Shadow Priests: Gimped!

90 Human Priest
2790
04/18/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Snaxattax
but we have great multi-target dps, scale solidly with gear


warlocks are 20%+ more effective at multi target, and can convert their multitarget capability into more single target/focus dps waaaay more effectively than can spriests. have you ever raided with a destro lock who knows how to shadowburn and keep down rain of fire? nothing can compete with that crap. with multiple adds in execute range, a spriest gets two SW:Ds, one orb, and 10-ish seconds of TOF while a warlock can reasonably get out 8+ shadowburns and get all their embers back to convert into chaos bolts onto a focus target.

the only fight where shadow is actually competitive this tier is horridon, because it's basically elegon without broken shadow apparitions. however, destro will scale better as people gear out more (we really rely on using SW:D on cooldown for orbs, whereas the warlock SW:D equivalent has no cooldown). getting gimped out of an insanity when i misjudge where the edge of double swipe is, and watching a warlock slowly backpedal out of the cone while still casting a chaos bolt just drives me crazy.

mobility dps is just retarded at this point. either they need to give shadow mobile dps (we're the only class right now that doesn't have substantial mobility capabilities, and it was actually made worse with how insanity and our t15 2 piece works) or they need to go through and nerf every single mobility dps ability.

to add insult to injury, mass dispel's cast time is going up in 5.3, so we will be even less mobile when doing the one thing we uniquely bring to a raid.


Ok, you've sold me. I'm re-rolling a Warlock.
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90 Undead Priest
18275
they need to go through and nerf every single mobility dps ability


^
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90 Human Priest
2790
04/18/2013 02:03 PMPosted by Nixxe
they need to go through and nerf every single mobility dps ability


^


lol, they could just give us a 2 minute CD to let us cast while on the move, baseline or talent us a Cooldown. Then they wouldn't have to redesign every class. This would solve many of our problems in PVP too. The question is, do we need it, and would it make us OP?

Anything besides nerf every other class, that's unreasonable.
Edited by Waxpoetic on 4/18/2013 2:37 PM PDT
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yall are still better then balance druids atm til then not the worse casters :P
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90 Undead Priest
18275
04/18/2013 02:34 PMPosted by Waxpoetic


^


lol, they could just give us a 2 minute CD to let us cast while on the move, baseline or talent us a Cooldown. Then they wouldn't have to redesign every class. This would solve many of our problems in PVP too. The question is, do we need it, and would it make us OP?

Anything besides nerf every other class, that's unreasonable.


No, we don't need it, but also no to not removing current mobile DPS talents and abilities. The completely mobile ranged DPS is an abomination. Melee are supposed to be positioning sensitive, but do full DPS on the move. Ranged are supposed to be less sensitive to positioning, but do less DPS on the move.
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Yup. I'm starting to feel discouraged again. Our lack of mobility, but also, just the lack of umph. It seems I am are falling behind the more my raid group gears up.

My example (I speak not for all spriests, only me) is the Dark Animus fight. I am probably doing it wrong so please feel free to correct me but for the most part I am just using SW:P & VT with an occasional MB on my Golem. The rest of the time I'm really just throwing out shadow heals.. It's crazy, once we actually get to boss I have 3 orbs proc'd and everything is off CD but can't seem to do more than 80-ish dps during that final push --- in ilvl 510 gear.

You guys know how I get when I'm frustrated so I'll not say much more other than there are some amazing points in this thread i.e. mobility & single target (yet again) and I wish Blizz would cut the cwap and fix us.
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Actually I am going to say one more thing (I hear the forum cringe lol).

As an spriest I am usually #7 on the healing meters on a 6 heal fight. IMO if Blizz is using us as a half dps, half healing class then they need to stop calling us a dot class or a dps class and call it for what it is, a utility class without utilities. Just a base model.
Edited by Ivanaflay on 4/19/2013 7:10 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
5720
I find the healing part to be quite annoying as well. My opinion is this.

Pvp - Shadow Apparitions , if a person is struck by 3 SA's within 25 seconds, they are stunned for 5 seconds

Pve - have them actually RUN AT FULL SPEED! and have an 60% chance on each double tick of Vt or SW: P to summon one shadowy apparition. I would also like to have Mindflay to increase our dot damage by 25% once two dots are placed on a target. (the effect wouldn't be able to be used in pvp)

Horrify -TAKEN OFF OF ORBS!

These would solve 2 main things:

1) mobility damage, and another partial cc

2) to bring us up to possibly affliction lock standards.

Balanced so far??? I don't think so.
Edited by Karasaki on 4/19/2013 11:26 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
14620
while still very new to shadow (main aff) i understand where you are coming from. all though i dont agree with a soul burn soul swap type of mechanic for dots...i think they should all be instant cast....maybe mixed in with how moonkins have the lunar shower ability every time they multi dot to increase direct damage. the random procs feel silly...i also agree with holding more orbs...paladins now can hold 5 holy power. might be time for a look at that. maybe not every spell should be able to be cast while moving...mind flay should be one of those spells though...it hurts to get a juicy insanity only to have to move because of poor planning on my part or rng. this class could be so good, however it just falls short to affliction on so many levels..
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90 Troll Priest
15770
Please keep in mind, I'm trying to get others opinons on the class from a PvE standpoint. Thanks.

