Holy Pallies too strong

90 Pandaren Shaman
8685
04/08/2013 11:21 PMPosted by Suplift
The only reason our mastery seems so much stronger than everyone elses is because ours shows up on meters.


No, other healer mastery's aren't as effective as the H pally mastery. If you have 30% mastery your healing spells just straight up do 30% more healing that's 100% effective. Balanced


Monk Sphere's shows up on the meters as well FYI....

....and I have to agree that of all the Healer Mastery's Pallys have the least downside which is why it's the strongest. I wish the other Mastery's could be brought up to the same standard as opposed to asking for nerfs.
Edited by Indyana on 4/9/2013 7:37 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7255
This is an alt I main a resto shaman.

I find healing on this compared to my shaman, to be clunky waiting on holy power all the time. If you're running out of mana it's because you don't know what you're doing. The class doesn't matter at all in heals, its all timing....
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3940
Holy paladins OP

Better nerf Irelia


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Eiko told me about this.

I might have to re-think eating lobster now
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90 Draenei Monk
11275
I might have to re-think eating lobster now


Lobster Bisque sounds so good right now though...
Edited by Bloöm on 4/9/2013 9:02 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
7275
Holy paladins OP

Better nerf Irelia


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Eiko told me about this.

I might have to re-think eating lobster now


Honestly, as soon as I saw this thread, that was the first thing that came to my mind.

04/09/2013 09:02 AMPosted by Bloöm
I might have to re-think eating lobster now


Lobster Bisque sounds so good right now though...


Y...you monster!
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It's hard to gauge how strong Holy Paladins are while the old set bonuses are still in play, honestly I'm quite shocked they didn't break the set bonus like they usually coming into a new raiding patch.

A lot of players have been saying that T14 4set (especially if heroic and valor upgraded) is going to outshine T15 set bonuses for a while.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3940
That's not true, I have a holy priest and I know my team counts on me just as much as anyone else. Other healers especially count on the other healers. Paladins and disc priests can't do everything, and I rather enjoy having a shaman and a druid in my raids for the HoTs and CDs.

and symbiosis
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
That's not true, I have a holy priest and I know my team counts on me just as much as anyone else. Other healers especially count on the other healers. Paladins and disc priests can't do everything, and I rather enjoy having a shaman and a druid in my raids for the HoTs and CDs.

and symbiosis


/nod.

We may bring some raw "power" to the field, but we can't be everywhere, and the other healers have better toolsets in a lot of ways. Our numbers look big, but with slow cast times, we can easily be sniped if we don't already have an IH buff on someone (which required a heal in the first place).

In some fights we really shine. In others DPriests do. In others still, Monks do. Right now, we have a situational advantage based on what fights there are. If there were more Hor (replace boss name X) type fights, we wouldn't be topping the meters as often.
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90 Troll Shaman
12170
God, please don't nerf paladins. I don't even have a 90 one, but they are so nice to heal with.


HA! Our Mistweaver worked super hard and got mists up on all 10 players. Our Paladin topped everyone off in no time flat and then announced that me and the mistweaver needed to "heal harder" while we both watched those mists become 100% overhealing. Our Mistweaver was on the verge of rage quitting until I had to scream at our holy paladin. I typically have to announce HoT healing for him so he doesn't heal up people who don't have full mana bars. Having HoTs on you means you ARE getting healed.

That's my only beef. Healer synergy is just complete crap because players don't know how to work together. And people have this crazy idea that a full health bar = "we are going to die" mentality. Therefore: full bar with absorbtion > not full bar with full HoTs that will fill it before the next mechanic. The latter seems to induce panic.
Edited by Shaylana on 4/10/2013 9:57 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10335
04/10/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Shaylana
God, please don't nerf paladins. I don't even have a 90 one, but they are so nice to heal with.


HA! Our Mistweaver worked super hard and got mists up on all 10 players. Our Paladin topped everyone off in no time flat and then announced that me and the mistweaver needed to "heal harder" while we both watched those mists become 100% overhealing. Our Mistweaver was on the verge of rage quitting until I had to scream at our holy paladin. I typically have to announce HoT healing for him so he doesn't heal up people who don't have full mana bars. Having HoTs on you means you ARE getting healed.

That's my only beef. Healer synergy is just complete crap because players don't know how to work together. And people have this crazy idea that a full health bar = "we are going to die" mentality. Therefore: full bar with absorbtion > not full bar with full HoTs that will fill it before the next mechanic. The latter seems to induce panic.


