Tortos 25N - Quake Stomp

100 Worgen Druid
14770
Hi all

I watched this video by Cyous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dAph5CJng (edit: correct video link now)

Each Quake Stomp only takes their raid down to about 60% health, which they quickly heal up. Sometimes it only even hits half the raid. How are they doing this?

My guild has been through 81 wipes so far, the majority of which start with players dying due to Rockfall splash about 10 seconds after the first or second Quake (which takes everyone down to about 35% health); or a tank dying at about this time (probably due to healers neglecting the tank in order to keep the raid alive).

The Dungeon Journal says that Quake Stomp is supposed to inflict Physical damage equal to 65% of the player's health (which is what we're seeing - it hits for between 250K and 300K before absorbs). Then 3 or 4 rockfall splashes or a turtle collision will kill someone.

We get slaughtered with 6 healers; going with 7 healers we have had 2 attempts make it past the 3:00 mark, which I guess is progress but it's a bit slower than I would like.

An additional question (not related to the healing), what spells are they using to slow the turtles. The turtles seem to be moving at about 10% of normal speed most of the time, but I thought that 70% speed reduction was the maximum possible and different speed reductions don't stack? .
Edited by Autumni on 4/5/2013 8:04 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Didn't watch the vid but would guess personal CD's. Barskin is up for every single stomp. Using a + healing cd after stomp is a good idea Tranq/HTT/DH/Revival. Pretty sure all you need is 4 to reset the first. Most of the time people are getting hit by rockfall splash damage. They need to move more than out of the circle as there is a 20 yard splash.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
For normal it shouldn't be that bad. Just get some healing out after quake and people should survive rockfall no problem. I'm not sure about actually trying to avoid the splash on rockfall since I thought it's range was pretty large but in 10-man my casual guild simply herp-derp avoided the circles and healed up during the rock falls following quake. Helps to use a cooldown after quake but worst case we had people dip to 20%. I'm not sure how difficulty compares between 25 and 10 for tortos.

You may want to be certain no one is taking a direct hit after quake or getting bat aggro when quake happens.

BTW you linked the wrong video...that is 25 counsil. I believe you wanted this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--dAph5CJng

They seem to take the right amount of damage from stomp and they heal up relatively quickly following the stomp. I can't say whether many of them are trying to stay away from rockfall but it looks like they just side step the circles. I believe trying to avoid rockfall damage by outranging it is overcomplicating things and the rockfalls seem to home in on people reguardless.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Paladins: Can wings 1/4, favor 1/4, Arching Light 1/2 (or Prism every time off the boss), EF used after a stomp will maintain IH on the target that will absorb on the next stomp (unless they take more damage).
Shamans: Can HTT 1/4, Can Asc 1/4. Otherwise finishing HR cast right before stomp on the melee and have HST in place right before that.
Priests: Halo'ing from the middle of raid right after stomp, SSh 1/2 of them if Disc. Hymn 1/4.
MWers: Manage Chi, can use Chi Brew use every other time to spam uplift
Druids: Shrooms for ~1M every stomp + WG and SM. Tranq 1/4.

Plus you have personal CD's, and some dps can add some *free* healing too.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10575
It is a good chunk of healing that needs to be done quickly, but it is by no means unmanageable. There's a couple things I can think of off the top of my head that could contribute to your difficulties.

1. People not being close to full health when quake stomp goes off. Self explanatory.

2. Poor CD management, by the healers and/or personal CDs. I can't know what everyone is doing to survive, so you'd have to talk about this among yourselves.

3. Rock fall: either tunnel vision and not getting out of it, or standing too close. You take more splash damage if you're really close to the rock fall area even if you're not in it, and if there's 3 or 4 nearby you, that could easily kill you even if you're not in it directly. Everyone needs to make sure that their primary goal shortly after the quake stomp is surviving, not that extra bit of dps or whatever.

