The Alliance: Giving in to our Troll lords

90 Undead Mage
11950
Pyron,

You are talking to a taped recording here ! No matter what you say or explain , each time it will say the same thing... Over and Over... You should not expect to have a meaningful conversation with a taped recording !

For example: Each time you explain something, Quirnheim will type two sentences and drive the topic off in a tangent.

Many here are unable to take the game as a game. They want a single player game where their actions have amounted to a decisive victory and nothing else. Be damned the other faction players. They want to play "THEIR" game and not the game that Blizzard has built. ( Disclaimer: That does not mean you are not to comment or offer suggestions. Its exactly the opposite , You are perfectly allowed to do it but that doesn't mean you get to drive the story to fit your imagination. The story is driven to fit Blizzard's).

They will keep talking about losing zones to Horde , but you will not hear a squeak about how Horde had fewer lower level zones compared to Alliance pre cataclysm. They lost zones , that is all they care about. They don't care about gameplay or convenience. It should be all about their faction and it's storyline.

Funnily, about Stonard (A Medium level zone where they gained more access). The Alliance did not even have a PROPER ALLIANCE town there pre cata and they do now ! But no, they sacked Stonard and hence the zone belongs to Alliance as such. Be damned the fact that the Horde questline shows another side to their questline.
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
Personally I think having two different "cutscenes" after the Siege might help. They can have Vol'jin have his moment but the Alliance needs to come away from the battle with more than just their own casualties and a new leader to reunite the Horde.


I've heard about the patch notes, and how the Alliance will be sneaking around Durotar while the Rebels assault Razor Hill. I think this is going about it backwards. I'd feel it was much more appropriate for numbers involved and forces available if the Alliance landed hard and established a toehold, putting the Kor'Kron's attention on the sea, while Vol'jin and the Horde rebels snuck behind enemy lines, sabotaging, assassinating, and releasing prisoners. After all, who is likely to blend in better? Besides, the roles seem to suit the personalities of those involved better. Vol'jin's a shadow hunter, who relies on stealth and trickery. Varian is a warrior, who goes in screaming with a big old sword.

This would also probably stop some of the complaints about Vol'jin's attitude. If the Alliance land hard in Durotar and start pressing northward, Vol'jin could appear and offer information and limited assitance in a task in which the Alliance has already set itself to. If the Alliance questions his use then, he can use the response about disappearing and showing up to kill both sides without people freaking out. It also gives the Alliance a reason to not just put everyone in Orgrimmar to the sword (aside from Varian being such a SWELL GUY). In this theoretical, the rebel's aid would severely reduce Alliance casualties and make the removal of Garrosh that much quicker and safer. That's worth showing a touch of restraint afterwards.

My point is, I think it would make much more sense (and potentially reduce the shrieking) if Varian was the one who delivered the shove to Garrosh with Vol'jin being behind his knees than the other way around.
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90 Undead Priest
10355
Waaaaaaaah we haven't won yet, waaaaaaaaaaah. QQ
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90 Orc Warrior
11095
Silverwing Outpost still conquered by the Horde

all but taken back

Hellscream's Watch still sieging Astranaar

wrong

04/17/2013 02:36 PMPosted by Quard
and the force that attacked Splintertree Post completely wiped out

back under siege

in addition, the lumber camp has never been under more pressure

In Stonetalon, the orcs are dismantled by Garrosh, not the Alliance, and the zone ends before any theoretical Alliance counter-attack. IF the Alliance is capable of gaining the upper hand there, it's not shown.

The main horde offensive in stonetalon is the bomb, which is wasted. Meanwhile the alliance is actually making effective attacks against the horde, especially after allying with the grimtotem

Swamp of Sorrows was a pathetic excuse for a victory, with us not dealing any real damage to the Horde. On top of that, in the Horde side questing the Orcs won.

Just because the horde player eventually drove off the attackers does not negate the fact you attacked Stonard, not the area around stonard, and killed men and destroyed supplies

I don't recall any fighting in Feralas. There was DEFINITELY no fighting in Badlands, and in Thousand Needles the factions were mostly cooperating (and I think mirrored quests?)

He's probably referring to the massive army the alliance player amasses and there is no equivalent horde side army.

Southern Barrens is a horrible stalemate, with massive losses on both sides.

