The Alliance: Giving in to our Troll lords

90 Orc Warlock
10490
So, uh, the alliance title in 5.3 is "the Hordebreaker."


Aww, I want that title.

Why does Blizzard love the Alliance so much more? They get all the cool titles. First, "Of Ironforge," now this? So lame.

inb4 , the word "Horde" in an Alliance title :)


Aww man, I took that a completely different direction. I like yours more.
Edited by Grimauna on 4/17/2013 4:46 PM PDT
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Can we get a similarly thematically consistent title on Horde?

like "the Alliancetickler"?
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94 Orc Warrior
11550
[the raid gets Garrosh down to 1%. In desperation he completely consumed the heart, becoming some giant monster and begins channeling a spell that paralyzes the raid and is about to wipe it]

[a blast of light comes from off screen interrupting the spell, players still cannot move]

Anduin: Bolvar is dead, he's no longer here. However, on my back,
within my heart,
he continues to live on!

Garrosh: What? What are you blathering about?

Anduin: Who the hell do you think I am?
I'm Anduin
Not my friend, Bolvar
I am myself, Prince Anduin!

Certain Kill!

Giga....

Horde......

BREAKER!!!!!
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100 Tauren Death Knight
17445
In Ashenvale, after the quests there, we still have less territory than Vanilla
That's sort of the point....
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
all but taken back


Ha, what quests did you do?

wrong


The Alliance never had any kind of attack on Hellscream's watch. While we fought off the wind riders, there's nothing stopping the Horde from getting more and attacking again.

back under siege

in addition, the lumber camp has never been under more pressure


If Splintertree is back under siege, it's only because Blizzard didn't phase it properly. And, oooooh, pressure, that makes me feel like a winner.

The main horde offensive in stonetalon is the bomb, which is wasted. Meanwhile the alliance is actually making effective attacks against the horde, especially after allying with the grimtotem


They still manage to kill a ton of civilians with the bomb, which might not help the Horde's war efforts, but still kinda makes us feel like losers. The whole Alliance storyline in respect to that damn bomb is one of us failing time and time again to stop it. Wheeeeeee.

Just because the horde player eventually drove off the attackers does not negate the fact you attacked Stonard, not the area around stonard, and killed men and destroyed supplies


I want to reiterate that, in the end, I still count it as a victory. It's still a really pathetic one. The Horde's victories tend to be more... crushing.

He's probably referring to the massive army the alliance player amasses and there is no equivalent horde side army.


The Alliance army seems to be entirely focused on fighting Naga. It'd be great if we saw this army suddenly attack the Horde, but I'm not holding my breath.

The very fact that the alliance is there is a victory. Just because horde lose a mine and alliance lose a fortified dwarven base at the end doesn't negate the previous gains the alliance has made


Ok, fine. The very fact that the Horde is in Swamp of Sorrows, Arathi, Ashenvale, STV, Badlands, Felwood, etc. must be a great victory for the Horde, then, huh? The very fact that the Horde is there should be a victory for them, right?

wrong


You may need to provide something to back up your statement. The Horde gets quests to kill a ton of Alliance. There is nothing to suggest that they fail in this. At best, the Alliance is able to resupply with more troops to be killed. The Alliance is not able to mount a single offensive on any Horde settlements, much less succeed at them.

When I made that first post, I wanted to edit it, but then the forum did something stupid and then I forgot about it. Anyway, I wanted to point out that a lot of people complain about the presentation of the story for the Alliance. It's a legitimate complaint. It's probably the most important problem with the Alliance. It's also a separate issue from what I'm talking about in this thread. Recently, I've just seen so very many people, mostly Horde, saying that the Alliance "won" Cataclysm. It's just a claim that I really don't see any evidence for.

TL;DR

-Cataclysm did not go well for the Alliance Military
-The main problem for the Alliance is Presentation
-Alliance victories, or lack thereof, is a separate issue from Presentation, but is still a legitimate one, alongside other things such as lack of non-Human races getting lore, lack of non-Human faction leaders doing anything, getting strung along in Horde plots, lack of any real factional storylines or themes
-I wouldn't know how to spell legitimate without Chrome spellchecking for me
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94 Orc Warrior
11550
Ha, what quests did you do?

the ones in which I killed the water elementals, the only reason horde was able to take the place. The ones were I disabled the skunkworks. The ones were I instigated a furbolg prison break. The ones where I just plain killed dudes. I think the better question would be which quests did you do?

The Alliance never had any kind of attack on Hellscream's watch. While we fought off the wind riders, there's nothing stopping the Horde from getting more and attacking again.

except no more bombs from the skunkworks, which again, the alliance player disables

If Splintertree is back under siege, it's only because Blizzard didn't phase it properly. And, oooooh, pressure, that makes me feel like a winner.

