Holy Paladin - Please review arena viability

90 Undead Rogue
7005
I'm not sure if blizzard have noticed, but since 5.2 hit holy paladin representation in arena has dropped considerably in the top 200.

Holy Paladins just don't bring enough in an arena match any more. They are fine at low ratings where players forget to dispel sac before cc, don't take notice of divine protection or mess their lockouts/cc up. But we do not perform at high ratings nearly as well as a restoration shaman/druid/monk/priest due to our lack of utility, lack of CC breaks and poor defensive cooldowns. I'm not treating this as a QQ thread and won't go into the details further.

The suggestions (this is linked from arenajunkies so I do not take credit for this, I do however agree with all of these points) are as follows and I understand some may be over the top but one or two of these suggestions may help to balance holy paladins:

* Divine protection usable in a stun or make it glyphable to do so and reduce all damage taken by 40% 3min cd (currently 1min and only magic damage) similar to pain suppresion
* Revert blind change or make it a 0.5 cast or provide a mechanic that makes it instant for 3 seconds after a stun/silence so it can be used defensively
* Aura mastery to break silences
* Reduce fear duration effects on a paladin by 30% like it was with Unyielding Faith before it was removed in Patch 4.0.1 (Cataclysm)
* Make sacred shield a real shield..
* Make freedom/sac undispelable or a cooldown to make them undispelable during that spells duration, or offer a talent that allows this such as replacing hand of purity (meaning we don't get double freedom/sac/bop etc in exchange for making them undispelable) this is to help counter how easy it is to CC a holy paladin
* Divine plea to lose the 50% MS possibly lower it to 25% and/or consider making it undispelable (perhaps with a glyph?)
* Make hand of purity a better spell to even consider taking over Clemency, perhaps a buff that makes hand spells undispelable while it's active but increase its cooldown?

We are unfortunately one of the weakest of the healers right now and our over representation last season was largely due to overpowered warriors and the synergy holy paladins have with them.

These are simply suggestions to help balance Holy Paladins in arena, I understand several have an impact on RBGs and PVE and some may be overpowered so please feel free to offer opinions or ideas.
Edited by Slipx on 4/15/2013 9:19 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
7505
04/15/2013 08:57 PMPosted by Slipx
We are unfortunately the weakest of the healers right now


Stopped reading here.
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I don't understand why Divine Plea has a 50% MS in the first place. Innervate has no MS. Mana Tide has no MS. I'm sure whatever monks have for regen has no MS. priests pet and hymn have no MS.
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90 Undead Rogue
7005
Stopped reading here.


I did not mean to say hpally's are the "worst" as that is subjective and very comp dependent - I do think Mistweavers are in a bad place right now due to their lack of CC breaks, but the 5.3 changes will help them considerably. I think disc/restosham/restodruid are all fairly solid right now and each competes well with a decent variety of comp's at high ratings.
Edited by Slipx on 4/15/2013 9:33 PM PDT
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1 Orc Warrior
0
I've just come back to my holy in 5.2 since cata, I have to say..
I feel fine in rbgs, a tad easy to control but with good positioning and some decent dispels and peels I feel right at home..
Arena on the other hand.. I'm in struggle town and wish I had played scumbag KFC in 5.1...
We are so easily controlled and don't have that leeway to make the odd small mistake that other healers have.
Perhaps more cc immunity/fear or silence breaks?
I don't think adding more cc is good for this game but I would be more than happy with more abilities that negate cc..
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1 Troll Priest
0
holy paladins are like the #2 MAYBE #3 healer right now.. they're better than druids/monks.

what game are you playing?

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/
Edited by Watkykjy on 4/15/2013 10:48 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
7005
holy paladins are like the #2 MAYBE #3 healer right now.. they're better than druids/monks.

what game are you playing?

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/


If you read the changes I've proposed you'll see I'm not suggesting major buffs, even nerfs to some skills, what I'm suggesting is versatility. The problem isn't with the healing throughput its the versatility and susceptibility to CC and swaps with long locks outs where a paladin has very little to counter it with. This is a major problem vs good god comp setups, wizard cleaves or any good hunter setups. Paladins do fine healing vs melee cleave comps but have somewhat of a classic arena play style that no longer works in the current state of arena (long instant CC lockouts etc while the paladin is providing very little healing whilst CC'd).

As mentioned, it is no issue at low ratings since people don't take notice of sac or DP or setup good CC pressure to force bubble then swap for kills etc. Its competing at a higher level where other healers offer more versatility to a comp than a hpally (in 3v3). I realise hpally still does OK in a very limited number of comps such as PHD and the weaker comps such as TSG and kitty cleave, but there is a lot of room for improvement to the class without making them OP just more versatile.

