Why do we need tanks?

90 Human Paladin
13020
It's not explicitly stated by blizzard, but read the names of tanking items. It's always noble this, or excellent that, whether it's boots of kingly upheaval or a ring of unrelenting excellence. Lore wise, we are the champions.

This has nothing to do with player importance of course, often a group's champion could be the top dpsers or the amazing healers or what have you.

But from a "logic" perspective, there has always been heavily armored people being acting as a champion, whether it be a phalanx or medieval knight or even a motorized gun (a tank.) These people or things are way, way too tough to ignore. You can't run past them, they define the line. The only thing which is unrealistic, is that there's only one or two of us on a boss at any given time.

I just view it as we're too dangerous to leave alone, and we're too tough to kill.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
"tabletop RPG tanks did not exist"

What do you call a AD&D paladin? Or did you shove your mage out in front of every door?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
11535
04/08/2013 07:44 PMPosted by Nerfheals
There's a shortage of tanks, relative to dps, who want to queue for instances with random people.


This.

Posted by Nth
Imagine if your entire LFR HAD to get out of the fire, or you wiped. No thanks.

You mean Durumu? :p


And this.

Once tanks have the gear they need from LFD/LFR we avoid it like the plague - guild raiding and facerolling dailies (kill X mobs = pull X mobs, woo!) are way easier for capping valor, assuming we even need it anymore.

Tanks are, for the most part, the only ones who actually need to know what they're doing in random groups, and because of that any and all wipes are claimed to be the tank's fault. So let's see: we have to know more, focus more, and still get yelled at for being bad when you're the one spreading fire under our feet or failing any of several mechanics. So obviously we're not going to bother queuing to carry you to your gear.

Remove tanks and people will have to L2P. Alternatively, everyone will continue QQing till you get your weekly gear piece in the mail. Then we'll see how fun the game is.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13750
I think the real question here is:

Why do tanks need healers and dps?


I ask this question alot when I do a LFD...
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
13750
"tabletop RPG tanks did not exist"

What do you call a AD&D paladin? Or did you shove your mage out in front of every door?


Constantly .. That damn mage needs to die more often..
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100 Draenei Warrior
15690
I used to think it made no sense.

Then I did a WSG ages ago. I had two healers following me the whole time and basically none of the Horde ever even tried to target them. No, they all went after me because I had the flag. Even though they couldn't kill me because I had two healers following me.

Got [Ironman] from that.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
Pretty much the only time I ever get complaints is in LFR and that's almost always some DPS whining about something--pull speed or someone starting an encounter while I'm afk for a moment and they all then die.

First rule to being a tank in this game is to grow some thick skin really.

As for the tank topic: It's been established already that tanks are a pretty old idea both in RPGs and just fantasy in general, I mean really even old fantasy books you can often pick out a character that "acts like a tank" and runs into a battle distracting everyone while the others back them up.

Honestly I don't see why people think that its such an outdated mechanic and that everyone should be able to heal and tank or something or other, there are plenty of games like that already out there that basically bring fighting down to people either avoiding attacks from a boss or a boss hitting so pitifully that one person can "tank it" and heal themselves(go figure.)

How else do you fight massive, destructive looking bosses without turning it into a game of "dodge everything" and quite honestly that's what 90% of games do, they decide if everyone can tank that means the boss should basically one shot anyone that stands in bad. It's often not very challenging for that reason and can become very predictable.
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41 Human Paladin
3640
Try taking down an end game boss without a tank. Let me know how that works out for you.

Tanking is a thankless role. Leveling a tank class can be tedious (at least for a pally it is). People love DPS because of the large damage burst it provides and the huge numbers that flash on a screen. When leveling a tank class we deal with low damage but high survivability.

Tanking exists in other RPG's. Most other games tanks are most viable for groups when leveling. I have always preferred the tank class to any other class.

Early game my show you do not really need a tanks. That is because most people are learning class mechanics. End game requires tanks.
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
Try taking down an end game boss without a tank. Let me know how that works out for you.

Tanking is a thankless role. Leveling a tank class can be tedious (at least for a pally it is). People love DPS because of the large damage burst it provides and the huge numbers that flash on a screen. When leveling a tank class we deal with low damage but high survivability.

