Profession Leveling must be updated.

42 Night Elf Monk
8235
Professions as a whole need a lot of attention. But the worst thing about them right now is the leveling process. Using this character as the example - I have Skinning and Leatherworking, an intended combination. There are two major problems:

1. The amount of leather you get from leveling skinning is nowhere near enough to level Leatherworking. Once you have leveled your Skinning skill to the point where the next skill-ups come from mobs that drop Medium Leather (for example), you have maybe half of the Light Leather you need to level Leatherworking, if that. The result is that you have to endlessly grind mobs that no longer give Skinning skill OR XP in order to scrape together enough leather to level Leatherworking. The other option is to buy it all on the AH, but that's not how it should have to work.

2. Once you grind up all of that leather, you make gear that is completely useless. The crafted items from 0-60 have never been changed since the original release of WoW. But the leveling process has been sped up, quest and dungeon rewards have been improved, and so on. The stuff you make while leveling crafting professions is completely useless to you, and nobody wants to buy it either.

The process needs to be streamlined, and the results need to be useful while you're leveling. The amount of leather/ore/herbs/etc required for the patterns you make while leveling crafting professions needs to be dramatically reduced, and should be balanced around the amount of those materials you naturally accumulate while leveling the gathering professions. The things you make should be useful, and it wouldn't hurt if the look of the items was improved from the 8 year old stuff still in the game either.
Edited by Rathnight on 4/6/2013 4:20 PM PDT
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The eight year old stuff is useless. You know the game didn't start off with a max level of 90. I agree, leatherworking is one of the most painful professions to level. However, Blizzard has done many things to make the process easier than it used to be. You used to have to pick one of three branches of leatherworking. Now, you don't have to worry about it.

Here's a hint to make this easier for you. Drop your crafting professions for now, while leveling to 90. Crafting professions while leveling is nothing but a massive gold sink that slows down your leveling speed and also makes you consume gold that you will need when you get to max level. Get two gathering professions instead. Sell everything you gather. Once level 90 and have a good nest egg of gold. Then go back and level your crafting professions of your choice. Crafting professions, even in classic 8 years ago, have always been easier and faster to level when you are maximum level.
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professions are fine. I usually wait til I'm max level for a easier grind on stuff
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42 Night Elf Monk
8235
The eight year old stuff is useless. You know the game didn't start off with a max level of 90. I agree, leatherworking is one of the most painful professions to level. However, Blizzard has done many things to make the process easier than it used to be. You used to have to pick one of three branches of leatherworking. Now, you don't have to worry about it.

Here's a hint to make this easier for you. Drop your crafting professions for now, while leveling to 90. Crafting professions while leveling is nothing but a massive gold sink that slows down your leveling speed and also makes you consume gold that you will need when you get to max level. Get two gathering professions instead. Sell everything you gather. Once level 90 and have a good nest egg of gold. Then go back and level your crafting professions of your choice. Crafting professions, even in classic 8 years ago, have always been easier and faster to level when you are maximum level.


You're describing strategies for dealing with flawed game design. I'm saying they should fix it. It would be as easy as reducing the material cost of low level crafting patterns.
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It would have been nice to re-balance the professions, at least 1-300, when Cata was being developed. But we have heard that the project turned out to be more massive then originally intended.

However at this point, it is more then likely that Blizzard is accepting that WoW is an end-game game, and they seem to be accelerating the leveling process to 600 rather then adjusting leveling content.
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90 Human Hunter
10805
Though what is the point of having professions at max level for most players? Most of us can't make anything useful in the window that it is valuable. Except for enchants, some scribe items and perhaps belt buckles.
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43 Worgen Mage
3185
The other option is to buy it all on the AH, but that's not how it should have to work.

The amount of leather/ore/herbs/etc required for the patterns you make while leveling crafting professions needs to be dramatically reduced, and should be balanced around the amount of those materials you naturally accumulate while leveling the gathering professions. The things you make should be useful...


Where are you getting all these "should" statements? Is there a book somewhere I'm missing?

I think when you decided what professions to start, you assumed (with NO basis) that the amount of leather needed to advance skinning "should" match the amount needed to advance leatherworking. When the game didn't match this assumption -- that you made up out of thin air -- you complain the game is broken.

