Blizzard's hoping the offspec loot option in 5.3 will help queue times, and they'll reevaluate from there.
Edited by Digerati on 4/8/2013 4:14 PM PDT
how would 1 tank 3 healers be unfair to them ? do you figure that their queue will increase to 10 -15 minutes and make that unfair - i am not sure increasing the amount of dps in a fight would actually increase the queue time for tanks and healers anyway - i would think it would just reduce the time dps spends in queue


DPS already have many times of spots in LFR then healers and tanks do. Now it would be 21x the tanks spots, and 7x the healers spots. Thats insane.
I can't speak for tanks, but I have heard that they do have a queue time. Your idea is giving tanks and healers more of a queue time, for dps less. I'm unsure what would happen if the tanks and healers required was suddenly cut in half, that is one reason.
Another reason is, having only 3 healers taking care of 25-30 people can easily put much more pressure on the healers. 1 bad healer or a bad healer comp easily has much more of a effect. I can see 2 routes blizzard can take, nerfing it to the point that it becomes really boring for healers, or having it that healers have to be above average of tanks and DPS.
This is why if blizzard goes the route of reducing healers, I rather them do it slowly then just suddenly cut it in half.
Edited by Trollinhobo on 4/8/2013 1:48 PM PDT
90 Human Mage
5680
04/08/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Trollinhobo
how would 1 tank 3 healers be unfair to them ? do you figure that their queue will increase to 10 -15 minutes and make that unfair - i am not sure increasing the amount of dps in a fight would actually increase the queue time for tanks and healers anyway - i would think it would just reduce the time dps spends in queue


DPS already have many times of spots in LFR then healers and tanks do. Now it would be 21x the tanks spots, and 7x the healers spots. Thats insane.
I can't speak for tanks, but I have heard that they do have a queue time. Your idea is giving tanks and healers more of a queue time, for dps less. I'm unsure what would happen if the tanks and healers required was suddenly cut in half, that is one reason.
Another reason is, having only 3 healers taking care of 25-30 people can easily put much more pressure on the healers. 1 bad healer or a bad healer comp easily has much more of a effect. I can see 2 routes blizzard can take, nerfing it to the point that it becomes really boring for healers, or having it that healers have to be above average of tanks and DPS.
This is why if blizzard goes the route of reducing healers, I rather them do it slowly then just suddenly cut it in half.


Yes certainly those actual numbers would need adjusting - i just threw those numbers as a suggestion. The damage caused in the fights could be adjusted though and maybe the health of the boss increased to balance things. I suspect this idea isn't that workable because too many things would need to be changed but I really don't think dps should have to wait 45 each time they queue and then get dumped into partials and have the same wait all over again to complete a raid.
100 Orc Warrior
13225
04/08/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Caletta
can't something be done about this ?


Three step solution:

1. Make friends with a tank or healer on your realm.
2. (This part is important) Help your friend with daily quests, so that they enjoy playing tank/healer.
3. Then queue for LFR with your friend, and they'll help you get a fast queue.

If you skip step 2, and nobody enjoys playing tank/healer, then people won't play those roles, and LFR queue times will continue to be bad.
90 Draenei Paladin
11100
can these not be adjusted so only one tank and 3 healers are needed the rest dps or increase to 30 man raid and add more dps ?


Look at the healing meters after your next LFR. Now imagine doing your next LFR run with only the bottom 3.
90 Orc Hunter
0
You are asking them to retune the entire instance to a really weird combination of tanks and healers. If there is one tank, you are basically tossing out boss mechanics. If there are three healers, the damage output has to be equal to what they can produce. And then those healers have to heal around 30 people? Damage taken to damage given is no ridiculously off balance.
90 Human Mage
5680
04/08/2013 04:16 PMPosted by Inushi
can't something be done about this ?


Three step solution:

1. Make friends with a tank or healer on your realm.
2. (This part is important) Help your friend with daily quests, so that they enjoy playing tank/healer.
3. Then queue for LFR with your friend, and they'll help you get a fast queue.

If you skip step 2, and nobody enjoys playing tank/healer, then people won't play those roles, and LFR queue times will continue to be bad.


Yes queue for LFR with a healer friend, like a lot of dps have been doing, and then half the healers leave after they get in raid which adds another 15 minutes waiting for healers again.
90 Human Mage
5680
You are asking them to retune the entire instance to a really weird combination of tanks and healers. If there is one tank, you are basically tossing out boss mechanics. If there are three healers, the damage output has to be equal to what they can produce. And then those healers have to heal around 30 people? Damage taken to damage given is no ridiculously off balance.


Hey this was a suggestion to a problem that is arising because too many dps and not enough tanks/healers. I mentioned previously that i thought it was unlikely because too much would have to be changed.

What do you think would work ?

p.s what is interesting about these posts is no one is touching on my third suggestion - i.e. increase chances to win gear if you have to wait a lengthy time in queue.
Edited by Caletta on 4/8/2013 5:36 PM PDT
100 Pandaren Priest
17340
Increasing loot for waiting longer means MORE dpsers clogging it up so they can get more loot, so they can wait longer, so they can get more loot... It'll be a battle of wills between who can go the longest without an afk timeout. I'd totally log in remotely halfway through the afternoon at work, !@#$le it once in a while, then once I get home the 4-hour queue pops and I get mucho loot. Hooray! Casual players would be completely boned, LFR DPS spots would only go to the hardened queue-surfers.

