Can DPS shaman get a solid escape mechanic?

You asked a question in your original post, and the answer is simple: No. Hyperbole and crying that you have the worst of every ability class all the time doesn't strengthen your case to ask for one either, or get anyone on your side.
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
Lightning Bolt makes enemies escape from you! :D
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15120
Bubble? Freedom? You have better CC?


dps shamans have a better short cd defensive then rets have. ele can spam hardcasted heals unlike ret. ele shamans have better ways to open gaps then ret, and they have better ways to stop targets then ret.
Edited by Vladja on 4/24/2013 8:45 PM PDT
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90 Undead Warlock
13800

ele shamans have better ways to open gaps then ret


I should hope so! Rets don't want to open gaps, they want to close them. You are comparing a Melee and a Ranged.

I also disagree with a few other things you said, but this was the weirdest one.
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100 Orc Shaman
13825
You asked a question in your original post, and the answer is simple: No. Hyperbole and crying that you have the worst of every ability class all the time doesn't strengthen your case to ask for one either, or get anyone on your side.


I don't know if you're referring to me or not, but if you are, I asked several questions in my original post.

Any more arguments from people about why Ele shouldn't have an oh sh*t button?

We're asking for a defensive CD.

There are 5 people that aren't Shaman that have posted in this thread. No arguments for why Ele doesn't need an escape mechanic, just arguments that, Ele does in fact have escape mechanics, or the other classes aren't as good as made out to be.

Still doesn't change the fact that it's easier to train Ele than it is to train SPriest, and Boomkin, the other two hybrid casters. And if you want to open it up to all ranged, Ele is still easier to train than Mages, Warlocks, and Hunters, too.

04/24/2013 08:44 PMPosted by Vladja
Bubble? Freedom? You have better CC?


dps shamans have a better short cd defensive then rets have. ele can spam hardcasted heals unlike ret. ele shamans have better ways to open gaps then ret, and they have better ways to stop targets then ret.


Ret != Ele

Ret == Enh

In the end, Ret still has Bubble. An oh sh*t button. Shaman don't have any such button. Still easier to kill the Ele Sham than it is anybody else. Honestly guys, how many of you have a hard time killing an Ele Sham? Maybe you've run into one here or there that was really good, and gave you a run for your money. But how many average Ele Sham have you seen in a BG/Arena and just walked all over?
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90 Worgen Priest
14675
Is astral shift a non viable talent? It's nearly identical to Unyielding Resolve that warlocks get. Also with Rage up it's 58% dmg reduction.
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100 Orc Shaman
13825
Is astral shift a non viable talent? It's nearly identical to Unyielding Resolve that warlocks get. Also with Rage up it's 58% dmg reduction.


Most Shaman are picking Natures Guardian since the buff in 5.2 let you keep the health gained. NG also only has a 30 second CD, so while you can't activate it on demand, it can proc 4 times for every 1 Astral Shift.

Also, Astral Shift is a talent, as compared to a baseline ability for the Warlock. It's Unending Resolve, btw.

Unending Resolve
3min CD
The Warlock hardens his skin, reducing all damage taken by 40% and preventing his spells from being interrupted or silenced for 8 sec.

Astral Shift
2min CD
Seek haven by shifting partially into the elemental planes, reducing damage taken by 40% for 6 sec.

So Astral Shift has a 1 min shorter CD, but lasts 2 sec less. Unending Resolve also gives aura mastery for the duration.

So if you combine Astral Shift with Shamanistic Rage, you get ~58% reduction, once every two minutes, for 6 seconds.

I'd pick UR over AS any day, given the option.

Still, we're looking for a solid escape mechanic. Not, hey let's be a punching bag for a little bit longer. We want a way to make people STOP attacking us, or a way to get away from our attacker. That's the big problem. We don't have an out. Can't blink out stuns, shift out of snares/roots, teleport, damage immunity... We have Damage Reduction abilities. People kill the Shaman first because it's easy.
Edited by Mungoh on 4/25/2013 2:26 AM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
6990
Hyperbole and crying that you have the worst of every ability class all the time doesn't strengthen your case to ask for one either, or get anyone on your side.


So what does?

Do rated PVP statistics? Because if that is what you'd like I'm sure you can find (if you actually cared to look) multiple sources that would show how poorly DPS shaman do in all categories.