Tanking exists in other RPG's. Most other games tanks are most viable for groups when leveling. I have always preferred the tank class to any other class.

Early game my show you do not really need a tanks. That is because most people are learning class mechanics. End game requires tanks.

Uh, you do realize early game tanks do pretty much the highest dps in an instance right? Especially with vengeance. Most classes don't get effective aoe's till closer to 60 and if they get them earlier they usually scale terribly. Avenger's shield in particular hits like a truck, and half of your abilities either cleave or do aoe/split damage.

In fact on raid boss fights with a lot of cleaving the tank is often top dps still due to vengeance scaling. The ones we score poorly on are where bosses don't hit very hard and attack slowly. But on those you shouldn't exactly be worried about dying eh?

Calling it a thankless job is a bit of a 50/50 too, I honestly have a lot of people asking for me to tank for them, although it is true I rarely get compliments. But who really needs compliments, guilds especially tend to show their gratitude if you hang out with them as a tank for awhile. Randoms are often just rude in general so that's not just a tank thing.
Edited by Velnarl on 4/11/2013 9:01 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
I think the real question here is:

Why do tanks need healers and dps?

Well, ok, healers I get. Why do we need dps again?


If they know what they're doing, they're useful for fights where you have to burn adds and something bad happens if the adds live too long.

Other than that, they're just for convenience, to make the fight a bit shorter, if you can keep them alive. But a lot of people seem to really like playing as dps, so why not let them tag along?
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Posted by SavvymarkIf so few want to play tanks There's no particular shortage of tanks. There's a shortage of tanks, relative to dps, who want to queue for instances with random people. That's not a problem with tanking as a role, or game mechanic - that's a problem with the environment in LFD/LFR.


The truth is tanks are in a decided lack because they hate being pissed on and told how stupid they are and not good at tanking. i fix this by aggroing a huge mob then leaveing telling them your so damned good tank it yourself.
Then tell me why you need a tank. Nuff said.. "awaits the rants"
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6075
Wow terms of tanking they generate aggo or aggression. In a more life like scenario, a "tank" would be a line backer, not really pissing anyone off but more doing every thing they can to stay between the enemy and their friends. In turn, the enemy while wanting to focus on the softer targets can't intelligently just ignore this fighter between them or be stuck with a combatant at his back nipping at his heels... or hamstrings, glutes, back... pick your target.

Also, in RPG's, true, there isn't really a tank character in most cases but some do allow you to pick a formation that limits damage based on location and come characters would take his better than others.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6080
1. RBG flagg running ( only an idiot would run flags thats not a tank in RBG's unless the other team sucks that badly )

2. to take the damage ( let me see you down current raid especially on heroic with NO tanks at all )

it's not rocket science. their is a reason people don't want to tank and it's because of all the idiots who role DPS and constantly taunting off, pulling before the tank, all the fail healers not healing and instead dpsing, etc.. tanking has gotten extremely easy in cata alone but the fact people can't seem to manage to work as a "GROUP" people don't like to tank. i rolled a tank yesterday and it's hard tanking a single 5man dungeon because people are so impatient and egotistic.

3. world bosses ( i have not seen any groups down a world boss without a tank ). pet tanks are good but they are not the greatest. they lack many things plus the person who owns that pet must manage their pet meaning loss of DPS so really their is no point in even bringing that DPS along he is jsut dead weight and that pet will SURELY die in the end unless it's low content where pets can easily tank
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44 Human Warrior
7505
With all the smart people in LFD, can you imagine what it would be like if we didnt have a tank? no thank you.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
11375
Let's define what a tank is first: A tank is the guy that is getting hit by the boss.

So now let's remove "tanks" from world or warcraft and instead have all bosses focus on killing the guys healing. What you will quickly see happen is that the healers are now the tank. They will now be more focused on keeping themselves and lives while that mob hits them. We could add in mobs that randomly drop threat but that causes a wide range of problems since you can no longer control the location of the mob. So at the end of the day our healers have turned into tanks that heal themselves. Even playing GW2 there is always that one melee that ends up taking more damage and trying to keep themselves alive while the group focuses on killing mobs. They are not a designated "tank" in the traditional sense but if we refer to our definition of a tank then that dps is now the tank.

