Holy pally tips and questions.

91 Orc Warrior
7530
So I had a few questions but this could also be a place to throw out general tips.
anyway 1 thing I've almost completely ignored but just started to think about again is crusaders strike.
I know HP is a big thing for holy healing but CS costs mana still and I guess unless you are running battle healer it does no healing and just generates HP. My question is that is it worth it to use CS on cooldown with HS to generate as much HP as possible or is it just mana inefficient.
another couple questions I haven't found out yet.
is the light of dawn glyph overall more healing done or is it a break even?
is divine purpose more effective with the T14 4pc then avenger CD in the same tier?
what is the thresh hold where 1 EF is more effective heals then 1 light of dawn?
does Hand of purity's dot reduction work with the stagger of brewmasters?
If you stay in melee range all fight how much healing will battle healer actually do?
Any pally tricks you found to help you in specific fights be them T14 or T15 fights?
I appreciate any and all answers and thanks for the time.
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100 Human Paladin
13090
1. Crusader strike. I'm iffy on this one. Technically yes it CAN do more healing.

Look at this: flat mana cost of CS = 9k, where as a holy shock = 9,600 mana.

EF heals for about 40k (for me) counting the tick heals. HOWEVER, crusader strike alone does no healing. So yes, you're getting a charge of HP, but compared to using holy shock you muss out on the healing from holy shock. So in the end it is a waste, however if you ABSOLUTELY need the holy power I say go for it. In general it's just not worth it at all. Like I said, if you absolutely must have the HP and holy shock is on CD then go ahead and risk it.

Battle healer does 30% of dmg done as healing to a nearby target. This one I'm not about since I don't exactly know how much melee dmg we do. Personally I think it's low and not exactly worth it as oppose to other glyphs. You'll be healing for an amount that's just so miniscule. I mean I melee for 1,700 dmg on the high end, which means I'm healing someone for 510, plus mastery (idk if it puts Illuminated healing on) but again, tiny tiny amount. But it could add up and be helpful.

For light of Dawn glyph I'd say use it if the fight requires it, maybe if there's harder AoE damage going on it would be worth it to heal less targets, but for more health. My LOD hits for 6,625 per charge, so about 39,750 total. Where as glyphed it would be 33,125. But you'd be healing each target for more :/ Not counting crits of course, which would mean glyphed it would crit for more, but I would imagine you have less overall crits hitting 2 fewer targets as oppose to 6 targets. Again, kind of depends on the fight.

Other than that idk. Sorry I couldn't help to much, but I hope I helped a little!
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91 Orc Warrior
7530
No that was great help.
as someone mentioned in another board it sucks we don't really have a math expert answering all these questions and having them all organized into a single board like EJ.

I may throw on battle healer 1 fight and stay in melee just to see how much healing I do with it with auto attacks and CS on cooldown.
Like you said over time it may add up into something.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19020
No that was great help.
as someone mentioned in another board it sucks we don't really have a math expert answering all these questions and having them all organized into a single board like EJ.


Ya, but in the meantime, I find Wards to be pretty trustworthy.

I may throw on battle healer 1 fight and stay in melee just to see how much healing I do with it with auto attacks and CS on cooldown.
Like you said over time it may add up into something.


WIth Kings, sitting on the raider's dummy for 10 minutes (Yes, insomnia is fun, thanks for asking), I am averaging 268 HP per second. I didn't use CS at all, sorry. That was almost 161k in healing over 10 minutes. My tank died over 9 minutes ago ;x

But that should give you an idea of how bad this would be. By all means, melee to keep your mana up, but Battle Healer as Holy, IMO, is not worth it.

Also, it does not apply Illuminated Healing nor does it work with Beacon of Light.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
(1) Crusader Strike. Using CS is a small gain, with a caveat. Now, of course you'd want to maintain Holy Shock on cooldown, so the question then becomes is it worth using CS over Holy Lights or Divine Light on Beacon? A good way to determine this is to discover just how much healing 1 Holy Power gives you. In most cases, this would translate into 1/3rd of an Eternal Flame. Leaving out the boring math, 1 HP, especially taking Divine Purpose into account, heals for MORE than the raw healing of Divine Light. So we have 9,000 mana for 1 HP, or 21,600 for Divine Light base healing + 1 HP. Thus, Crusader Strike is more mana efficient than DL (this does assume that you are specced into both Eternal Flame and Divine Purpose, otherwise it is suboptimal). There's also the added benefit that CS often returns mana via Insight, so it costs 6,600 instead of 9k. But the big caveat to this is that you have normal miss chance, along with a boss's dodge (and parry, if you hit 'em from the front). This means that CS is unfortunately not HP on demand and has the potential to waste mana if RNG disfavors you. So, I do NOT advise using it in general circumstances, only for bleeding edge content, or in PvP usage.

(2) Light of Dawn glyph is an HPS loss. Consider. You can heal six targets for 100%, for 600% total healing, or four targets for 125% each, which is 500% total healing. This glyph is only advised for when doing 5-man dungeons or for PvP. I could suggest it for certain 10-man raid comps, for when you have 3 or 4 ranged spread out that need regular healing, perhaps on Wind Lord, but since you have to sacrifice a Major Glyph spot for it...

