Holy Pallies too strong

90 Tauren Paladin
0
I can understand some of it. It's not always jealousy, or envy, or anger. It's that we all like a degree of fairness, especially in our games. It is not a good feeling to throw out your best and have someone else be stronger *solely* because of a flaw in balance. It's also not cool to be playing something that diminishes others. Each person should be able to have their share of the limelight.

In practical aspects, yeah. When one class is a little stronger than others, and you run with them, great! Things are easier and die faster. But that doesn't make things not feel bad. Emotions don't always listen to crap like "logic" and "sense". Pfft!
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100 Blood Elf Priest
8790
I can understand some of it. It's not always jealousy, or envy, or anger. It's that we all like a degree of fairness, especially in our games. It is not a good feeling to throw out your best and have someone else be stronger *solely* because of a flaw in balance. It's also not cool to be playing something that diminishes others. Each person should be able to have their share of the limelight.

In practical aspects, yeah. When one class is a little stronger than others, and you run with them, great! Things are easier and die faster. But that doesn't make things not feel bad. Emotions don't always listen to crap like "logic" and "sense". Pfft!


I could understand if like, every healer was not viable except paladins. Like, I'd rather buff shamans than nerf paladins.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
Hmm. Maybe WoW gamers just all happen to have a hint of OCD? So when every class isn't the same size as each other, we completely lose our cool, whether it's a large or small margin.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
7110
I mean I agree on buffing shamans cant go wrong with that. plus I have never understood the lets nerf x healing class. These guys are the only thing standing between you and a quick death, and you want to nerf them.

I think paladins are a tad over powered right now but i'd rather have one on my team then nerf them.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
You might get some thought out of the Spec Score (is there a reason why you chose one that only had 1,200 samples?) but the rankings are, as I said, about where they should be.

Paladins make up 25% of healers.
10N: 42 of 120
10H: 33 of 100
25N: 27 of 120
25H: 34 of 100
LFR: 27 of 90

A little above average in most cases, but still rather reasonable looking considering that more paladins means more vying for the precious few top percent. And still below disc priests.


When you take a loot at the DPriests as well, we come up about the same as them.

On specific fights we dominate. On specific fights DPriests do. On other fights, the field is much more even for all specs.

A quick looks shows us and DPriests at about 1/3 each, and everyone else sharing the rest about evenly.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
If anything about paladins is overpowered, it's our fashion sense. <flex>
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90 Human Priest
7320
Never really understood the whole nerf X healer cause I'm jealous crowd. Just seems childish to me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9100


In other words, assuming you were using the 4pc to maximum advantage, it's worth on the order of 38 ilvls worth of upgrades. By your experience, holy pallies were wearing 2 pieces of t15-equivalent gear before there even was a t15.

I suspect, however, that you weren't actually using it to its maximum advantage (if only because the advantage is multiplicative with your other gear, and your other gear is almost all LFR). I've seen very credible assertions that t14 normal 4-set is at least on par with t15 normal 4set, and t14 upgraded heroic may be BIS until upgrades come back out in 5.3.

Basically, I just want to make the point of how very powerful this particular set bonus is, and how bad it would be to make balance changes to paladins based on their performance in this particular gear. Gear gets replaced. Eventually. And the gap should start narrowing as other classes get geared up anyway.


Actually I replaced 5 pieces of 483-489 gear when I broke my set. The set was powerful. I'm not saying it's not, and I still keep it in my bags for when I need a little boost in HoPo generation speed (Garalon kiting is a great example in 10N).

The assumption that you have to hold onto T14 4pc however is equally flawed though. The jump in ilvls does counter-balanace the loss of set bonus. If I gained the T15 set bonus (2pc), it would have blown it out of the water, as a mix and match set. I can't say whether T15 4 piece will surpass T14 2pc/T15 2pc though. Intuitively, it doesn't look as promising.

Both T14 sets (2pc/4pc) are crazy powerful, especially when compared to other sets.. But so was the pre-nerf PVP set. The T15 set (4pc) not so much.


I'll just leave this thread here of one of the two most successful and best performing holy paladins in the world, saying the exact opposite of what you are saying.

http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?12632-Holy-Paladin-T15

As far as I am concerned, I don't understand why any healer would be worried about another one outperforming them. Healing is a team effort. When our disc priests were destroying the meters last tier, I was a happy panda. That isn't even to mention that meters are pretty unimportant when it comes to healing capability.

But yes, currently, paladins are a strong healing class.
Edited by Chlawl on 4/8/2013 12:41 PM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
10385
Because they are blizzards golden class and always have been? Well at least since late BC.


You mean when most Holy Paladins had to sit out of Sunwell raids for Resto Shaman stacking?

Or are your referring to post 3.0?
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100 Pandaren Monk
8680
While I am not on the "nerf pallies" train, I do advocate changes lowering just the mastery. I raid with a disc and hpally. Our progression isn't great but attendance and RL get in the way.vvwhen our hpally can't make it for whatever reason, the only effect it has is 40% over healing turns into 20%. The issue IMO is that you can buff all other healers and it wouldn't matter simply because there is soon much over healing by other classes right now. The ability to have your heals staticly apply another heal is a touch much. I means reduce mastery by 50% and increase healing by x%. I just am not a fan of a mastery that has such an immediate effect. I might be tainted by having the dumbest healing mastery in the game....but that's just me I guess. Sooooo. Nerf mastery and buff their healing...that's my vote. Btw...typing on my phone sooooo. The flow is probably off
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90 Draenei Monk
17435
04/08/2013 03:27 PMPosted by Petenorth
While I am not on the "nerf pallies" train, I do advocate changes lowering just the mastery.