There is no reason to give us a Soulburn>Soulswap mechanic. While we only have two DoTs to actively multi-dot with, Agony also has to stack to 10 to deal full damage. That being said, I do believe a good Affliction Warlock can out DPS a Shadow Priest any day of the week just because of the utility they have to DoT multiple mobs quickly, but I think we're still pretty competitive when it comes to multi-dotting.

What I want to see being done with the class is a way to either:

A) Make us more mobile and be able to sustain the DPS we can do whenever are stationary.

B) Fix the Shadowy Apparitions. Either make them an instant damaging spell like Golden Apparitions work with the Holy/Disc T15 4set, or get rid of them all together. Why would we get two spells that contradict each other. Halo requires us to stand at max distance to maximize dps output of that spell while SA's require us to be in melee range, to maximize the damage of that mechanic..

I just feel like we need some definite reworking.
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90 Troll Priest
15770
OPINIONS?!
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90 Night Elf Priest
10270
As someone who just started playing spriest(coming from rogue), I feel like mind flay on the move would make my play style a lot more fluid and comfortable compared to say a hunter or warlock. That being said, everything I am reading says that Blizzard hates mobile ranged and we can never hope for that luxury. Kinda sucks seeing as how it seems like every other ranged class has they mobility, regardless of whether or not Blizzard approves of it.
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
yall are still better then balance druids atm til then not the worse casters :P


that's actually completely false. balance has much better mobility dps and mana management than shadow (which is why a lot of lei shen progression runs had balance druids but no shadowpriests).

also, shadow is hitting a point where we stop scaling well (by shadow's standards, meaning roughly 10-15% worse than warlock's mastery scaling) with haste (our best secondary by a lot) due to mindflay going below a global even in currently-available BiS T15H thunderforged. assuming that the next raid tier is as much of a gear reset as was ToT, we're going to be hitting the GCD on mindflay with our procs/PI up. moonkins scale with crit (and get better and better mobility DPS as they get more crit due to starsurge) all the way to 90%+ crit chance, which they will likely never hit, anyway.



^


lol, they could just give us a 2 minute CD to let us cast while on the move, baseline or talent us a Cooldown. Then they wouldn't have to redesign every class. This would solve many of our problems in PVP too. The question is, do we need it, and would it make us OP?

Anything besides nerf every other class, that's unreasonable.


even if we got, say, 10 seconds out of every 2 minutes where we could channel mindflay on the move, we would still be garbage compared to warlocks. kiljaden's cunning is probably half of the reason why warlocks completely outclass shadowpriests right now. the fact that on top of that they also bring far superior aoe (which also can be used to build resources - it'd be like mindsear and halo generating shadow orbs based on the # of targets they hit) and far superior (brez, insane survivability via soul leech + dark bargain), class unique utility (portals, healthstones) and buffs/debuffs (aoe 5% debuff vs spell haste which can be brought by a hunter pet) just makes it a joke.
Edited by Snaxattax on 4/21/2013 2:28 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Priest
12500
I really dont feel gimped at all. My guild is nowhere near Ra-dan so we have 12 fights and at 527 ilvl im 1 2 or 3 (in a 25m setting) on 8/12. there are fights obviously not centered towards spriests are way more centered towards melee classes ie. Ji-kun and Iron Qon. I feel perfectly fine where spriests stand. I'm simply in love with our aoe utility.
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90 Troll Priest
15770
I really dont feel gimped at all. My guild is nowhere near Ra-dan so we have 12 fights and at 527 ilvl im 1 2 or 3 (in a 25m setting) on 8/12. there are fights obviously not centered towards spriests are way more centered towards melee classes ie. Ji-kun and Iron Qon. I feel perfectly fine where spriests stand. I'm simply in love with our aoe utility.


Do you have a warlock or play another caster alt? If not, then you can't see the full picture. No Offense.
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90 Gnome Priest
12500
I do have a lock but he's only 490. there are 3 very geared very skilled locks in our raid group and roughly 85% of the time I come out ahead. in multi dotting fights, whether its an extra 1 or 10 mobs, i simply find spriests are better
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
04/21/2013 09:33 PMPosted by Hottÿ
I do have a lock but he's only 490. there are 3 very geared very skilled locks in our raid group and roughly 85% of the time I come out ahead.


then your warlocks are not skilled. yeah of course shadow looks great if you raid with derplocks that only cast 20 shadowburns on tortos or something - get one who actually knows how to abuse havoc and rain of fire and there's just nothing that can be done. plus they cast on the move and have a passive absorb 6x stronger than PWS.
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90 Gnome Priest
13215
Mind Flay on the move as a glyph instead of a very short duration speed increase.

I'd be happy with that.
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90 Troll Priest
6860
Spriest scale exceptionally well with the right gear (heavy on haste). We are sub-par without heavy haste builds, which many people are experiencing. But at 527 ilvl, I would find it hard for anyone to be in a bad build for an Spriest unless you are doing something silly like stacking crit or mastery over haste. Under that, well it hurts a bit. People have to know how to gear, not just taking upgrades, take the RIGHT ones, and know what to expect until then.
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
Spriest scale exceptionally well


we actually still scale worse than warlocks do with mastery, and we hit a wall in full BIS where our mindflay goes under 1 sec channels with full procs/bloodlusts. not that this will be an issue for most, but if gear progression is like t14->t15, it will be an issue in t16.
Edited by Snaxattax on 4/22/2013 8:32 AM PDT
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