The very fact that the alliance is there is a victory. Just because horde lose a mine and alliance lose a fortified dwarven base at the end doesn't negate the previous gains the alliance has made

The Alliance is slaughtered in Durotar, and deal absolutely no damage to the Horde.

wrong
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90 Undead Mage
11950
Sad , but true ! Grimauna's idea seems a very bold and inquisitive one rather than the one currently on PTR.

Well said Grimauna. I really liked your post.

I still don't understand why Vol'jin is showing his hand so early in the fight. As of now, he doesn't have the necessary army to fight Garrosh yet. The Taurens are not ready , BE and Forsaken are across the sea !
Edited by Maayagni on 4/17/2013 3:01 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
11095
5.3 is all about harassment tactics, so alliance forces making landfall in large number doesn't really fit
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
Oh Story Forum you never disappoint, still petty arguing over symptoms of the problem rather then the problem and insulting each other rather then trying to have an actual dialogue.
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90 Undead Mage
11950
So far, no daily quest hub has been placed so close to any Capital city. Even SSO was an isle away. How this is going to pan out in future , I am not certain. The quest hubs are not going to disappear after Mists and the Alliance will have a new front to hide and harass Orgrimmar with a Sanctuary being added in a Horde starting zone.
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90 Undead Mage
11950
Oh Story Forum you never disappoint, still petty arguing over symptoms of the problem rather then the problem and insulting each other rather then trying to have an actual dialogue.


Classic Example of the above statement below

04/17/2013 02:15 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
The Alliance neutralizes Stonard and claims the Swamp of Sorrows.


I love how you keep using this as one of your examples when it's entirely false. Seriously, do the quests on both sides.

At any rate I'm not here to argue how wrong and biased you are when trying to objectively say anything about the Alliance and Horde conflict.

The facts are you can make up all the excuses, justifications and throw all your exasperated talk at the Alliance side of this debate all you like, it doesn't change what the current state in WoW is.

It doesn't matter if the Alliance is winning, it doesn't matter if the Alliance isn't simply a big plot device for the Horde story.

What matters is how the Alliance player base feels and how it feels to be a hardcore Alliance fan in Warcraft.

That is what the joystick articles were getting at and that is the problem.

We as players don't even know about half our victories. They either happen in material outside of the game entirely or they're shown to the Horde player only.

For the past two expansion at least we have always been the afterthought. Where the Horde side gets fleshed out and thought provoking experiences weaved into the game we get whatever there is time for.

Why isn't Ashenvale phased to show that we control it? Why isn't Gilneas full of Gilneans holding the line against the Forsaken?

Why is the Alliance always where the corners are cut? Why do we always get the "Sorry we didn't have enough time." excuse? Why in the hell do I need to read a book or play a Horde character to know what is happening with my faction?

Why is our content always cut? Why was our Twilight Highlands intro cut out among other things? Why is the Horde content the first thing completed before the Alliance content gets touched?

It's to the point that they just copy and paste Horde dialogue onto Alliance NPC's. It's lazy and it's disrespectful to half your player base.

Why are we spending more time working with Horde faction leaders then with our own damn faction? Why aren't we conducting our own operations? Why aren't our leaders out there in the field?

Why the hell am I getting a pep talk in the freaking mail from Varian while I play champion to a freaking Horde rebellion to help them solve their problems?

This is not about Alliance destroying or "beating" the Horde, this is not about the other side having shinier toys.

It's about the Alliance having nothing of their own. I'm tired of riding in the wake of Horde story lines, I'm tired of being the Hordes side kick.

I want to be the Alliance and I want the developers to treat my faction with the same respect and give it the same effort that they do the Horde.

And they don't.

5.3 like the rest of Mists is a Horde story when the Alliance was promised their moment in the sun. The Horde is going through a grand and dynamic change, they are defining what they are and what they will be in the future.

The Alliance are doing nothing, they're just being tacked on for the Hordes ride.

I really do envy the Horde fan and often wish I could be one myself.
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90 Human Paladin
12165
Cadenbrie pretty much has it. Losing isn't the end of the world. I can deal with some losses. I'd just like my story to be an engaging as the Horde's. It's pretty obvious that their story gets more effort. All I want is equal treatment.
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90 Orc Warrior
11095
Cadenbrie pretty much has it. Losing isn't the end of the world. I can deal with some losses. I'd just like my story to be an engaging as the Horde's. It's pretty obvious that their story gets more effort. All I want is equal treatment.


where is the hordes story developed?
where is all this extra effort?

