Abandoning "real raiding" for LFR...

90 Human Death Knight
10355
Hey, so this may not be the best sampling place to ask, but I am curious about something Id like to ask the normal and heroic raiders about, in this expansion.

Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?

If im not wording it well, what im getting at is that Ive talked to a lot of people who have been more than happy to stop serious raiding since LFR came out, and are satisfied just with that. So even if you aren't that person do you know anyone who has? I saw a raiding guild recruiting in chat talking about how its harder to recruit people for "real raids" now because so many just want to do LFR, and was wondering if that was a trend or not? Might make an interesting discussion on another impact LFR could be having on normal/heroic raiding. Thanks a lot.
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90 Worgen Druid
7990
To me LFR is a great way to sample content and gain valor points for the week, but honestly dealing with 24 other people who are either amazing or terrible and spend hours on a boss that has most of its mechanics either reduced or removed, as well as all attacks doing almost 0 damage is not my idea of time well spent playing a game(yes its a game but im here to have fun too :D). Lets look at fight in 5.0 Gara'Jal the Spiritbinder, in normal the totems have to be destroyed and adds killed, in LFR the totems you simply click on and people practically ignore the adds all together instead most of the time people zerg the boss instead, so IMO the idea of LFR showing the content is a mere sample of what the raid should be, and I cant even speak for heroic raiding because I do not have time or gear for that level of content but I give great congrats to all those players and guilds who can! But back to what I said above, if RL is taking a lot of your time and you have almost no time to play then yes LFR is fine but if you have spare time 2-3 nights a week for a few hours then stay with normal raiding with a guild of friends and you will have so much more fun because LFR is basically a 25 man simple dungeon, never feels epic when you kill a LFR boss, unlike when you've been on a boss in normal or heroic for others for weeks and you finally get emm! Now thats satisfying, so hope this helps and have fun with whatever you do!
Edited by Peryite on 4/8/2013 9:34 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?


I've seen it posted a lot on this forum, although I've never actually seen it happen in game. Considering LFR is basically no different than pressing random buttons on your keyboard while a Youtube video of the boss plays I find it bizarre that very many people could be satisfied playing only LFR, but to each his own. Also most of the people on this forum who say they've done so are fakeposting about it for some insane agenda or another.
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90 Human Death Knight
10355
Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?


I've seen it posted a lot on this forum, although I've never actually seen it happen in game. Considering LFR is basically no different than pressing random buttons on your keyboard while a Youtube video of the boss plays I find it bizarre that very many people could be satisfied playing only LFR, but to each his own. Also most of the people on this forum who say they've done so are fakeposting about it for some insane agenda or another.


Thanks for the reply Mahourai. As I said, I get my raid fix from just LFR now. It's not that I enjoy "pressing random buttons" to watch a boss fall over, so much as what I DONT enjoy about regular raiding, such as hours of wiping, voice chat with people I probably dont like, elitist attitudes, loot drama, drama in general, gemming/enchanting properly, (although I do this on my LFR decked out hunter) etc. But thats just my opinion, on my experiences obviously.

I play a lot of WoW, probably more than some serious raiders, I just do dailies, pet battles, casual pvp, and level lots of alts. So LFR actually serves its puprose for my situation, but as long as it can take sometimes to do LFR with complete randoms, I dont think I would even be able to do that much if I didnt play a lot.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
Nope, everyone who's gone casual has just quit outright.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4890
I did.

Reasons against hardcore raiding:
    Lack of time due to real life
    Many wipes to kill one boss with great effort, often due to the next issue
    One person (10 man) can wipe your group due to a stupid mistake
    Loot council giving gear over and over to people due to allegiances/friendships rather than effort/upgrade etc


Reasons for LFR:

Pretty much the contrition to everything above, queue whenever I want to and can get into content, most bosses are one shot, and wiping increases your chances of killing the boss incredibly due to a stat buff. It takes many people dying to wipe the raid (Exception being a tank dying, which is usually a wipe on any difficulty if Brez isn't up). Also, if you play at a high level, it still benefits you greatly in LFR to play that way.

In summary, I put forth a moderate amount of effort, for a pretty good chance at a moderate reward, instead of putting a high/extreme amount of effort, usually with a low chance of reward.
Edited by Rockfarce on 4/8/2013 9:49 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
10970
Yes.

I raided through Nax25, then real life took over and removed my ability to consistently raid. The addition of LFR at Dragon Soul gave me the chance to clear content at my pace and not feel completely unrewarded. I've since transferred to a more consistent position and would like to get back into full time raiding, but it's not easy to get back into it.

Right now I'm fairly content with clearing LFR (although gating is a kick in the balls) to see the raid. The problem is that I'm still playing a massive game of catch up. I've made incredible progress in the 10 weeks that I've been back, but even capping valor every week and grinding every daily I could find has not really allowed me to catch up yet. I will get there though.

As for recruiting, finding the right people is hard. Sometimes, guilds set unrealistic expectations for their recruitment standards (i.e. too high of an item level requirement) and other times it is a matter of the environment (there will never be enough tanks). There are committed people out there though, trust me.
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90 Human Death Knight
10355
Nope, everyone who's gone casual has just quit outright.