(3) Is DP more effective with the T-14 than Holy Avenger? Unusual question. There are two things to consider, and then one answer. Firstly, Divine Purpose becomes stronger the more Holy Power you gain. T-14 4-piece gives you more Holy Power. Thus, it benefits DP, and to a pretty decent degree (perhaps 30% or so). HA is harder to determine, because its value depends upon time sequences and your individual haste AND whether or not you have Bloodlust/Divine Favor up. To get the most out of HA, you would do Flash of Light/Holy Shock, HP Finisher, repeat. But using Flash of LIght is mana inefficient, Holy Shock has a 4 or 6 second cooldown, and you'd normally be using AoE spells rather than single target.

With the 4 piece, assuming 25% haste.
Holy Radiance (2 second), LoD (1.2), HS (1.2), LoD (1.2).....
Holy Radiance (2 second), LoD (1.2), HS (1.2), LoD (1.2).....
Holy Radiance (2 second), LoD (1.2)... which is 14.4 seconds, giving us just enough time for another HS and then LoD (1.2). So in this scenario, HA gained us 12 Holy Power.

Without the 4 piece, assuming 25% haste.
Holy Radiance, LoD, HS, LoD....
Holy Radiance, LoD, wait .4 seconds and then HS, LoD....
HR, LoD... but now we're at 14.8 seconds, so we can't get in the last HS, since there's still .4 seconds to go. So we only gain 10 Holy Power.

Now, if we started with HS instead of Holy Radiance, both scenarios would net us the 10 HP. However! HS has a chance of procing Infusion of Light, which would reduce the cast time of HR by 1.5 seconds, which means that WITH the 4 piece, you could maintain your rotation. Without the set bonus, you'd start having to decide to wait 1 second or use another HR, and so forth. It gets ugly. And haste changes things SO much.

But since you wanted a comparison, it looks like the 4-piece only improves HA by 1 Holy Power per minute guaranteed, with an additional plus 1 each time you proc Infusion of Light during HA, and you'd have 3 chances. On the other hand, the Four piece is said to generate about +4 Holy Power per minute on average, and Divine Purpose basically multiplies your HP gains by 1.33, which means the four piece gives DP +1.33 Holy Power per minute.

So I guess the 4-piece generally improves HA moreso than DP.

But the note I wanted to mention... you don't select HA because it's more Holy Power or less HP. You grab it because you need the cooldown instead of generalized mana efficiency.

(4) Threshold for Eternal Flame versus Light of Dawn. There are three answers, depending upon whom you cast EF on. Assuming that all of the Mastery shields get used and there's no overheal, and that Light of Dawn hits 6 non-beacon targets...
Looking at just my tooltips, which is fine since bonus healing, Mastery, and Crit affect them all the same:
EF: 73,500 initial + 12 ticks of 8100 = 175,500
LoD: 22,800*6 targets = 136,800, plus Beacon transfer of 20520

Light of Dawn heals 157,320 total

Tank (Beacon target): Just the base 175,500 healing, so the numbers are fairly close.
Fellow Raider: Stronger, because of beacon transfer. 263,250 healing, a good 67% increase over LoD.
Self: Double HoT from Eternal Flame makes it super powerful. 416,250 healing, more than TWO AND A HALF TIMES the healing of Light of Dawn.

Now, what can really make or break the difference is overheal and mastery, which we can't forget. EF, because it's single target and a HoT, has a lot of Overheal. However, the rolling effect on it means that the mastery portion of it AND any other heals you slam on that target, has a good chance of being used. Honestly, this changes on a per fight basis so that I just consider it a wash.

In other words, it is ALWAYS better to use EF instead of LoD when you can help it, but it means paying attention to tank health, and possibly swapping around your beacon before laying out an EF. And knowing how your co-heals react to damage.

(5) Hand of Purity DoT reduction work with Brewmaster? Wow. I hope not. <checks up on it> Um. It worked on Stagger during 5.0. I do not know if it still does. I will do some more research to be sure, though it'd be nice if anyone else knew the answer. I mean, that would turn HoPurity into, what, a 30%+ DR cooldown for 6 seconds every 30, so long as the monk is staggering?

(6) Battle Healer for Holy spec? Almost no benefit. I do about 500 melee dps, or 2,500 with Crusader strike. You'd likely only manage 1 minute worth of damage on a real fight, with amazing macros so you're always attacking while you cast instant spells. So... maybe 9k healing (45k with CS)? And at the cost of a major glyph. Even with Crusader Strike, not worth it.

(7) Specific tricks for bosses I'll leave up to others. The only general advice I can give is to use all the friggin cooldowns, paladins have tons. Especially bubble. Find a way to incorporate Hand of Sacrifice and Bubble together to ignore powerful mechanics AND get some free mitigation in.
Edited by Wards on 4/7/2013 7:42 AM PDT
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91 Orc Warrior
7530
Thank you for all the time you put in and I appreciate the answers.
I am fairly new to a pally and trying to pick up on all the tricks and such.
The only trick that I know is one I hope everyone would know.
Gara'jal uses a fixate so threat is not an issue after he uses dolls you can Hand of protection on the tank and it can be used on damage heavy portions mostly on the berzerk and give you no melee damage on tanks or linked members.
Also on Horridon you can hand of protection the tank on horridon during the time he is stunned and it will remove the triple puncture debuff so he can continue to tank the boss at each door.
You have to use clemency and time it out but it is possible to clear the stacks at every door.
Its cool but really you should only do this if you other tank cannot pick up adds. I have trouble on my warrior but I get by.
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