The main development the horde story has gotten is the fact that the horde was one way, and now its another

edit: like I've said before, if you don't like the direction the alliance is headed, fine. But claims of bias are just pointless noise
Edited by Shippyship on 4/17/2013 3:29 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
All I want is equal treatment.


Alright. Next patch Varian gets to go crazy and drag the Alliance on a wacky trip through the Seven Stages of becoming a raid boss.

The hoops they drag us through... Are you sure you want the attention? At this point, I'm almost willing to go back to benign neglect like Wrath.
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90 Undead Mage
11950
Her entire arguments are based on " Blizzard favors Horde " and other assumptions. She is not seeing past those blinders.

Agreed that Alliance could have had better questlines (same goes for the Horde too btw) but it does not mean that Blizzard hates Alliance !!! She is not able to see past certain important things.

1. Any action by either faction has always been a reaction to the Antagonists' actions. In all previous expansions , it was always an Non playable faction/Character. Only in this expansion has it become a playable faction (Well , in 5.3 it will become a non playable faction as well).

2. She is acting out like a nihilist. Whenever something she liked did not happen, then nothing happened ! Something did happen but according to her it did not happen because she did not like it her way ! For example : Splintertree post is still assaulted even though we stop it, just like how Astranaar is still being firebombed.

3. She is unable to differentiate gameplay from Storyline!

4. Her assumptions of bias and others
For examples:
"It's about the Alliance having nothing of their own. I'm tired of riding in the wake of Horde story lines, I'm tired of being the Hordes side kick." - Her assumptions being protrayed as truth. Nowhere before has a playable faction been made a side kick to another playable faction. Nowhere before has a playable faction Capital has been made as an end game raid. Nowhere before has a playable faction splintered to such a magnitude.

Why is our content always cut? Why was our Twilight Highlands intro cut out among other things? Why is the Horde content the first thing completed before the Alliance content gets touched?
Seriously? Whenever I am coding and implementing something, my first implementation code is what I would consider a dud a week later when I look at it again! I tend to find so many issues and lapses in it that I usually correct when I work on anything after that. She has also assumed that Horde content is always done first. I also tend to use the first codes' highlights and successes in the next one. Saves me a lot of time and effort !

Many of the Horde players (Lore junkies, at least) joined up because of Thrall's Horde! We were force-fed Garrosh . It honestly was not a pleasant experience for many of us. We were supposed to be the underdogs who fight for a place in Azeroth. However, for the last two expansions we have become it's aggressors and destroyers acting on behalf of the Warchief.
Edited by Maayagni on 4/17/2013 4:12 PM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
11950
Oh. I do believe that Alliance should get a different storyline in 5.3 as well that fits its style. I certainly wouldn't do 5.3 if the situation was reversed. You certainly have my support for that.

I, however will not agree with "Blizzard favors Horde over Alliance" theories.
Edited by Maayagni on 4/17/2013 4:27 PM PDT
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2 Undead Warrior
0
For example: Each time you explain something, Quirnheim will type two sentences and drive the topic off in a tangent.


I like muffins. They don't have blue muffins. I hate muffins.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
So, uh, the alliance title in 5.3 is "the Hordebreaker."
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
So, uh, the alliance title in 5.3 is "the Hordebreaker."

Frankly, I was sort of expecting something along the lines of "Agent Provocateur", but I suppose that works too.

Curious to see how people react to it.
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So, uh, the alliance title in 5.3 is "the Hordebreaker."


Hah! I like it.

Alliance arrogance at its best.

The name and all it implies is just brilliant.
Edited by Brukk on 4/17/2013 4:40 PM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
11950
04/17/2013 04:33 PMPosted by Quirnheim
For example: Each time you explain something, Quirnheim will type two sentences and drive the topic off in a tangent.


I like muffins. They don't have blue muffins. I hate muffins.


Well , We were talking about Twinkies !!
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90 Undead Mage
11950
inb4 , the word "Horde" in an Alliance title :)

I hope we get "The Horde Revolutionary" instead of "The Darkspear Revolutionary".
Edited by Maayagni on 4/17/2013 4:46 PM PDT
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