That sounds like a team problem or your holy pally is so ignorant he doesn't understand how his other healer classes work.

In my 25man raid our healer comp is typically (2 pallies, monk, dpriest, sham, Druid) we 6 heal for heroics or when we feel like it Druid has a solid boomy OS. Even though the shammy and Druids "hps" is lower than the other 4 healers that does not mean they are weak. For example our shaman will spike to 500k hps during bust dmg in heroics.

-phone typing is fun sorry for typos due to autocorrect pressed for time atm
Edited by Gaudrik on 4/10/2013 10:22 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
04/10/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Shaylana
God, please don't nerf paladins. I don't even have a 90 one, but they are so nice to heal with.


HA! Our Mistweaver worked super hard and got mists up on all 10 players. Our Paladin topped everyone off in no time flat and then announced that me and the mistweaver needed to "heal harder" while we both watched those mists become 100% overhealing. Our Mistweaver was on the verge of rage quitting until I had to scream at our holy paladin. I typically have to announce HoT healing for him so he doesn't heal up people who don't have full mana bars. Having HoTs on you means you ARE getting healed.

That's my only beef. Healer synergy is just complete crap because players don't know how to work together. And people have this crazy idea that a full health bar = "we are going to die" mentality. Therefore: full bar with absorbtion > not full bar with full HoTs that will fill it before the next mechanic. The latter seems to induce panic.


Communication works wonders. If I know HoTs are incoming, I back off and spot heal in trouble spots. Doing raid wide healing is a huge mana drain for anyone.

No one healer can do it alone, and any pally who thinks he can will run himself OOM, then wait for racial/plea/trinket/LoH/pot/insight while the other healers cover him during his downtime. It's just creates an increased burden for everyone involved.
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90 Troll Shaman
12170
Communication works wonders. If I know HoTs are incoming, I back off and spot heal in trouble spots. Doing raid wide healing is a huge mana drain for anyone.

No one healer can do it alone, and any pally who thinks he can will run himself OOM, then wait for racial/plea/trinket/LoH/pot/insight while the other healers cover him during his downtime. It's just creates an increased burden for everyone involved.


yeah, I monitor HoTs as part of being a healer, but he does not. And yes, I've actually learned to compensate for when he goes low and burst out healing when he needs to channel Divine Plea. Magera was the telling fight in our raid. When I finally got him to stop healing during the Rampages, he suddenly went into the final rampage at 285K mana. He's learning, but the concept of him not one healing fights is something he's coming to grips with.

That's really why I think Paladins get a really bad rep - I had to show a different paladin world of log parses... I would isolate a time period and show that he popped an Eternal Flame on someone with Rejuv, Renew, Echoes of Life multiple times throughout the fight when raid healing wasn't his assignment. His 150K heal caused 150K overhealing and mana wastage for other healers. I had to fight the attitude of, "Well I didn't have any mana problems and it was still healing my tank through my beacon, what does it matter if I had extra HoPo" type attitudes.
Edited by Shaylana on 4/10/2013 11:14 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
10195
I had to fight the attitude of, "Well I didn't have any mana problems and it was still healing my tank through my beacon, what does it matter if I had extra HoPo" type attitudes.

Problem is, there's some truth to that. If he had just put up and EF on the tank, and he wasn't in need of another large direct heal, sprinkling around EF's is still effective, even if it is only for illuminated healing and beacon transfers. Especially if you are fine on mana. Paladins currently are, if not rewarded, then at least not penalized very much for overhealing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16150
04/10/2013 11:26 AMPosted by Mythrose
I had to fight the attitude of, "Well I didn't have any mana problems and it was still healing my tank through my beacon, what does it matter if I had extra HoPo" type attitudes.

Problem is, there's some truth to that. If he had just put up and EF on the tank, and he wasn't in need of another large direct heal, sprinkling around EF's is still effective, even if it is only for illuminated healing and beacon transfers. Especially if you are fine on mana. Paladins currently are, if not rewarded, then at least not penalized very much for overhealing.


With T14 4pc, the HoPo generation is fast enough to justify absorb & EF blanketing. HS/HL are near mana neutral after a certain spirit point. There's really no reason to ever waste a HS CD, and once you have 5 HoPo, you may as well use it on something.... it doesn't cost anything other than a GCD, and it keeps a shield running for another for a few more secs.

