Shadow Priests: Gimped!

90 Troll Priest
15770
>Please keep this discussion in a PvE direction, not PvP --- Thanks<

Comparatively, we are probably one of the worst casters at the current point in time, when it comes to out single-target DPS. Our multi-dotting capability is the only thing that make us competitive on encounters with multiple kill targets, and still then, there are other classes that do this better. There are a couple things that I believe are holding us back. Our complete lack of mobile DPS, which the majority of bosses seem to favor this tier, and the most popular Shadow Priest complaint since the ability had been implemented in game, Shadowy Apparitions. As most Shadow Priests know, Halo is our highest DPS-per-global for single target if you're using the spell correctly and and are standing at 25 yards. This being said, most SPriests are standing at max range to maximize the effectiveness of this spell. While doing so, we're also minimizing the effectiveness of Shadowy Apparitions. I believe the current workings of Apparitions right now is: Four Apparitions can be walking towards a target at a given time, and you can also 'queue' a max of 10, meaning as soon as one damages a target, another will spawn and beginning moving towards its target. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG. So to maximize Shadowy Apparitions would require us to stand as close to the kill target as possible to minimize travel time of Apparitions. The two spells counter each other completely.

Our mobile DPS was the other concern I had talked about in the above paragraph. As of right now, we have two options that enable us to DPS on-the-move. Most of us are spamming Shadow Word: Pain while moving as its initial damage is instant and we can spam it as our mana will allow it. The other option is to drop Shadow Word: Insanity and to pick up From Darkness, Comes Light. I have not done any theorycrafting on the two talents, but I'm 99.9% sure that Insanity always beats out FDCL. So our only option is to cast SW:P as we move. I'm not too fond of this, I would honestly like to see FDCL become a passive Shadow Priest ability and to have another talent created in its place.

TL;DR - I would like to see our spells mesh a little better and make a little more sense so we can maximize all of our spells and not have to choose between one and the other. I would also like to see a gain in our mobile DPS.

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. :D

Edited: Updated thoughts on Shadow Priests's abilities and ways to improve the class overall.
Edited by Nauxe on 5/5/2013 9:05 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13355
What is Pandemic?
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90 Undead Priest
18665
Pandemic is why we should be jealous of Affliction. When you refresh a dot it will keep up to 50% of the maximum duration of the previous application.

I do agree with Pandemic at this point. I didn't think we needed it previously, but with high levels of haste, Insanity to work around, and procs to juggle, I think it would be a lot more beneficial.
Edited by Nixxe on 4/16/2013 9:19 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
2790
I'm not sure we are gimped. Our single target DPS is not top notch and our dps while moving sucks, but we have great multi-target dps, scale solidly with gear, and have a lot of utility in forms of off-healing, the spell haste buff, and mass dispel.

I'm not raiding with my Shadow Priest currently, but I rolled one based on what I've been seeing with my raiding toon. Shadow Priests aren't mandatory in 10 mans, but they sure are nice in a dps slot, in normals at least.
Edited by Waxpoetic on 4/16/2013 9:21 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
15770
Yep, mostly for Insanity. We're literally turning into an Affliction lock. Insanity is literally just like spamming Malefic Grasp while Haunt is up.. Haunt is just built into DP now...
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13355
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=131973/pandemic

warlock thing I gets yas

Edit: I wouldn't say we're Gimped because that's just a numbers game and we're def not at the bottom. However, I did not like the playstyle changes made to shadow in mists which is what I think the OP is referring to.
Edited by Taedas on 4/16/2013 9:24 AM PDT
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90 Human Priest
2790
Pandemic is why we should be jealous of Affliction. When you refresh a dot it will keep up to 50% of the maximum duration of the previous application.

I do agree with Pandemic at this point. I didn't think we needed it previously, but with high levels of haste, Insanity to work around, and procs to juggle, I think it would be a lot more beneficial.


I might be the only one, but I like having to juggle dot reapplication. Increases the pace and micromanagement of my priorities. That said, I wouldn't mind the dps increase from longer dots one bit. Longer dots = more mind flay = higher dps. Then again, whoever minded a dps increase?
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90 Troll Priest
15770
Maybe if FDCL was passive? and they gave us a new Tier 3 talent?
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90 Troll Priest
15770
Still would like to hear what everyone else has to say.
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I don't really feel gimped, although granted I haven't done much PvE since hitting 90. If we'll be tossing ideas around, then I wouldn't mind slightly reducing SW:P's mana cost, and I've always been a fan of moving while using MF. I had proposed at one point an AoE spell that does damage and slows enemies to counter the possibility of moving with MF but losing the snare.

Something I'd definitely like to see in the future is more development of our Shadow Orbs. They seem like something that's so important but we only use them for two spells (Many Spriests feel PH shouldn't even consume orbs.). I don't want them to take current spells and make them rely on orbs; preferably I'd like maybe two or three new spells that require orbs, so that they feel more important to our spec. This might require re-working Shadow but it's interesting to think about.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13355
I liked the ICC 4 pc when we didn't have to MB at all.

It was just dots up (there were 3 of em) and MF all day till refresh.