Reducing healers to 5 would work, 4 might be cutting it a little tight. The offspec roll in 5.3 will also be a big help.
Edited by Breathkeeper on 4/8/2013 6:02 PM PDT
100 Human Paladin
aus
19420
The ratio of healers to dps is almost the same in lfr as 5 mans. The healers are out their, you just need to get them healing and not playing dps.

Reducing healers makes it harder even if they reduced damage taken.

Amusingly enough last night i had a 48 minute queue as a healer while waiting on tanks.
90 Human Mage
5680
Increasing loot for waiting longer means MORE dpsers clogging it up so they can get more loot, so they can wait longer, so they can get more loot... It'll be a battle of wills between who can go the longest without an afk timeout. I'd totally log in remotely halfway through the afternoon at work, !@#$le it once in a while, then once I get home the 4-hour queue pops and I get mucho loot. Hooray! Casual players would be completely boned, LFR DPS spots would only go to the hardened queue-surfers.

Reducing healers to 5 would work, 4 might be cutting it a little tight. The offspec roll in 5.3 will also be a big help.


I am seriously lacking in imagination. Why can't I think of ways to 'beat' the system. After reading this for a second time though -if all the dpsers are trying to extend there waiting times though wouldn't ppl like me that WANT to get in fast be able to since there would be less dps for the 'quick' spots. I actually can't understand how you can extend the queue anyway since that has never been my aim.
Edited by Caletta on 4/8/2013 6:44 PM PDT
100 Night Elf Druid
13625
If you want me (a healer) to queue for more raids to shorten your queue time then:

1) Don't keep blaming me because you died from standing where you weren't suppose to;

2) Don't cause me unneeded stress because you keep standing where you aren't suppose to;

3) Give me a reason to do more than one given LFR per week (say 90 valor per raid, not just per week.)
90 Human Mage
5680
If you want me (a healer) to queue for more raids to shorten your queue time then:

1) Don't keep blaming me because you died from standing where you weren't suppose to;

2) Don't cause me unneeded stress because you keep standing where you aren't suppose to;

3) Give me a reason to do more than one given LFR per week (say 90 valor per raid, not just per week.)


So you want to be treated better than anyone else ? I doubt it will happen. Healers blame dps and tanks, tanks blame dps and healers and dps blame healers and tanks - that's what happens in those. People make mistakes including healers. And I doubt for most healers 45 extra vp is going to make them want to spend an hour or more of their time in an extra raid when you can do a scenerio that takes 15 minutes for more.
100 Human Warrior
15145
Ah the QQing of a dps about having to wait. Funny how you call someone out for wanting to be "treated better" yet that's just what one of your options would do for you having to wait - ie increase chance of loot.

Coming from 7 years of playing and doing everyting from 40 man to LFR and everything in between - most dps just stand there and expect to get healed and do not pay atention or care about what they are standing in. They die and blame the healers when all they had to do was move. They do not move because the one second of not attacking the boss might affect their damage output and they do not want to risk not being near the top of the dps chart. So no they do not expect to be treated diiferently, they expect dps to act differently.
100 Pandaren Priest
17340
I am seriously lacking in imagination. Why can't I think of ways to 'beat' the system. After reading this for a second time though -if all the dpsers are trying to extend there waiting times though wouldn't ppl like me that WANT to get in fast be able to since there would be less dps for the 'quick' spots. I actually can't understand how you can extend the queue anyway since that has never been my aim.


I don't even need much out of LFR, and I'd be hitting that dps role every time, instead of healing like I normally do. DPS who want to hurry up and get a quick LFR done would be caught in the crossfire and forced to endure longer waits. It would make the problem DRASTICALLY worse, and pure dps classes would suffer the most because they can't break down and switch to tank/healer when the wait gets too long.

Extra loot to compensate for your wait time is so ripe for abuse it's absolutely out of the question.
Edited by Breathkeeper on 4/9/2013 6:50 AM PDT
90 Troll Shaman
11705
Several MoP design choices are alt/tank/healer unfriendly and are at least partially to blame for high DPS queues. For instance:

-Trying to keep the previous tier LFR relevant spreads the player base over soon to be 9 LFRs
(whereas in Dragon Soul it was spread over 2)
-There is a lot of incentive to do dailies. At a minimum people will want to do the 45 a week it takes for lesser charms. Dailies are much more pleasant as DPS, and particularly unpleasant for tanks and healers that don't have good gear synergy with their DPS spec (those "boss" mobs at the end of the isle of thunder are a 10 minute snooze on my tank).
-They are making scenarios a priority. Also, more pleasant as DPS.
100 Human Paladin
10265
Blizzard's hoping the offspec loot option in 5.3 will help queue times, and they'll reevaluate from there.


Agreed. I am optimistic because I know I will always queue as Holy when that happens.
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