Lets compare this to say, your class (mage). Is there a rated PVP format that you do not have multiple specs being competitive in? 2s - yep, 3s - yep, 5s - yep, RBGs - yep.

Lets compare it to DKS: 2s - yep, 3s - yep, 5s - yep, RBGs - yep.

Let compare it to Pallies: 2s - kinda, 3s - yep, 5s - yep, RBGs - no.

Now lets compare that to enhancement shaman. 2s - no, 3s - barely, 5s - no, RBGs - lol, funny

Now lets compare that to ele shaman: 2s - no, 3s - yep, 5s - no, RBSGs - barely

I'm sure from your perspective that is all hyperbole and balanced. But from someone who has played DPS shaman extensively for years its pretty much the standard layout for expansion after expansion.

And please, don't point to 1 or 2 high ranked DPS shaman and say everything is alright with the specs.

We need some help. 10% DR some of the time on some attacks isn't enough. What we need is a solid escape mechanism.

I feel that our dmg is decent, our burst is great our basic survivability is fine. It is the simple fact that there is rarely a downside to tunneling the DPS shaman 100% of the time (unless there is a cliff...). Almost every group/team knows this and does it and there is a good reason, it works. When you tunnel an enh you know that in 20 seconds or less he is either dead or popped everything he has to stay alive, given the repeatable burst window times it isn't hard to see where this leads. This isn't the case with other dps as they have a solid reset ability. Yes resets can also be countered, but with DPS shaman there isn't even anything to counter.
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90 Orc Shaman
6990
Is astral shift a non viable talent? It's nearly identical to Unyielding Resolve that warlocks get. Also with Rage up it's 58% dmg reduction.


1) AS and Rage have different CDs
2) AS can't be cast while stunned
3) AS can't be cast while silenced
4) AS has a 6 second duration
5) AS is a Tier 1 defensive talent (not a class ability)

Note that #3 also applies to rage.

That doesn't sound much like UR to me. Not to mention to even get close its gotta be both popped...
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90 Orc Shaman
6990
dps shamans have a better short cd defensive then rets have. ele can spam hardcasted heals unlike ret. ele shamans have better ways to open gaps then ret, and they have better ways to stop targets then ret.


My ret has so much more survivability than my enhance that it isn't even funny.

They are similar in some ways but core defensive mechanics isn't one of them.
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90 Undead Mage
12430
04/25/2013 04:28 AMPosted by Drmist
Is astral shift a non viable talent? It's nearly identical to Unyielding Resolve that warlocks get. Also with Rage up it's 58% dmg reduction.


1) AS and Rage have different CDs
2) AS can't be cast while stunned
3) AS can't be cast while silenced
4) AS has a 6 second duration
5) AS is a Tier 1 defensive talent (not a class ability)

Note that #3 also applies to rage.

That doesn't sound much like UR to me. Not to mention to even get close its gotta be both popped...


Just FYI, AS can be cast while silenced.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
04/24/2013 10:13 AMPosted by Messorem
Every DPS spec in the game except shaman has solid escape and mitigation tools


What do I have?


One baseline CC break, another two from talents, magic debuff immunity for 7 seconds every 45 with a notable amount of damage absorption from it. A very short CD sprint with snare suppressant, and since DK's are more concerned with closing gaps than opening them, a 25 second CD gap closer that can be used as many times as possible within 3 seconds after each use as well as the option for an AoE one.

EDIT: Last time I played my DK actively was in cata where Lichborne was baseline. Fixed my mistake.
Edited by Kryia on 4/25/2013 10:45 AM PDT
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95 Orc Shaman
8975
04/25/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Kryia
Two baseline CC breaks, another two from talents,


A very short CD sprint with snare suppressant


04/25/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Kryia
25 second CD gap closer that can be used as many times as possible within 3 seconds after each use


wat
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
15120
I should hope so! Rets don't want to open gaps, they want to close them. You are comparing a Melee and a Ranged.


rets can't tank physical damage the way other melee can, so yes, they do need gap openers.