That's what I liked about shadow is that the rotation was proc/CD free. If I wanted to play wack a mole I'd play ret and if I wanted procs I'd go mage.

I just feel like blizzard is making every class the 2 resource tons of procs and CDs cast while moving type of classes, and I miss old shadow. I really hope they give shadow a working over for the next expac and go back to the old ways of shadow... not BC old but back there.
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90 Human Priest
9895
Maybe if FDCL was passive? and they gave us a new Tier 3 talent?


I'd agree with this.

I don't think we'll ever be the highest single target class, or most mobile class. Just comes with the territory of playing a hybrid with ridiculous utility.
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90 Undead Priest
15125
Unless I'm mistaken, I think Unholy DKs also have something that lets them refresh their DoTs (indefinitely), thus allowing them to keep DoTs up with full buffs on them the entire fight. Would be nice to be able to do the same, rather than having to micromanage buff timers all night long.
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Shadow orb generation outside of combat, like the boomkins Astral Communion.

It's a small thing, but I personally want a more reliable opener. Also helps after wiping to a progression boss the first time when you had 3 orbs lined up. :/

04/17/2013 02:04 PMPosted by Disinterred
Unholy DKs

Festering Strike I believe. ^^;
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90 Troll Priest
15770
After doing some more research, I've come up with some better reasoning as to why Shadow Priests need some reworking, especially with the Tier Set bonuses.

The current Shadow Priest two-piece is as follows: When your Shadowy Apparitions deal damage to your target, there is a 65% chance to increase the duration of your SW:P and VT to deal damage one additional time.

The thing that is problematic about this set bonus is that I often find myself refreshing as soon as i get a proc. I normally refresh with less than 2 seconds left on my dots, and i have found that I'll get the two piece proc while I'm refreshing, and its wasted. This is why i think a Pandemic-like mechanic for shadow-priests would be very beneficial to our efficiency in refreshing our dots.

I really DO NOT like the Apparitions mechanic, it is probably one of my least favorite mechanics in the game. The travel distance sucks, the max of 4 sucks. I really just don't like a lot of the things right now that have been done to us, and honestly I think I'm just going to have to switch my main (of six years) to a different class.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14040
The Shadowy Apparitions actually proc beyond four but only four are out at any given time, however, those procs are not lost merely 'stored up' and released when an active slot is available. While I don't like the ShA mechanic at all and never have this is a significant improvement on any of their previous incarnations.

Personally, I'm more concerned with Shadow orbs being limited to a capacity of three. In particular during execution phases you will often gain Shadow Orb generators close to or immediately after gaining a three stack which basically relieves you of one or two GCDs of MF:I given the current priority system. Whereas if our orbs stacked to five (similar to Holy Power) then we could cast the SW:D and/or Mind Blast (DI proc) and then Devouring Plague without loosing the orbs or MF:I uptime.
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90 Human Priest
9560
=/ Ever since panda came out I'm not really a fan of shadow priests anymore. I used to love them. Sadly I've been leveling up and alt to maybe replace this guy someday.

Maybe if they boosted the initial damage Pain did, so then if we did have to move you could spam it. But that'd probably mess with pvp -.- Ugh.. Dunno.

Rock/ShadowPriests/HardPlace
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90 Troll Priest
15770
That wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Raising the cap to 5 Shadow Orbs would allow for a lot better burst, and I'm sure Blizzard would find a problem with that from a PvP standpoint. Getting 5 Shadow Orbs, and then casting DP, MB for another Orb, then DP again... Sounds pretty OP honestly.

I LIKE IT!
Edited by Halcyon on 4/18/2013 10:36 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
13985
04/16/2013 09:21 AMPosted by Waxpoetic
but we have great multi-target dps, scale solidly with gear


warlocks are 20%+ more effective at multi target, and can convert their multitarget capability into more single target/focus dps waaaay more effectively than can spriests. have you ever raided with a destro lock who knows how to shadowburn and keep down rain of fire? nothing can compete with that crap. with multiple adds in execute range, a spriest gets two SW:Ds, one orb, and 10-ish seconds of TOF while a warlock can reasonably get out 8+ shadowburns and get all their embers back to convert into chaos bolts onto a focus target.

the only fight where shadow is actually competitive this tier is horridon, because it's basically elegon without broken shadow apparitions. however, destro will scale better as people gear out more (we really rely on using SW:D on cooldown for orbs, whereas the warlock SW:D equivalent has no cooldown). getting gimped out of an insanity when i misjudge where the edge of double swipe is, and watching a warlock slowly backpedal out of the cone while still casting a chaos bolt just drives me crazy.

mobility dps is just retarded at this point. either they need to give shadow mobile dps (we're the only class right now that doesn't have substantial mobility capabilities, and it was actually made worse with how insanity and our t15 2 piece works) or they need to go through and nerf every single mobility dps ability.

to add insult to injury, mass dispel's cast time is going up in 5.3, so we will be even less mobile when doing the one thing we uniquely bring to a raid.
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90 Goblin Priest
17130
I'm hoping we get focused development like Warlocks got this expansion :~ All specs have fallen short at some point and many buffs, fixes and reworks were done to get we good.
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