Abandoning "real raiding" for LFR...

100 Worgen Druid
15105
Join a 25man


Yeah so then 1 person can kill 24 others. Have someone disconnect on Wind-lord P2? GG.
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36 Blood Elf Mage
0
None. They either quit outright or they were never serious about raiding.
Edited by Knytt on 4/8/2013 11:49 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
13105
Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?


I am a member of a 25man guild with an great player base and guild-community. For the most part we are here more for the experience of being part of a large team. I have never heard of a 25man raider quitting progression because they can simply see content in LFR, not once ever, ever. I even stay in touch with other various 25man guilds and never heard of this.

Maybe this is a trend of players in less-than successful 10man guilds who consider it "serious" raiding just because they put a lot of ineffective hours into their raids. I can imagine quitting raiding to do 25man LFR when your 10man guild raids 12 hrs a week and can't kill Horridon normal. I can see that...

However I would NEVER quit 25man raiding to join 10man raiding. No way, that is not why I raid.

TL;DR If anyone says they are quitting raiding because they can simply see content in LFR
1. They are in a 10man guild, guarunteed. (honestly probably like 99% of the time)
2. They do not enjoy the social aspest of the raid, at all. They want to kill things, and that is it pretty much. To get into that a little more, having a social guild will promote its success. I am an officer in a guild founded in 2007, it is the social aspest that has kept this guild alive, not it's amazing success.

Thanks for reading :)
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90 Draenei Priest
18035
I did.

Reasons against hardcore raiding:
    Lack of time due to real life
    Many wipes to kill one boss with great effort, often due to the next issue
    One person (10 man) can wipe your group due to a stupid mistake
    Loot council giving gear over and over to people due to allegiances/friendships rather than effort/upgrade etc


Reasons for LFR:

Pretty much the contrition to everything above, queue whenever I want to and can get into content, most bosses are one shot, and wiping increases your chances of killing the boss incredibly due to a stat buff. It takes many people dying to wipe the raid (Exception being a tank dying, which is usually a wipe on any difficulty if Brez isn't up). Also, if you play at a high level, it still benefits you greatly in LFR to play that way.

In summary, I put forth a moderate amount of effort, for a pretty good chance at a moderate reward, instead of putting a high/extreme amount of effort, usually with a low chance of reward.


This post is interesting to me. Of course your point of view is valid and I'm glad LFR is around so you can enjoy WoW still.

However, I cannot relate with your rational. It is only the difficulty of the fights that makes raiding worthwhile. Without a real challenge why bother?

Maybe the challenge is recruiting players, or coaching weak DPS, or finding a strategy that your specific team with its specific strengths and weaknesses can execute to kill the boss. Whatever the current challenge is, that's what makes the game fun.

This is where someone totally misses the point and says 10m isn't challenging or normals aren't challenging. The best thing about WoW raiding at the moment is that nearly every group of players can get to content they find difficult and then work together to succeed there.

Anyway, raiding clearly isn't for everyone. I just hope a bad guild with a bad loot council and some drama didn't ruin the most fun aspect of the game for you permentantly. Though if you dislike wiping then you probably made the right choice :P
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90 Orc Warrior
13520
LFR isn't content. If I were to quit I'd go cold turkey but if I was forced to quit raiding but could still play once or twice a week I'd join a casual guild and still clear at least normals.
Edited by Xiic on 4/9/2013 9:03 AM PDT
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100 Goblin Priest
9225
The only person I know who dropped down to LFR didn't actually enjoy raiding. They complained if the group wiped more than 5 times on a boss. The people who enjoy progression raiding are all still doing it.
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100 Pandaren Priest
17840
The only person I know who dropped down to LFR didn't actually enjoy raiding. They complained if the group wiped more than 5 times on a boss. The people who enjoy progression raiding are all still doing it.
I agree with this.

If you don't like wiping a lot and working and refining your strategy, then that's a big part of regular raiding. Overcoming a challenge that has stymied you for weeks -is- the accomplishment you're after, not just purple pixels and another 10 achievement points.

Likewise, if you can't stand the group you're running with (OP mentioned he hated listening to the group in vent), then you're poisoning the social aspect and need to get the hell out of that particular group. It's supposed to be fun, not tiresome.
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90 Human Warlock
14180
I will say that abandoning "real" raiding for LFR can be quite tempting sometimes. Sure the regular/heroic raiding has the extra challenge, bonding with your guild, and the sense of accomplishment when you down a new boss.

The problem though, is that you get a whole lot of "not fun" in order to get that sense of accomplishment. Extra challenge and wiping is fine, but to a point. When you keep having your raiders make the same mistakes over and over and over, it really gets old. A lot of times on those nights instead of bonding you get on each other's nerves and have petty arguments and such. Let's not forget the time commitment both in game and out either. Maybe you raid 2 or 3 days a week, 3 or 4 hours per night. But you also cap out on your valor, maybe run LFR to pick up a set piece you couldn't get to drop, get your consumables, read up on strategy, etc. It really adds up sometimes.

I put in a lot of "real raiding" time on this character, but it was the time and stress of raiding and being stuck with being raid leader that drove me to just quit the game for over a year last expansion. When I came back my goal was to be casual and have LFR be my end game. Instead I ended up deciding to go back to running things with my guild, and get re-addicted to the game and keeping up and everything.

