Savage defense.

91 Orc Warrior
7530
As some of you all may know when a druid uses symbiosis on you you gain their savage defense
1 min cooldown
30% dodge
60 rage
I recently got into a little disagreement with the guild leader. On every fight he put symbiosis on me but I tell him that it is not a good skill for me he doesn't and hasn't tanked but he thinks that its just 1 more cooldown to throw on the pile.
I explain rage is a precious resource and that with it costing the same amount as shield block I can't justify the rage cost. I explained it like this. I can spend 60 rage and gain 30% guaranteed damage reduction with a chance at 60% reduction. he then began to patronize me explaining that dodging means I take no damage...(no !@#$) and that he wants to reduce the overall damage taken.
I then explain that if you took out the fact im stacking mastery where I can get it and we pretend I have no mastery we then take a fight and compare 100% uptime for both shield block and and savage defense then taking luck out of the situation they will both take the same amount of damage but savage defense will make me spikey where as block smooths it out. Then we bring mastery back in and not only does shield block smooth it out but it mitigates more damage and helps me generate rage and its not on a 1 minute cooldown.

When it comes down to it savage defense isn't worth a spot on my bar and I explained the only way savage defense could be useful is if I was going the Sbarrier avoidance build and even then its still 60 rage that could have just been used on another Sbarrier.

Now sure some fights he uses it for the skill he gains but thats not the point I'm here to ask if my thinking was wrong. I have looked quite a few places and couldn't find anything definitive on whether savage defense was worth anything. So is it worth anything?
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100 Night Elf Warrior
11880
Savage Defense IN MY OPINION (Don't you people crucify me on this)....is amazing. With the extra Dodge not only will your Revenge Procs just start GUSHING out at you but you build up the rage back to do Tons of your other CD's.

Recent LFR I did I was on Horridon and I picked up Adds. Druid Whispers to me that she put Symb on me and I put it on my Bars (I have the Symbiosis button there all the time in a good spot for when I do get it I can switch up an ability I don't normaly use like Shattering Throw. My Raid group is mostly casters) So I pop it and Add Control is amazing. Revenge is doing great damage and rage gen. I have no trouble with the adds and the whole encounter went smoothly.

Now it's mostly subjective. I personaly love Symbiosis..but my Raid Leader who is a Priest asks for the Symb all the time leaving us tanks with less CD's but That's an extra Tranq so It's fine. Point being. It's all about how you think it will work. Me. I personally like Savage Defense and it's a good skill. Others might not think so.

But to answer your real question. Rage wont be a problem if you pop it. Revenge will proc more to do the Shield Block, Shield Barrier, Etc.
Also it would be great to use SD with Delicate Vial of the Sanguinaire
Edited by Dantendo on 4/10/2013 8:54 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
I would agree with your assessment, savage defense doesn't really seem worth the rage cost, especially given that dodge is pretty much our lowest priority stat. Unlike bear mastery our mastery becomes almost completely useless unless you're actively using shield block.

While its true it does proc revenge it also leads to very spiky damage, the whole point of getting rage is to ease out the spike damage you take so that you: A. Don't die, B. Don't freak the healers out into spam healing you and wasting their mana. If you're spending it to make yourself more spiky its a little redundant.

I also think your raid leader needs to read the tank forums a bit because quite frankly reforging for dodge or parry is almost last in line to any other stat. Reforging for parry or something is very bad this expansion due to how it makes you take damage spikes and is often much weaker than active mitigation anyway. Even if it makes you "avoid all damage" it has negative impact if you're losing other stats for it.
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90 Orc Warrior
17020
6 seconds of 30% dodge for 60 rage on a 1 minute CD is pretty terrible compared to what we already have as AM skills.
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90 Orc Warrior
9950
I would have liked to us get Enrage from Druids as Prot. Would have been SUPER helpful. Instant 20 Rage and 10 Rage over time on a minute CD, off GCD? Not remotely overpowered, but yet, very useful.
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91 Orc Warrior
7530
I would agree with your assessment, savage defense doesn't really seem worth the rage cost, especially given that dodge is pretty much our lowest priority stat. Unlike bear mastery our mastery becomes almost completely useless unless you're actively using shield block.

While its true it does proc revenge it also leads to very spiky damage, the whole point of getting rage is to ease out the spike damage you take so that you: A. Don't die, B. Don't freak the healers out into spam healing you and wasting their mana. If you're spending it to make yourself more spiky its a little redundant.

I also think your raid leader needs to read the tank forums a bit because quite frankly reforging for dodge or parry is almost last in line to any other stat. Reforging for parry or something is very bad this expansion due to how it makes you take damage spikes and is often much weaker than active mitigation anyway. Even if it makes you "avoid all damage" it has negative impact if you're losing other stats for it.


That's how I tried to explain it. If you want to really go the whole SD and avoidance route then you basically need to get rid of every bit of mastery you have.
the revenge procs are nice I guess but its still not worth it.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being an !@# when I was so sure of why I was never going to use it.

I would have liked to us get Enrage from Druids as Prot. Would have been SUPER helpful. Instant 20 Rage and 10 Rage over time on a minute CD, off GCD? Not remotely overpowered, but yet, very useful.

That would be awesome. or maybe the brewmasters get SD and we get survival instincts ;p
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88 Dwarf Warrior
6875
Good topic. I was wondering about SD and if it was any good for prot.
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91 Orc Warrior
7530
Gonna go ahead and bump so any other prospective warriors can see.
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96 Gnome Warrior
15800
Savage defense should not be competing with Shield Block, it competes with shield barrier. Unless you have rage issues, be they expertise or LTP, you will have excess rage after keeping block on cooldown.

I normally don't take symbiosis, but I did when working on heroic spiritbinder back in MSV. It helped there because barrier is less useful on that fight.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9630
Dodge is !@#$ty for prot warriors. Want parry 3x dodge because of DR. better to spend rage on 100% halved damage rather then 30% of RNG, plus %^-*s with your DR.
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