And 2 million of their friends, right? ;)
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
And 2 million of their friends, right? ;)


That was roughly how many quit during Dragonsoul, which was the most casual point in the game.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4890
You don't consider doing lfr alone to be casual?
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90 Human Death Knight
10355
04/08/2013 09:59 PMPosted by Azane
And 2 million of their friends, right? ;)


That was roughly how many quit during Dragonsoul, which was the most casual point in the game.


At the risk of this turning into another hard vs easy debate, we will just have to agree to disagree for the reason so many people quit during Dragon Soul. You believe it was because it was "too easy." Im sure there were some that did quit for this reason, but I believe more quit because the raid was "bad." Reused models, music, scenery, very boring. Even if it has been very hard, I dont think it would have been seen as much more successful than it was. Also, there wasnt enough stuff to do during tier 13 other than dragon soul. Like, nothing much going on.

GC recently did an interview on the legendary vodcast, almost confirming as much. He mentioned that their biggest mistake with dragon soul was reused models and spell effects, something he said they fixed some with tier 14 and much more so in Throne of Thunder.
Edited by Nexumus on 4/8/2013 10:05 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Like I said earlier to each his own but LFR is basically a long dumb movie that plays and you get loot at the end. I like LFR because frankly it's an easier source of free purps than dungeons since you can get stuff by not participating but that's about the only decent feature of LFR and that ain't exactly the sexiest bullet point. Other than that it's a useful environment to test yourself against a fake raid boss in preparation for fighting a normal one, which LFR-only players aren't doing, so I'm frankly baffled.

It's like playing the Wii Mario game on the setting where you are totally invincible and really huge and smash through platforms. It's kind of funny once or twice I guess?

EDIT:

The two million sub exodus was before Dragon Soul. ~12 mil in WoTLK, 10.2 mil the quarter before DS launched. DS then shed another million or so, but largely retained subscribers in the ~3 month period following the initial content launch.
Edited by Mahourai on 4/8/2013 10:07 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
10355
Like I said earlier to each his own but LFR is basically a long dumb movie that plays and you get loot at the end.


My 2 stacks of determination, currently on Dumuru, from two wipes not even hitting the maze phase, disagrees with that. For high skilled players who truly do find LFR completely faceroll, I guess I can understand how you must assume that it is just as faceroll for everyone else, as in 100% of everyone, ever...but it isn't.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
That would be the "dumb" part of the movie.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
My 2 stacks of determination, currently on Dumuru, from two wipes not even hitting the maze phase, disagrees with that. For high skilled players who truly do find LFR completely faceroll, I guess I can understand how you must assume that it is just as faceroll for everyone else, as in 100% of everyone, ever...but it isn't.


sorry I can push 5+ keys in a sequential rotation for 5 minutes, and you can't?

At the risk of this turning into another hard vs easy debate, we will just have to agree to disagree for the reason so many people quit during Dragon Soul. You believe it was because it was "too easy." Im sure there were some that did quit for this reason, but I believe more quit because the raid was "bad." Reused models, music, scenery, very boring. Even if it has been very hard, I dont think it would have been seen as much more successful than it was. Also, there wasnt enough stuff to do during tier 13 other than dragon soul. Like, nothing much going on.


You're on record on several occasions for saying that LFR isn't about the content, it's about killing bosses. (Even then, Morchok had around a 30% wiperate somehow).

Nothing much to do, because LFR heroes were able to kill heroic deathwing.
Edited by Azane on 4/8/2013 10:15 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
10355
Killing bosses and moving on to the next is content is it not? Obtaining better gear for your character, even if it is subpar to raiders, and obtained slower, is content in an RPG is it not?

Also, yes, a LOT of people did kill heroic deathwing, but a lot of people didnt. We got as far as heroic Ultraxion but never could get further before MoP.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
20070
I don't know anyone who gave up raiding for LFR, just a few who gave up raiding as this expansion and tier in particular has a very steep learning curve. A fairly casual guild cannot expect one new boss kill a week (at minimum) as in previous tiers. Now we spend at least 2 raid nights to kill a new boss(more for horridon and tortos).

I'm the kind of person who only plays this game for the raid. Previously if my guild stopped raiding I would likely have quit. With LFR i might stick around a bit longer, but it wouldn't in my mind be a remotely adequate substitute. The part of raiding many enjoy is that boss fights are unforgiving and there is a sens elf accomplishment in knowing you were integral to the kill. In LFR I usually carry DPS by a wide margin and explain fights, but I know even if I didn't and just let myself die in 30s the boss would still die. No accomplishment in that.
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100 Human Paladin
aus
19855
We have had quite a few, we are fairly casual anyway so they stay in the guild doing lfr or pugging even if they once raided with us back when we where a 25 man(pre t12)

We actually had a raider drop out this week, their has been a fair bit of angst from us about dps and from him about missing out on first kills and he has decided to only do lfr/pug from this point.

Recruiting new raiders? Horrible. Since the start of t13 we have used 8 different OT's. They are casual, they join, gear up, and go casual again.
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16305
One person (10 man) can wipe your group due to a stupid mistake


Join a 25man
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100 Worgen Druid
15105
04/08/2013 10:13 PMPosted by Azane
(Even then, Morchok had around a 30% wiperate somehow).


Huntards would stand up the back tunneling boss, so there's only be about 6 people soaking Stomp and that was enough to kill them all.
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