It's easy to look down on LFR or the bad players you find there, but really it can be fun to go in knowing you can have it cleared and over with in a short period of time. You may get some people who screw up a lot (Durumu) but the stress level is a lot lower than wiping for the 50th time on a boss to some stupid mistake in the 4th hour of your Thursday raid night. Instead you can get a relatively quick clear, maybe get some new drops, then be finished up for the week.

Real raiding has the challenge and the sense of accomplishment, but the RoI on that fun isn't always the greatest.
Edited by Seldric on 4/9/2013 10:14 AM PDT
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100 Troll Death Knight
10140
If I ever gave up legit raiding, I'd likely just quit the game altogether. LFR is a means for free weekly loot, plain and simple. There's no thrill, no excitement, just an expectation that you will win. You're severely disappointed when you don't one shot a boss. Not surprised if you do.

If someone can stop doing (decently ok ranked) normal/heroic raiding and be satisfied with LFR, then I would likely counter with the fact that they weren't serious about it in the first place.
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100 Tauren Druid
10165
I'd rather wipe for 3 hours and not get a boss down than clear all of ToT in an LFR. Nothing too radical from what has already been said -- for me, challenge is part of the content.

If content is seeing what a boss looks like, then I can look at screenshots.
If content is playing in a group, then I can wait until everyone is way over geared and then check out the raid later.
If content is loot, then VP should be enough.

LFR hits all of those.

You see the boss. You even see some mechanics.
You're playing in a group. Though it might be a group of 24 strangers that you'll never play with again, it is a group.
You get loot.

But just as a piece of artwork is more than just paint and canvas, a raid is more than just looks, mechanics, groups and loots.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11695
I have a couple of old guildies/friends who quit right about when the nerf to Firelands happened. Most of them were pretty serious with raiding.

They just came back like a month or two ago because they wanted something to do. They don't want to raid that much just because of the time commitment.

So they are doing LFR. Most of the time, I get whispers complaining about how easy LFR is and how amazed they are by people who can't figure it out. Who knows if they'll keep going. I kinda doubt it knowing them.

For me personally, if I wasn't raiding anymore in a guild, there's no way in hell I'd be content doing LFR. I'd quit the game if I couldn't raid normals/heroics.
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100 Human Warlock
11790
Hey, so this may not be the best sampling place to ask, but I am curious about something Id like to ask the normal and heroic raiders about, in this expansion.

Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?


I would doubt it. Raiders do raids not LFR. LFR is just for us non-raiders to get a glimpse of the content serious players are doing.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14370
LFR? The place where the bosses suicide?

No one talks. And full of bads.

No, ty.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
14780
Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?


Absolutely not. The experience is completely different on heroic, and even on normal. In LFR there is no bond in your group and the goal is so simple that the reward(not loot) is lacking.
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04/09/2013 11:01 AMPosted by Ovi
Have you or anyone you know, that used to be a serious raider, either at least clearing normal tiers or trying to, decided to no longer pursue normal/heroic raiding simply because you can "see the content" in LFR?


Absolutely not. The experience is completely different on heroic, and even on normal. In LFR there is no bond in your group and the goal is so simple that the reward(not loot) is lacking.


This pretty much sums it up for me. I enjoy the process, and the teamwork involved in a normal raid. I dislike raiding with 24 strangers who are never accountable for any part of making the group work. It's not enjoyable to me at all.

Yes, I do run LFR, but not consistently and would not replace normal raiding with just running LFR.
Edited by Amiyna on 4/9/2013 11:09 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
12970
i really enjoy LFR for alts, but asfor your question... only people who no longer have the time to commit have gone to LFR only that i know of
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Most of the people that i know who made the switch, decided to quit raiding first. They participate in LFR after they quit/go casual, but it wasn't a determining factor. More like "hey, well it's there".

I can't say whether this is typical behavior. But as far as i know, that's how it's gone for my friends.
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90 Human Death Knight
10355
The only person I know who dropped down to LFR didn't actually enjoy raiding. They complained if the group wiped more than 5 times on a boss. The people who enjoy progression raiding are all still doing it.


I think this is me and I have no problem with that. Years ago, I did do progression raiding, and while others cheered in vent after killing that boss that just wouldn't die after 50 wipes, my reaction is a "thank god thats over." Just isnt fun for me.
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100 Human Paladin
13870
The people who enjoy progression raiding are all still doing it.


How many is that, though? Here we are five weeks into T15, and about 13K guilds in NA/EU have downed the second boss on normal mode (in T14 at five weeks, 22K had downed Feng.)

13K is a remarkably small number. Most of those guilds do it on 10 man, so optimistically that's maybe 5% of the player population.

Most of the people that i know who made the switch, decided to quit raiding first. They participate in LFR after they quit/go casual, but it wasn't a determining factor. More like "hey, well it's there".

That's what I did. Quit raiding after ICC, and just started LFR this expansion. No raiding whatsoever in Cataclysm (not even LFR).
Edited by Osmeric on 4/10/2013 2:45 AM PDT
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