As for the tank dying early, you have to make sure the tank with the bats doesn't drop below 350k health (I think that's the number) or he'll basically get 1-shot by one of their abilities. Not sure if this is the tank dying before their time that you're referring to, but it's the most likely scenario.

When we kill Tortos we don't have a set healer CD rotation for the quake stomps or anything like that, but if you think it'd help to make sure you get some kind of boost after each stomp that probably wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't remember if we've been killing it with 6 or 7 healers, but I'm pretty sure either is doable. I would say you have to work some things out about communication, CD use, etc. before you keep trying, it's no use banging your head against it and hoping it works. You shouldn't feel like you're in a hopeless spot though, a few tweaks and you should be fine.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Set up a cd rotation. My group follows:
1. Spirit Shell- Disc
2. Holy Avenger- Paladin
3. Revival- Monk

Rinse and repeat.

If you have a druid, use tranquility. (Boping the druid allows him to stand in place so he can get the full cast) If you have a shaman, use HTT. The object is to rotate cds so that all the healers aren't popping their cds at once.
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90 Troll Druid
11195
As a resto druid you should be utilizing SpritWalker's Grace so you can Tranq on the move.

Since this fight is typically short (I know that's relative) you should use more filler spells (rejuvenation) more often prior to the stomp. i.e. use it to top off anyone who is not at full HP prior. This will help considerably.

You can't help people standing in rockfall - you can only do what your tool-kit allows so make the most of it during the short time.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
tell your casters to finish their cast then move after rockfall. they take a while to fall. panic is a killer on this fight.

absorbs mitigate the damage while is why it looks like people don't take damage. spirit shell.

and lastly, hunter frost trap, ice shock, earthbind totems, curse of exhaustion - we've used these to slow.
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100 Worgen Druid
14770
04/04/2013 01:36 PMPosted by Feythylan
absorbs mitigate the damage while is why it looks like people don't take damage. spirit shell.


Can you explain how Spirit Shell should be used in 25man? (I've never played a max level priests). We have 2 disc priests. How far in advance of Quake to cast it, and how to charge it up, etc.
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100 Worgen Druid
14770
04/04/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Loratabb
holy pally bubbles are op.


You mean spam HR on melee group prior to each stomp? or what
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90 Tauren Priest
0
Can you explain how Spirit Shell should be used in 25man? (I've never played a max level priests). We have 2 disc priests. How far in advance of Quake to cast it, and how to charge it up, etc.


Roughly 15 seconds before the quake stomp will *hit* (not when it's cast, when it lands), spam Prayer of Healing with Spirit Shell across all 5 groups to preempt the hit. Also they should be using Halo or Cascade/have Prayer of Mending out right before the stomp goes off to do healing while they're stunned.

I'm not very familiar with 25m, but perhaps one Disc Priest would SS the first stomp, the other the second and so on? It may be overkill to have two SS every other quake on normal mode and leave you feeling flustered on Quake's without SS available.
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90 Dwarf Priest
13265
Like most ToT fights, you need to manage your healing cooldowns in order to win. If you've been through 81 wipes and your healing team hasn't figured it out yet, you need some better healing leadership :P Megaera will be a nightmare for you if you can't coordinate healing on Tortos.

Priest POV: Like Quess said, Spirit Shell should be applied to the raid prior to the stomp. In addition though, if you time it correctly, you can also Cascade just prior to the quake going off and have that bouncing around while people are stunned, which will do a TON of healing, and help top people up before the rockfall/whirl turtles. You will get much more mileage out of Cascade over Halo if you target someone far away.

Also, a suggestion for you (assuming you are Resto for the fight), Symbiosis a Shaman for Spiritwalker's Grace so that you can pair it with Tranquility and use it while moving. Will help a ton!
Edited by Meddle on 4/4/2013 4:13 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
Sometimes it only even hits half the raid. How are they doing this?


Yeah, that's one disc priest completely shielding two groups to prevent all the damage instead of just getting one stack on all 5 groups.