A lot of times, if I've already EF'd both tanks and myself, I start looking for "problem children" to pop shields on. I know they're going to do something that will cause them to eat some damage. I may as well preempt it, or at least top them off in advance (as long as mana is good).
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90 Human Paladin
15450
That's really why I think Paladins get a really bad rep - I had to show a different paladin world of log parses... I would isolate a time period and show that he popped an Eternal Flame on someone with Rejuv, Renew, Echoes of Life multiple times throughout the fight when raid healing wasn't his assignment. His 150K heal caused 150K overhealing and mana wastage for other healers. I had to fight the attitude of, "Well I didn't have any mana problems and it was still healing my tank through my beacon, what does it matter if I had extra HoPo" type attitudes.


I generate between 10 to 12 holy powers per minute. Holy power is capped at 5. If I don't use it, it is wasted. Even a 1 holy power EF is easily worth 40 - 50k shield by the time it finished ticking plus another 50k over time to the beacon target. Not great by itself, but when you have EF on 5 targets, it acts as a nice stabilizing heal.
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90 Troll Shaman
12170
I generate between 10 to 12 holy powers per minute. Holy power is capped at 5. If I don't use it, it is wasted. Even a 1 holy power EF is easily worth 40 - 50k shield by the time it finished ticking plus another 50k over time to the beacon target. Not great by itself, but when you have EF on 5 targets, it acts as a nice stabilizing heal.


Yeah, I get it. There's no reason to sit on HoPo. But if the raid isn't taking damage or your crapping all over someone else's healing assignment, it stops feeling like you're helping and starts feeling like you're selfishly sniping. At some point it may just be worth one healing fights with Paladins, because it "feels" that they're trying to do it anyway.

I'm not saying that Paladins are bad for doing so, I'm just saying when other healers are working so freakin' hard with their tool kit and a Paladin just dumps hopo because they can sniping heals and causing their EF to constantly overheal and are ignorant of what other healers are doing, it just drives me insane.
Edited by Shaylana on 4/10/2013 6:46 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
10265
IF my assignment is to handle the tanks only and I can'T put EF on anyone but the tanks than I am not doing my job to its fullest. The amount EF transfers through beacon is quite nice.

Since the pally toolkit depends somewhat on using holy power whether the heal is immediatle needed than maybe the Raid leaders need to rethink pigeoning thier pallies into only being the tank healer.

Also from what I see the majority of complainers about the amount of healing from IH comes from watching LFR heal meters. With the amount of healers in there and the massive amounts of Over healing going on, no wonder that pallies look so OP. Its not uncommon for me to do 25-30% of the healing doing nothing more than HR, LOD (1hp), HS, LOD (1hp), while beacon swapping for the entire fight. DOes this make pallies OP, no it makes effective use of the smart healing, fast small heals are more effective in LFR than slow big ones, as well as absorbs being more effective than hots.

wanna make your other healers look better on a meter ...drop a healer on your raid team. Push them to work together to cover the group instead of having so much overlap
Edited by Hershel on 4/10/2013 8:13 PM PDT
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35 Blood Elf Priest
0
Communication works wonders. If I know HoTs are incoming, I back off and spot heal in trouble spots. Doing raid wide healing is a huge mana drain for anyone.

No one healer can do it alone, and any pally who thinks he can will run himself OOM, then wait for racial/plea/trinket/LoH/pot/insight while the other healers cover him during his downtime. It's just creates an increased burden for everyone involved.


yeah, I monitor HoTs as part of being a healer, but he does not. And yes, I've actually learned to compensate for when he goes low and burst out healing when he needs to channel Divine Plea. Magera was the telling fight in our raid. When I finally got him to stop healing during the Rampages, he suddenly went into the final rampage at 285K mana. He's learning, but the concept of him not one healing fights is something he's coming to grips with.

That's really why I think Paladins get a really bad rep - I had to show a different paladin world of log parses... I would isolate a time period and show that he popped an Eternal Flame on someone with Rejuv, Renew, Echoes of Life multiple times throughout the fight when raid healing wasn't his assignment. His 150K heal caused 150K overhealing and mana wastage for other healers. I had to fight the attitude of, "Well I didn't have any mana problems and it was still healing my tank through my beacon, what does it matter if I had extra HoPo" type attitudes.


This isn't wrath. Telling a paladin he is strictly there for tank healing is outdated. Is he supposed to just beacon of light one tank and holy light the other? Putting eternal flames on the raid is a big boost to tank healing. You put out eternal flames on the raid to get a good amount of hots transferred to your beaconed target. And quite frankly if his eternal flaming the raid is resulting so so much of the other healers' heals going to over heal, you have too many healers in the raid.
Edited by Linalee on 4/10/2013 8:24 PM PDT
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