But the game wasn't designed around your assumption. There's another factor. As people XP level, it is very frustrating if the zones they are now in are full of Herbs, Ore or Skinnable mobs that are too hgih for them. They have to waste levelling time going back to lower zones just to get their gathering skill up to what they'll encounter in normal levelling.

To avoid that, Blizzard made it easier/faster to level the gathering professions.

THAT is where the balance was made -- NOT matching the gathering to the corresponding crafting, but matching it to the character XP levelling progression. Most players aren't levelling their Skinning and Leatherworking from 1 up with a character that is already 90. They are doing it as they XP level from 1 to 90, which takes a whole lot longer.
Edited by Foxwizard on 4/7/2013 11:52 AM PDT
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43 Worgen Mage
3185
The purpose of learning leatherworking is NOT to level leatherworking!

The purpose is to be able to craft leather items. That is what it is in the game for.

So once you have learned "light leather" recipes, you are able to make them over and over for years. That is why you learned them. That is the ONLY reason you learned them.

And that requires gathering or buying more light leather -- for years. There is no way you can get ALL you will eventually use by the time you've advanced skinning to where you get heavy leather, or whatever it is you're complaining about. You will ALWAYS need to spend time gathering mats (or buying them) for the sole purpose of getting mats you need to craft things you want to craft.

That's the basic design of the professions. Stop complaining about it.

If you, as an individual, are only crafting light leather stuff to advance your leatherworking to craft higher stuff, that's your problem. Don't expect the game to be designed around you. And don't expect the game to be designed as if level 90 characters with 600 crafting were all that is important. A game like that would suck. This one is designed to be equally playable at level 5, 15, or 40.
Edited by Foxwizard on 4/7/2013 11:50 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
16070
Though what is the point of having professions at max level for most players? Most of us can't make anything useful in the window that it is valuable. Except for enchants, some scribe items and perhaps belt buckles.


Millions and millions of gold works for me. There's plenty of value to be had. You simply have to do a bit of research or gameplay to find it.

Your list of consumables is tiny. Enlarge it.
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43 Worgen Mage
3185
I saw a sentence by Jozie in another thread that may apply here, and summarizes what it would take me 100s of words to say:

"Blizzard no longer intends for players to be self-sufficient in a multi-player game."
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49 Draenei Priest
1505
i couldn't agree more. Blizzard wants the money...update update update!!!!
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55 Orc Death Knight
7370
Look at the new 5.2 way to level Blacksmithing; you have to get to 85, go to the veil and make grey items with no pretence at being useful - you just take 700g of ghost iron and make a grey you vendor for 1g. Similarly, at 85 you can go to one vendor and train cooking; no effort at making it useful 1-85.

04/06/2013 04:16 PMPosted by Rathnight
The other option is to buy it all on the AH, but that's not how it should have to work.


To have a robust economy, that is exactly how it should usually work. In fact a sophisticated economy would require you to buy multiple items from different professions to make gear (and they would need to buy stuff from you.) E.g., in olden times a LW needed iron buckles from a BS to level. If every LW did not need to buy any leather, how would people make gold as a skinner?

In a world of BoA's, there is a lot less demand for 1-85 gear. Once the new xpac is in beta the time to level from 1-85 will again be decreased. I,e, cheap people will be even less likely to buy something for a few minutes at that level. It would be nice if the professions were useful as you level, but that seems very low on the priority list. E.g., they should spend the effort on max-level professions first.

I think many people have professions for the end-game buff, not what they can make. You are unlikely to get past LFR without wanting the bonus. I actually think most people level the profession once they are 90. Unless you are RPing, it is easier to wait (and more profitable to dual gather until 90.)

I saw a sentence by Jozie in another thread that may apply here, and summarizes what it would take me 100s of words to say:

"Blizzard no longer intends for players to be self-sufficient in a multi-player game."

Except I do not understand/agree with this. I see no evidence of intent. Nor do I see any evidence of this: Vanilla WoW had a bit more interdependence than MoP: e.g. LW needing belt buckles for BS, etc. Unfortunately, I see nothing added in MoP to make professions more interdependent.

A good economy would have lots of interaction amongst the professions. Other games now allow you to get leveling XP with crafting. I think it is more accurate to say Blizzard just does not put a high priority on professions. We did not even get a new one this xpac. And last xpac was Archy so ...
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90 Human Hunter
10805
04/07/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Higeki
Millions and millions of gold works for me. There's plenty of value to be had. You simply have to do a bit of research or gameplay to find it.