The way Spirit Shell works is that every time you cast Prayer of Healing or a direct heal, it leaves an absorb behind instead of healing that lasts 15 seconds from the last cast. (so if I heal you once it starts the 15 seconds, but if I stack a shell at 5 seconds remaining it refreshes to 15 seconds). It doesn't last long for you to stack too much, do you have to decide how much you want to do.

For a 25 man, you can cast it once on all 5 groups, or multiple times on the same group... but it's basically 5 or 6 casts of Prayer of Healing at most.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
13430
Autumni — my 25-man guild is comparable to yours. Tonight, I helped lay down a healer-cooldown rotation of Spirit Shell/Healing Tide, Spirit Shell/Tranquilty, Spirit Shell/Tranquility, and Spirit Shell/Paladin Miracle on a 3-minute cycle. I asked PW: Barriers to be placed on the bat-tank. We two warriors would plant Demoralizing Banner before a Quake Stomp, followed by Rallying Cry. Ranged were just normally spread out. We tried (and liked) the suggestion that a Holy paladin in melee activate Righteous Fury, and I hammered on watching Rockfall zones and using every personal cooldown available for Quake Stomps.

After a dozen wipes, it clicked and we reached 25% before our Holy paladin dropped, taking our bat-tank with him.

At this point — I know you scoffed before — it's just a matter of improving gear/output to expand the margin for error. Another week and the muscle memory we've developed ought to see us through. The fight's straightfoward enough; 25-man is just tuned for us mere mortals with some really sharp performance angles.

Edit: Thanks for this thread — it inspired several tactics used tonight.
Edited by Aedilhild on 4/6/2013 7:11 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Monk
17435
I think the CD of quake stomp is ~45 seconds which means you need a cooldown cycle in 4 parts (since most major CDs are on 3min timers). Just figure out what CDs your raid has available and preassign them as evenly as possible (ideally, you'll have something that mitigates and something that heals for every one). A resto shaman can have a CD for 3/4 of the stomps if you assign Ascendance as a CD.

Also as I'm sure you already know, quake stomp is physical so magic reduction stuff (like devo aura) won't work. But the raid should be taking personals as often as possible because there is very little incoming damage other than that as a non-tank provided you don't stand in crap.
Edited by Swaggle on 4/5/2013 3:00 AM PDT
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100 Worgen Druid
14770
OK. Checking our logs shows that Spirit Shell wasn't being used properly, so thanks Fey for those tips. Should make a big difference if we can stop dying in Quakes.

04/04/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Aedilhild
Spirit Shield/Paladin Miracle on a 3-minute cycle.


what is Paladin Miracle? Do you mean Devotion Aura for the rockfalls after the Quake?

We tried (and liked) the suggestion that a Holy paladin in melee activate Righteous Fury,


When we tried this the paladin just died to bats .. but our Warrior tank seems to have figured out a pretty reliable way of collecting the bats now. (I think it's something along the lines of having the Tortos-tank use self-healing as the bats spawn so that the bats move towards him, and then the warrior Intervenes to pick them all up)
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100 Dwarf Warrior
13430
04/05/2013 08:02 PMPosted by Autumni
what is Paladin Miracle? Do you mean Devotion Aura for the rockfalls after the Quake?

Yeah, Devotion Aura plus whatever combination of cooldowns he uses to compete with other classes' made-for-raid-damage abilities. (One of those things where I don't get into particulars because he's an incredible healer, although his talents [ http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bronzebeard/Riol/advanced ] can reflect what he likely uses.) And I meant Spirit Shell. Man, was I tired when I wrote that.
Edited by Aedilhild on 4/6/2013 7:26 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
13360
I'm in a 10man, and we two heal it with a paladin and resto druid (my self). All I do is line up a sotf'd WG along with half blanket rejuv's and some mushrooms in a few places (I've trained some of the raid to stand on them) and that covers it pretty much. The hpal contributes of course and he typically does more than myself but just the two of us using no cd's covers it.
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