I think hpally is fine in RBGs and I have no complaints there, I don't PVE so I can't comment on that aspect nor is this the thread to do so.
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100 Night Elf Druid
5355
holy paladins are like the #2 MAYBE #3 healer right now.. they're better than druids/monks.

what game are you playing?

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/


good sir that includes ret paladins
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90 Undead Warrior
18120
holy paladins are like the #2 MAYBE #3 healer right now.. they're better than druids/monks.

what game are you playing?

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/


good sir that includes ret paladins

Wtf's a ret paladin?
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100 Night Elf Druid
5355


good sir that includes ret paladins

Wtf's a ret paladin?


your romantic pursuer
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90 Human Priest
18395
this guy seriously thinks holy is as bad as disc, mw or rdruids
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100 Night Elf Druid
5355
this guy seriously thinks holy is as bad as disc, mw or rdruids


u honestly think disc and rdruid is worse than holy?

holy is only better than monk atm
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1 Human Priest
0
holy paladins are like the #2 MAYBE #3 healer right now.. they're better than druids/monks.

what game are you playing?

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/


good sir that includes ret paladins


holy paladins are like the #2 MAYBE #3 healer right now.. they're better than druids/monks.

what game are you playing?

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/


good sir that includes ret paladins


look at the number of holy paladins.
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90 Orc Hunter
6410
I play a holy pallidin and I would say all of these would be reasonble strong buffs to match hpallys with shamans and disc. They wouldn't need to do all of these buffs but mabye just one or two would even help.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12155
I have to agree with the OP. I played a Holy paladin last season and switched to a druid this one and I have to admit I am having a million times more fun. A druid compared to a paladin seems like night and day, the druid feels like a complete class that has huge "up to date utility" benefits for my team. Example of what I mean is, BoP is good but feels very outdated now due to the high amount of dispels in the game.

If I had to rank the healers it'd probably be;

Druid = Shaman > Priest > Paladin = Monk

And come 5.3 Healing Monks will be getting some pretty decent buffs, most notably:

Nimble Brew now also removes horrify effects, and reduces the duration of horrify effects and fear, and is available to all Monk specializations (formerly only available for Brewmaster and Windwalker Monks).


What I personally would like to see done is:

  • Divine Protection glyph changed to reduce Physical Damage by 40%. 20%/20% is just very weak and almost pointless.
  • Divine Shield cooldown dropped from 5 minutes to 3. If you look at all the defensive abilities in the game they have either been put to 3 minutes or are going to be in the patch. (Ice Block, Shield Wall, etc)
  • Buff Speed of Light by either making it have a freedom in itself or by changing the spell completely. It would be nice to have a blink or charge/intervene ability, Displacer Beast and Spectral Guise are great skillful abilities.
  • If Bubble's cooldown would be reduced to 3 min baseline, Unbreakable Spirit could then be changed to be a better self defensive buff for paladins, one that could maybe break CC. Only that type of talent would ever stand a chance vs such a strong talent like Clemency in my opinion.
  • Edited by Salah on 4/16/2013 4:07 PM PDT
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    Is this a joke? You can complain when your class gets nerfed to the state disc priests where in last season
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    90 Undead Rogue
    7005
    Is this a joke? You can complain when your class gets nerfed to the state disc priests where in last season


    This really isn't constructive feedback. Disc was bad last season now its fine, I don't see how that relates to whether further discussion on the state of hpallys should be had?

    I agree entirely that hpally was OP in 5.1 especially with a KFC comp, I hated the ridiculous amount of CC I had as a hpally and I don't want to see that sort of easy CC ability come back since it was skilless.

    I can't really comment on the monks current situation, they seem to have great counters to other teams burst, good regen, good mobility and good healing output but their CC breaks are lacking which appears to be what makes them weak.

    Uh huh...

    That's like asking blizzard to make my body and soul talent immune to snares.

    Suck it up. Every class has weaknesses. Be glad your FREEDOM isn't hindered by endless snares making it 100% completely useless.


    Freedom being undispelable isn't something I was suggesting for every freedom, I agree it would be to OP maybe less so if there was a spell with a 2 min CD to allow that to happen, sac being undisplable would be far more beneficial maybe as a glyph that reduced the amount of damage it transfers to make it undispelable. The idea is to offer constructive feedback, not "oh no that suggestion is to OP".
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