In the end, Ret still has Bubble. An oh sh*t button. Shaman don't have any such button


bubble is a terrible defensive cooldown. you can have bubble if i can have sham rage and tremor totem.

do you know why people train the hell out of ele shamans? because a free casting elemental shaman will blow you up very very quickly. ele ascendance burst is some of the scariest burst in the game.
if you want to be trained less, you probably will have to give up some of that damage. do you want to give up damage?
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100 Orc Shaman
13825


do you know why people train the hell out of ele shamans? because a free casting elemental shaman will blow you up very very quickly. ele ascendance burst is some of the scariest burst in the game.
if you want to be trained less, you probably will have to give up some of that damage. do you want to give up damage?


I bet you a Frost/Fire Mage, Arms Warrior, or Rogue can 100-0 somebody quicker than a Shaman can, without having to cast the entire time. And here's the kicker, the Frost Mage can do it once a minute. The Ele? Every three minutes. Not saying that Ele should be like Mage, but, "Because Ascendance" is the worst argument ever. Ele Ascendance, unlike Enhance, is stupidly easy to counter. It's only scary in random battlegrounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zgdqN2u7yZY#t=50s

Also, here's a video displaying burst times for various specs/classes. It's a Swifty video, so you've gotta take it with a grain of salt. For example, the timer didn't start until Frost Bomb was up for the fire Mage, and they obviously already had a stack of Heating Up. But this video still illustrates other classes bursting faster than an Ele. Some of which can do it more frequently as well.
Edited by Mungoh on 4/25/2013 10:16 AM PDT
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90 Undead Death Knight
5020
04/25/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Kryia


What do I have?


One baseline CC breaks, another two from talents, magic debuff immunity for 7 seconds every 45 with a notable amount of damage absorption from it. A very short CD sprint with snare suppressant, and since DK's are more concerned with closing gaps than opening them, a 25 second CD gap closer that can be used as many times as possible within 3 seconds after each use as well as the option for an AoE one.

EDIT: Last time I played my DK actively was in cata where Lichborne was baseline. Fixed my mistake.


We have a lot of CC breakers because we have next to no CC. And we still have the worst survivability in the game.
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90 Undead Death Knight
5020
04/25/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Kryia
a 25 second CD gap closer that can be used as many times as possible within 3 seconds after each use


Actually no, you can only cast it once more within 3 secs with the set bonus.
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90 Draenei Shaman
3605


Really?

...

...

Really?

Bubble? Freedom? You have better CC?


I was being sarcastic but if you really want me to list your escape mechanics:

Ghost wolf GCD

Tremor totem not only breaks them out of cc but their allies as well 1min cd

Earthgrab totem + call of elements 30 sec 3min cd

Astral Shift and Shamanic Rage 2m and 1m CD

Earthbind totem 30 sec cd


Ghost wolf is not a valid escape mechanism with the frequent CC you get in this game. Please.

Tremor totem will remove cc yes, however it cannot be used while silenced AND cc can be reapplied instantly.

Astral shift must be specc'd into and that's still not enough

Shamanic rage while useful does nothing when most classes have almost 100% uptime on shaman.

Earth grab totem. Are you kidding me? You can just target the totem and kill it.

Call of the elements. Yay, we can do it again...only to have you kill the totem. Again.

Every single one of our defenses are either easily countered by any down syndrome afflicted 10 year old or never enough because we cannot peel anything off of us. Healing doesn't count.

One baseline CC breaks, another two from talents, magic debuff immunity for 7 seconds every 45 with a notable amount of damage absorption from it. A very short CD sprint with snare suppressant, and since DK's are more concerned with closing gaps than opening them, a 25 second CD gap closer that can be used as many times as possible within 3 seconds after each use as well as the option for an AoE one.


While also offering some of the strongest burst in the game+ fantastic utility that's not easily countered by an auto attack.
Edited by Procellá on 4/25/2013 10:41 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
04/25/2013 10:25 AMPosted by Messorem
a 25 second CD gap closer that can be used as many times as possible within 3 seconds after each use


Actually no, you can only cast it once more within 3 secs with the set bonus.


What could be more important in those slots for a DK besides the PvP gear?
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90 Undead Death Knight
5020
04/25/2013 10:44 AMPosted by Kryia


Actually no, you can only cast it once more within 3 secs with the set bonus.


What could be more important in those slots for a DK besides the PvP gear?


Wha?
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