I've already said many times in the past, that alliance quests didn't get the same polish as horde, just as alliance had superior questing in Vanilla. It's unrelated to what actually happens in ashenvale and claims of "losing everywhere" are pointless

They still manage to kill a ton of civilians with the bomb, which might not help the Horde's war efforts, but still kinda makes us feel like losers. The whole Alliance storyline in respect to that damn bomb is one of us failing time and time again to stop it. Wheeeeeee.

technically you failed once, not so that the horde would succeed but so that krom'gar specifically and a portion of the horde in general would look evil, the beginnings of the "lawful good overdrive" alliance's antagonist. and we both agree it had no military effect on the zone

Ok, fine. The very fact that the Horde is in Swamp of Sorrows, Arathi, Ashenvale, STV, Badlands, Felwood, etc. must be a great victory for the Horde, then, huh? The very fact that the Horde is there should be a victory for them, right?


No. It should be very obvious what I mean if you didn't so dearly want to be losing everywhere. Pre Cata, there was bael modan. Post cata the alliance marched in, destroyed camp t, took honor stand, and was in a position to march on crossroads. It took the cataclysm to stop the alliance advance, not the horde. A horde general is killed because of how well the alliance is doing

You may need to provide something to back up your statement. The Horde gets quests to kill a ton of Alliance. There is nothing to suggest that they fail in this.


http://www.wowhead.com/quest=25168

A battle well-fought, <class>, but I still have my doubts about our effectiveness. These humans don't seem to be going anywhere.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
I don't have time to continue to prove you people wrong on every single point, but there's one I'll do real quick.

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=25168

A battle well-fought, <class>, but I still have my doubts about our effectiveness. These humans don't seem to be going anywhere.


Did you click the next quest in the chain? It specifically says that the humans are defeated, albeit temporarily, and then sends the player off to get help from the orcs. Given that in 5.3 we don't see any sign of those Alliance soldiers, I'd say the orcs were able to wipe them out fully.
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100 Goblin Rogue
8055
For the love of freaking god...

"Waah waah the Horde took some zones from me in cata! not fair Horde bias!!1"

Shut the hell up and let me take you on a tour of enlightenment.

Now little Alliance player, the zones you whine about us taking we NEEDED. Why did we need it?

Because you had more lower level zones than us, and this is a game with two player factions, not just one faction and npcs.

Equality in gameplay is NEEDED so they switched the zones around so we would have more levelling zones same as you Alliance players.

NO! Stop right there! do not go for the keyboard and start !@#$%ing about how gameplay shouldnt affect lore or some other crap like that..

Face. The. Facts. Gameplay comes first and the Horde needed those zones to balance them with the Alliance. We are not just NPC antagonists we are a faction of players same as you who want to enjoy the game.

Now to add something else..

You Alliance need to calm the hell down. Seriously. You know what you come across in these threads? a bunch of whiny kids with illogical and borderline psychotic 'improvements' to the story.

No. You will not be forcing the Horde back from these zones because we need them to balance the gameplay.

No. You will not enslave the Horde or enjoy some greenskin genocide because as stated above the Horde are players as well.

No. You will not destroy Orgrimmar because it is our chief city. Theramore didnt matter in gameplay as much because it was a small quest hub while Orgrimmar is the heart of the Horde, you will not smash it into dust while screaming 'ALLIANCE FTW!'

No. You will not see any changes to the old world to represent these changes because we just revamped the whole world an expansion ago and Blizz sure as hell isnt doing it again so soon.

and to top it all off...

No. You will not get any other stupid suggestions I have missed because they are stupid and you should feel stupid for suggesting them in the first place. No dont look at me like that go sit in the god damn corner and think about what you're doing.

Now the idiot Alliance fanboys are taken care of..

The Alliance need to see their victories more, they did happen but its a problem you have to go outside the game to get important lore.

Races beside human need more face time, now the Pandaren were just released this expac so to help solve this..no new races for the next couple of expansions. Focus on adding lore to the ones we have already. Spend the manpower you were going to use making these new races fleshing out the factions other races (and maybe giving the Bilgewater Cartel a faction leader huh? *wink wink*)

Burning Crusade starting zones need to be updated. NOT OUTLAND (though that could be a bonus). We need to see the Exodar flying, we need to see Silvermoon somewhat rebuilt. We need to be able to FLY in these zones. Blood Elves have had some recent lore snacks so they dont need as much effort as the starving Draenei.

STOP PUTTING IMPORTANT LORE INTO EXTERIOR MEDIA. Unimportant, supplementary stuff? go for it. Important stuff should remain in game. WoW is a game, not a book or a comic, it is a game.
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94 Orc Warrior
11550
I don't have time to continue to prove you people wrong on every single point, but there's one I'll do real quick.


you didn't prove anything wrong. you were proven wrong. and your speculation on what might have happened in durotar mean squat
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Wolfheart happens before quest content


Wolfheart happens before


See the logic in this? BEFORE! When the questing goes down, we are losing. Try again.
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100 Troll Hunter
13645
See the logic in this? BEFORE! When the questing goes down, we are losing. Try again.

No. You beat us in Ashenvale questing.