The Holy Trinity was not some game designer's idea, it is what occurs when anything attacks a group of people. The guys at the front of the line in medieval times where the tanks, the archers were the dps and the medics were the healers. What blizzard and many other mmorpg designers have done is create a certain specialization that they can balance that focuses on survivability. Could you imagine trying to balance the damage intake of all the dps and healers so one doesn't have an easier time surviving?
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90 Human Paladin
12390
i have 2 tanking classes my pally and my dk, now im the kind of person who wants to protect my friends and buds, at most times with my soul, but cause i have a "protection personality" the tank classes i favor over dpsing, but never ask me to heal i cant i just suck at it. my favtore tank is the pally, but my most geared is my dk. i love tanking with all my heart, it is my way of doing what i would normaly not do in RL cuase lets face it if pallians were real i would soooo be one. but i rabble. yes i love tanking and even if they took the tanks away i would find away to become-one again! oh i do dps sometimes but prefer to tank. and too all tanks who do a great job in raids, dgs, ect. keep up the fantastic job guys, and gals! because lets face it we do take a beating that most dps dont even think about unless they tank or heal at somepoint of there wow life.

SO 5 CHEERS FOR ALL TANKS THAT LOVE TANKING!!!!!!

GO TANK, GO TANK, GO TANK, GO TANK, GO TANK.

P.S. i hope the person that made this topic will show some respect to us for what all tanks have or will go though. ☺
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100 Night Elf Druid
6355
So now let's remove "tanks" from world or warcraft and instead have all bosses focus on killing the guys healing. What you will quickly see happen is that the healers are now the tank.


Or the DPS. FFXI went through a phase where tank threat totally sucked, and DPS had way more survivability than they probably should have (it cost a lot of healer mana to keep them up, but at the same time, healers had near infinite mana). The result was DPS tanks and the complete obsolescence of pure tank classes (they still technically had better survivability, but it didn't matter because they couldn't hold threat unless the DPS throttled A LOT and the DPS could facetank anyway with enough heals).

It's not something I'd like to see happen to WoW.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
There's no particular shortage of tanks. There's a shortage of tanks, relative to dps, who want to queue for instances with random people. That's not a problem with tanking as a role, or game mechanic - that's a problem with the environment in LFD/LFR.


quoted for truth.

04/09/2013 07:50 AMPosted by Dkcolfy
After DPSing for so long, I feel as a tank I can actually make a difference in a raid encounter.


That's how I feel. Waaaaaaaaay back in the day when men were men, /4 was a thing, and Uldaman was actually a level 40 dungeon, I played a troll mage with floppy ears. Loved Uldaman. LOOOOOOOOVED it. It was grey to me and I'd still go in there, it was really the first dungeon where CC and coordination made a big difference in your success. I stepped in one day with a warrior tank. A *good* warrior tank, I was blown away by the difference, and it was obvious that the warrior was the reason.

I rolled a warrior immediately after, and I've never looked back. That I can have such an effect on the success of any encounter is the reason I tank. If Wow got rid of tanks, I'd stop playing.

I also played Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate/BG2/Shadows of Amn etc. The best parties had that warrior/paladin or two decked out in plate. Of the 4-6 people you'd put your plate wearers on the front lines to handle melee with the monsters you were fighting. You'd put your mages and rangers behind them and you'd sneak the thief around the back. If a mob ended up focusing on the thief, you focus fired on that one until it was dead and used your healers to keep the thief alive. Then after combat you'd touch up the plate wearers who acted as a tank.

The tank role has always been a part of D&D type games. It may not be as clearly defined as it is in WoW, but its always been there.


Yep, and a properly built rogue has a pretty good AC too. Not as good as a dedicated plate wearer, but good enough unless the thing you're fighting has a ridiculous THACO.
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What a troll. Basically the @OP was just a bad tank, gave up on it, re-rolled a hunter and feels he needs to chime in about how they need to remove a roll that he sucked at. People like tanking...should they just remove dps as role because some people don't like it and would rather heal or tank?? Come on man.
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