A few can make that, but you are being a special snowflake here. It is largely useless to most of us.
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90 Tauren Hunter
10095
04/07/2013 03:16 PMPosted by Flopsyhunt
Millions and millions of gold works for me. There's plenty of value to be had. You simply have to do a bit of research or gameplay to find it.


A few can make that, but you are being a special snowflake here. It is largely useless to most of us.

Higeki is only being a special snowflake due to having put forth the effort to learn his/her markets and take the initiative to start selling in those markets...which is the exact same thing every single other player in the game can do if they want to....those who say it's largely useless to most of the player base are the special snowflakes who feel they are entitled and shouldn't have to put forth any effort to achieve anything in the game....
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90 Human Hunter
10805
which is the exact same thing every single other player in the game can do if they want to


Some can, but everyone could not as there is not that much opportunity in the system. Some is there, but making another job out of professions instead of something fun that complements the game is not good game design. That is the root problem.

Very few things are craftable that have value now, beyond what I mentioned already.
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Very few things are craftable that have value now, beyond what I mentioned already.


You're wrong. Very, very wrong. I have made millions of gold from professions, the vast majority of it making things not on your list.

A short list:

Darkmoon trinkets
PvP armor
Epic armor
Bags
Shirts
BS Transmog weapons (phantom blade, felsteel longblade, khorium champion, ect)
BS Transmog armor (Enchanted Thorium, Imperial Plate)
Pets of all kinds
Tinkers
Ghost Iron Dragonlings

Tons more. The fact that you have not made the effort to learn how to make gold with professions does not mean it cannot be done. If you do not know how you would be better served by asking "how do I improve?" rather than saying "they're useless"
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I saw a sentence by Jozie in another thread that may apply here, and summarizes what it would take me 100s of words to say:

"Blizzard no longer intends for players to be self-sufficient in a multi-player game."

Ahh, you quoted me, that's so sweet.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
7185
What was the point of inscription? you make a glyph, learn said glyph and then what? nothing. its as useless as engineering for making gold. Blizzard should have just given those things to players without inventing a useless craft. That is truly one useless craft.
However...... there are professions that are worthwhile and make plenty of gold. Jewelcrafting for example. Enchanting is another. for you crafting 'useless' or invaluable items, try selling those to an enchanter or having an enchanter DE (disenchant) those for you and put the mats on the auction house. see what happens.
If Blizzard made the changes you suggest, there would be no need for an auction house. It helps the economy of the realm if you need to buy more mats than you can gather while questing, otherwise, whats the point of having gold?
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90 Pandaren Monk
10695
What was the point of inscription? you make a glyph, learn said glyph and then what? nothing. its as useless as engineering for making gold


so worthless ive sold over 4million gold worth of darkmoon decks at least 50% of which is profit and even though i havent focused much on glyphs in mop well over 200k probably ~80% profit. yep worthless profession.
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90 Human Hunter
10805


Very few things are craftable that have value now, beyond what I mentioned already.


You're wrong. Very, very wrong. I have made millions of gold from professions, the vast majority of it making things not on your list.

A short list:

Darkmoon trinkets
PvP armor
Epic armor
Bags
Shirts
BS Transmog weapons (phantom blade, felsteel longblade, khorium champion, ect)
BS Transmog armor (Enchanted Thorium, Imperial Plate)
Pets of all kinds
Tinkers
Ghost Iron Dragonlings

Tons more. The fact that you have not made the effort to learn how to make gold with professions does not mean it cannot be done. If you do not know how you would be better served by asking "how do I improve?" rather than saying "they're useless"


Try making DMF trinkets now. They don't sell for nearly as much IF they sell at all. And the competition is more intense now, so the prices and margins are lower. That is my point.

I have had a Magic Lantern relisting for months now, so not all pets sell well. Most of the items you mentioned sell well for a while and then drop off. The profit margins also drop (reasonably so) for those items over time as well, as more try to compete in the market. I could tie up a lot of time and stock/gold trying to compete there, but I would rather play that play the "relist to undercut the guy who just undercut me" game all the time.

You just reinforce my point. None of those could handle a massive increase in the number of participants and still make much gold.
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