Basically how I feel. Their mastery only needs a minor tweak imo, but it's absolutely accounting for an absurd percentage of their overall healing, considering what it is.
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100 Draenei Paladin
20185
Think of it this way....10m raid group forming

"Want a Holy Pally" *check*
"Want a Disc Priest" *check*
The Druid/Shaman & Monk all get to fight for that 3rd healer spot.

If all classes were more balanced, you may see people mixing up raid comp more often, and not NEEDING a Holy Pally, or NEEDING a Disc Priest. Even with all the nerfs to Disc raid leaders still want them over other classes.
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100 Pandaren Monk
8680
@ ginger. You are pretty much correct regarding desirability. But simply saying "needs a nerf" is unfair to paladins and any healer being pointed at. I love raiding with my HP buddy. But I think that any aspect of healing that accounts for a min of 35% of the healing done (that is a passive effect) needs to get looked at
Edited by Petenorth on 4/8/2013 4:50 PM PDT
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100 Pandaren Monk
8680
04/08/2013 04:13 PMPosted by Swaggle
While I am not on the "nerf pallies" train, I do advocate changes lowering just the mastery.

Basically how I feel. Their mastery only needs a minor tweak imo, but it's absolutely accounting for an absurd percentage of their overall healing, considering what it is.


Hit it on the head. Its just an inflation of numbers making them seem like a must have. Take a pally out of a raid and the other healers numbers increase not from increasing their effort but from doing the exact same thing.

Just imagine if ancestrial fortitude counted as a heal.....its basically what IH does, in the respect that it basically extends the health pool
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90 Human Paladin
7660
people will always complain about hpally's mastery. it's not illogical to think that if a paladin has stacked mastery and has 40% mastery, their meters should read 40% healing done was from illuminated healing. the only reason that it would be equal to or a greater percentage of overall healing would be that there is zero damage being done. in instances where there is very little damage going out IH will look extremely OP as it's the only thing being consumed, direct heals are "wasted" as overheals.

Would you rather see paladins go back in time of vanilla to where paladins were only brought for their buffs and CDs?

Paladin heals are slow in comparison to other healers, imo. Paladins can go oom in no time flat, if they are not careful with their spell management.

Comparing the top 1% of the logs isn't a justified position in comparison to the curve of players. You need to start looking between 25-75% margin to get a better set of numbers.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13255
04/08/2013 05:44 PMPosted by Basilius
Paladin heals are slow in comparison to other healers, imo. Paladins can go oom in no time flat, if they are not careful with their spell management.


I very rarely go oom, but i've played a healer from the start of my WoW life (end of BC). I rolled a pally because it was the only healing class i didn't have. In truth, i love this class. I enjoy the slow heals because they can crit for large numbers while putting on the mastery buff on my target. In LFRs (*giggle*) i hardly ever go oom. I just know how to manage my mana and when to use CD's.

Do i think out mastery should be touched? Maybe just a little. But we are not OP. Where we have to stop and cast a spell, other classes can keep moving and keep healing. Bad stuff under my feet while healer -stops, moves, starts cast again- while our raid's dpriest can just keep going. It is a give and take. Any class can be OP if someone wants them to be.
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90 Human Paladin
4140
Remember that WoW isn't just about PvE. There is also a large community of pvp oriented paladins that are currently struggling because of Hpally's very very limited survivability in arena's and battlegrounds. Nerfing paladins because other healing classes don't look as good on recount isn't the answer, there is a HIGH skill cap when it comes to playing any healer, especially paladins effectively in both pve and pvp. If you seriously want to increase your bragging rights on recount scores consider trying to improve your own playing style instead on saying that paladins healing is broken because somebody who plays there class better then you can beat you in healing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
Holy paladins OP

Better nerf Irelia
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100 Pandaren Monk
8680
people will always complain about hpally's mastery. it's not illogical to think that if a paladin has stacked mastery and has 40% mastery, their meters should read 40% healing done was from illuminated healing. the only reason that it would be equal to or a greater percentage of overall healing would be that there is zero damage being done. in instances where there is very little damage going out IH will look extremely OP as it's the only thing being consumed, direct heals are "wasted" as overheals.

Would you rather see paladins go back in time of vanilla to where paladins were only brought for their buffs and CDs?

Paladin heals are slow in comparison to other healers, imo. Paladins can go oom in no time flat, if they are not careful with their spell management.

Comparing the top 1% of the logs isn't a justified position in comparison to the curve of players. You need to start looking between 25-75% margin to get a better set of numbers.


Why to people auto go to :sunwell when it was nothing but resto shammans, or vanilla when we were blessing bots?"

you said it yourself. direct heals are wasted on overheals. its cause and effect. i never look at at top one percent...there is too many 'lets drop a healer to inflate numbers so we can rank' going on in the top one percent. and ALL healers can oom without proper spell management. the fact that all hpallys top heal is a passive effect. no other mastery is the same way in this game. and you say "IF' a pally stacks mastery....i dont think there is another logical way to stack as a holy pally. all i am saying is....nerf mastery and buff other aspects of your heals.

also the way most of the encounters are designed is bursts of heavy aoe damage, making IH stacking even more overpowered.

in closing i have never been an advocate for nerfing pallys.

its just a little knee-jerk to say "do you want pallys to be like they were in vanilla?" my answer...HELL NO. that sucked man. i just dont believe that such a strong mastery even belongs in this game tbh,

I was well aware of how OP my class was before the HoF nerf...it got fixed....disc got fixed (imo perfectly) pally mastery needs to be fixed...plain and simple
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MVP
91 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
12510
Holy paladins OP

Better nerf Irelia


mfw: http://imgur.com/xAaePup

Iloveyou.
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