Shadow Priests: Gimped!

90 Goblin Priest
8740
When a Tier bonus is a DPS loss and every dps class except for yours can DPS and move, then your class is broken and needs to be fixed ASAP..... not in a few months but NOW (please).
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90 Night Elf Druid
5850
The Shadowy Apparitions actually proc beyond four but only four are out at any given time, however, those procs are not lost merely 'stored up' and released when an active slot is available. While I don't like the ShA mechanic at all and never have this is a significant improvement on any of their previous incarnations.

Personally, I'm more concerned with Shadow orbs being limited to a capacity of three. In particular during execution phases you will often gain Shadow Orb generators close to or immediately after gaining a three stack which basically relieves you of one or two GCDs of MF:I given the current priority system. Whereas if our orbs stacked to five (similar to Holy Power) then we could cast the SW:D and/or Mind Blast (DI proc) and then Devouring Plague without loosing the orbs or MF:I uptime.


I just wish they went faster. Like a fast ghost. The travel time is just a silly mechanic. Or maybe if the SA doesn't reach the target, it procs a Shadow Orb.

As a pally player as well, this is something I also agree with. Allow us to bank up to 5.
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
shadow orb banking is really not our biggest problem. with the current setup, you lose one GCD of insanity every other DP in execute range. the amount of insanity we lose due to instant unplanned movement, however is just retarded.
Edited by Snaxattax on 4/22/2013 10:26 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
13000
am forced to level and gear out another alt just so I can get into attempts for Heroic Lei-Shen


I like how OP is 1/13 Heroic and already worried about being benched for Lei Shen.

Benching when a class or player underperforms on the cutting edge of heroic progression is nothing new. Shadow struggles on Lei Shen (compared to other ranged) so guilds like Method and Blood Legion will of course, try to bring the classes that are best suited to a fight when world first is on the line. I assure you, by the time you get up to it, you can play shadow.
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90 Troll Priest
15770
04/23/2013 01:55 AMPosted by Suggoll
am forced to level and gear out another alt just so I can get into attempts for Heroic Lei-Shen


I like how OP is 1/13 Heroic and already worried about being benched for Lei Shen.

Benching when a class or player underperforms on the cutting edge of heroic progression is nothing new. Shadow struggles on Lei Shen (compared to other ranged) so guilds like Method and Blood Legion will of course, try to bring the classes that are best suited to a fight when world first is on the line. I assure you, by the time you get up to it, you can play shadow.


Yeah, I'm completely aware of how it works, I've been there, and done the whole top-tier raiding guild. (wowtrack.org me <removed> and take your elitist <removed> some where else). Regardless, if I'm going to make it to Lei Shen or not before the tier is over doesn't matter. The problem being discussed is the fact that our mobility is bad. and shadowy apparitions are bad.
Edited by Harlsoco on 4/26/2013 11:22 AM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
13000
Sorry you feel that way.

I'm just saying that the situation isn't as dire as you make it out to be. I certainly don't feel 'gimped' when I log onto my priest.

Sure, Shadowy Apparitions aren't the most amazing mechanic, but the current iteration of them is the best we've had since their initial appearance and I've had no real problems with them this tier. (Outside of the bugged t15 2p, which is an entirely separate issue)

Our mobility is behind other ranged but as Nixx said,

The completely mobile ranged DPS is an abomination. Melee are supposed to be positioning sensitive, but do full DPS on the move. Ranged are supposed to be less sensitive to positioning, but do less DPS on the move.


Pretty much sums up my feelings perfectly, the issue is not so much us, but the current ranged model in general (warlocks being the main offender). I'd much rather all ranged be re-addressed, than continuing down this slope and giving shadow something dumb.
Edited by Suggoll on 4/24/2013 9:56 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
15550
I would love the ability to cast on the move. I think this is what is holding me back when I compare myself to our hunter or lock. I think a great glyph would be to allow Mind Flay: Insanity to be cast on the move.

For those wondering how Shadow Priests are stacking up when compared to other classes in Heroic tier, well, we seem to be middle-bottom of the pack on the majority of fights, and around the top on fights like Council, Megaera, Horridon. I think we do provide a really good utility for raids, more so than most other classes. From our Cascade/Halo/DS quick heals to glyphed Vampiric Embrace, to Dispels, and overall we typically are at the bottom of damage taken due to a passive 15% reduction to damage, glyphed Fade 10% reduction, and for those wishing to be awesome to healers, 6% reduction to spell damage taken.