Everything the Alliance player does is literally undoing things the Horde player does.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12450
04/17/2013 01:02 PMPosted by Pyronaptor
Don't mind Pyron. He's got a superiority complex so massive that if the Horde were assaulting Stormwind itself he'd still spin it as "Alliance is winning" somehow.

Everything I say is supported one way or another.

The Alliance was winning in Cataclysm. I KNOW IT WAS NOT WELL REPRESENTED, SO IT'S HARD TO KNOW WITHOUT HAVING READ THE BOOKS, but they were winning.


Alliance game Dev neglect is the greatest and most important victory the horde has over Alliance.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12450
The Alliance was winning in Cataclysm.

It was not well represented, but they were indeed winning. They were actively assaulting two Horde Starting Zones and pushed the Horde back on every front except Hillsbrad. Meanwhile, Stormwind and the other Alliance cities lived in safe security while Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff could have been attacked at any moment - And Orgrimmar, at one point, was attacked.

Tides of War made the war equal.


Oh what? It was all fair in a book? Doesn't count, we are alliance players, not readers.

Either show it via in game evidence or GTFO!
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12450
04/17/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
Thank you Kinria for saying what I was about to say. It is pretty obvious Kellick has no idea what he is talking about. Gilneas won? If you claim that lands overly destroyed by the plague is "won" then you are as insane as you claim I am. Durotaur has no Alliance presence anymore and neither does the barrens due to Tides of War. Claiming we "won" Darkshore is like claiming we have won Tel'Drassil. We already had it dude. If we are going by your standards, the Horde won Orgrimmar!


Gilneas was won by the Alliance, is 100% under Alliance control up to the wall, and there's no plague any more. Blizzard hasn't updated it,


THEN GTFO!
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12450
Garrosh is going to have an army empowered by an Old God and the highest powered Titan tech in the world. Alliance or Horde solo would lose horribly against him.

Also, I agree the game is too Horde Biased. We need to have a parallel. Where are my quests to kill all the Humans in Elywnn forest in 5.3 leading up to 5.4 when we raze SW and kill Varian?


But we aren't attacking the horde, we are helping them.

Garrosh stopped being the horde when the players started fighting with them. True Horde = however the players are with.

We are helping the horde players get rid of a leader they never wanted for one they do.

Spoilers

A basic camp fire for warchief.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
8325
If we were going to give in to troll overlords, we seriously dropped the ball.

We could have given in to the Zandalari, and been on the side with gigantic, armored, laser-spewing T-rexes and siege-breaking giant dire horns.

But nooooo....

We pick the side with normal sized raptors and merloc huts.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
12610
It takes some really impressively deluded thinking to imagine - contrary to what basically everyone else, from posters to blogs - that, from the unique perspective of Pyronaptor, the Alliance was winning Cataclysm.

When the whole bloody point of the expansion was "Garrosh takes advantage of the Cataclysm."

This is like someone looking back on Burning Crusade and going "Alliance Imperialism in Outlands! Together with Horde colonialism! Defend the unique culture of the demons of Outlands! Down with the fascist plutocrat running dog lackeys of anachronistic expansionist powers!"

Only from the most warped point of view does it make a lick of sense. To draw a RL comparison, it is like sitting in a chair in 1942, after half the Pacific falls to Japan and the Nihon Kaigun, and going "Doolittle raid hits Tokyo! We're ~WINNING~ guys!"

More to the damned point:

We're paying to play a game. If things aren't shown in the game they may as well not exist.
Alliance could have a super stardestroyer. If it isn't in game, who the hell cares?

The Alliance was winning in Cataclysm.

It was not well represented, but they were indeed winning. They were actively assaulting two Horde Starting Zones and pushed the Horde back on every front except Hillsbrad. Meanwhile, Stormwind and the other Alliance cities lived in safe security while Orgrimmar and Thunder Bluff could have been attacked at any moment - And Orgrimmar, at one point, was attacked.

Tides of War made the war equal.


Oh what? It was all fair in a book? Doesn't count, we are alliance players, not readers.

Either show it via in game evidence or GTFO!


I'm genuinely surprised. I've said this before, but Amathyst beat me to it. Cred where cred is due.

In Game or GTFO
Edited by Sardana on 4/18/2013 5:44 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Warrior
9275
[the raid gets Garrosh down to 1%. In desperation he completely consumed the heart, becoming some giant monster and begins channeling a spell that paralyzes the raid and is about to wipe it]

[a blast of light comes from off screen interrupting the spell, players still cannot move]

Anduin: Bolvar is dead, he's no longer here. However, on my back,
within my heart,
he continues to live on!

Garrosh: What? What are you blathering about?

Anduin: Who the hell do you think I am?
I'm Anduin
Not my friend, Bolvar
I am myself, Prince Anduin!

Certain Kill!

Giga....

Horde......

BREAKER!!!!!


Anti-Alliance!

Giga.....
Drill......
BREAKER!!!!!!
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