Most guilds overlook being slightly lower on the DPS charts to the fact that SP's save wipes, and overall make things easier on the healers.
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90 Undead Priest
19175
Shadow apparitions should just summon a stream of ghost Pokemon to annoy our enemy with pranks.
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90 Goblin Priest
0
Fix/Change our 2pc and change Mind Flay glyph to allow casting Mind Flay while moving with a movement speed penalty. Please. <3
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
Shadow is fine. And it is not the worst caster. Glad we had this talk.
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100 Undead Priest
17125
I think our DPS is still lacking and will always continue to lack until our primary resource generator scales with haste or we get a huge class rework.

Afflic locks can do everything we do and better (except raid heal). Our single target output is garbage still and our multi-dot/aoe is outclasses by them.

In the end, Notice how many Shadow Priests were in for Heroic Lei Shen kills?
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
I think our DPS is still lacking and will always continue to lack until our primary resource generator scales with haste or we get a huge class rework.

Afflic locks can do everything we do and better (except raid heal). Our single target output is garbage still and our multi-dot/aoe is outclasses by them.

In the end, Notice how many Shadow Priests were in for Heroic Lei Shen kills?


Because it's a bad fight for spriests. That doesn't mean the class is generally bad. I'm not seeing a lot of solid criticisms of shadow in this thread.
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
Because it's a bad fight for spriests. That doesn't mean the class is generally bad. I'm not seeing a lot of solid criticisms of shadow in this thread.


it's funny how everyone who says 'shadow is fine' raids 10s with mega underperforming warlocks. it's not that it's a 'bad fight for spriests' but that there have been no 'good fights for spriests'. every fight where we're viable, warlocks still demolish us due to mechanical differences (superior aoe, aoe which generates resources, no cooldown execute which generates more resources than ours).

when you add to it how useful demonic gateways are (which you don't really get to see in a 10 man, unless you run a pretty big bench) and how little damage warlocks take due to sac pact and soul leech on top of the fact they lose no damage/resources on their focus target when they aoe or move the disparity just doesn't make sense.

From our Cascade/Halo/DS quick heals to glyphed Vampiric Embrace, to Dispels, and overall we typically are at the bottom of damage taken due to a passive 15% reduction to damage, glyphed Fade 10% reduction, and for those wishing to be awesome to healers, 6% reduction to spell damage taken.


we're still just a bad warlock when it comes to damage taken. soul leech is 6-8x the size of PWS, and requires no global. sac pact is 3-4x the size of PWS and stacks with soul leech. on top of that, warlocks can use twilight ward for shadow damage. we're nowhere near the bottom of damage taken compared to a warlock who can play their class with any degree of competency.

the only fight where shadow's dispels are felt is horridon, and that's only for the first door in the fight. mage curse dispels (just to compare to another rdps's utility) are way, way more useful to the raid on that fight.
Edited by Snaxattax on 4/25/2013 9:10 AM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
19175
The problem is not Shadow, it's warlocks.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
04/25/2013 09:02 AMPosted by Snaxattax
it's funny how everyone who says 'shadow is fine' raids 10s with mega underperforming warlocks.


His logs were decent enough to get him a shot with the Arathian Knights. Next excuse, please.
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90 Troll Priest
16200
I don't at all feel gimped. Only came back to wow 1 month ago to experience MoP and will concede I'm not a fan of our rotation and how our shadow orbs work but I'm navigating things and perform as well as I ever did. (people don't seem to recall how insanely low our DPS was in TBC, but we were still brought along as mana batteries). Our mobile DPS and multi dotting damage back then was pretty high however.

In MoP
- The 'rotation' is a bit clunky, especially in execute range...just no smoothness to it (will agree there).
- Shadowy aparitions, I always found cool (looking) but purely asthetic/gimmicky. Always found them weird. But will concede they are more interesting than "here, have another 5% damage on this or that".
- Shadow orbs used up for psychic horror is horrible I agree. PvP only consideration but creates too many 'catch 22's'. I need a burst, my silence is down, so I'll horrify the healer and then burst the target. Oh wait, my big burst mechanic of DP and harder hitting MF is no longer possible. Great.

Choice in which abilities you can use is fair enough, adds complexity and probably makes the divide between an ok player and a great one bigger. I'm not totally against that but as far as our damage, I really can't say I'm horrified by it. A well placed halo does stupid damage and heals the raid also.
Edited by Sajek on 4/25/2013 9:41 AM PDT
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100 Undead Priest
TG
14595
Maybe if FDCL was passive? and they gave us a new Tier 3 talent?


I love this idea!
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90 Undead Priest
19175
Realistically, Insanity should be a passive and Mindbender should be given to the healing specs, then wipe out T3 and recreate it as a non-DPS tier.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7565
Realistically, Insanity should be a passive and Mindbender should be given to the healing specs, then wipe out T3 and recreate it as a non-DPS tier.


Not sure how I'd feel about that. There are some fights where I don't have the time to really put insanity to great use, and losing FDCL would suck in that respect.
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