Rob Pardo back as Lead Designer for Expac #5.

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90 Draenei Mage
15255
I find it pretty funny how people assume that the quality of the game (or their subjective take on it) has to be the only reason people quit.

Have you considered the decline of income and job/work hour availability in places, growing recessions and austerity (particularly in Europe), or even getting over playing the exact same game for years, doing pretty much the exact same thing? (What made me quit for 3 months)

Also, there's also friends/guildies that quit, which sometimes kills some small guilds, for the reasons above and the usual IRL changes.

OT: One big part of what made BC and Wrath great was the familiarity. Both of those expansions were sourced from Warcraft 3 and Frozen Throne, and had a lot of familiar elements, themes, places, stories and people. While there isn't another game that can give us new elements (unless Blizz makes a new game in the Warcraft universe that is designed for consoles, hint Blizzard), we need familiar faces in WoW.

To achieve this, what was done with Garrosh needs to be used more often; characters making their way into story, doing things that give us strong feelings about them over time, and putting them in conflict with other characters who have been going through the same process.

This is probably why you get so many asking for Emerald Dream and Aszhara expansions, because those things have been introduced in the game, sound great, and are important.
90 Goblin Shaman
7885
I find it pretty funny how people assume that the quality of the game (or their subjective take on it) has to be the only reason people quit.

Have you considered the decline of income and job/work hour availability in places, growing recessions and austerity (particularly in Europe), or even getting over playing the exact same game for years, doing pretty much the exact same thing? (What made me quit for 3 months)

Also, there's also friends/guildies that quit, which sometimes kills some small guilds, for the reasons above and the usual IRL changes.

OT: One big part of what made BC and Wrath great was the familiarity. Both of those expansions were sourced from Warcraft 3 and Frozen Throne, and had a lot of familiar elements, themes, places, stories and people. While there isn't another game that can give us new elements (unless Blizz makes a new game in the Warcraft universe that is designed for consoles, hint Blizzard), we need familiar faces in WoW.

To achieve this, what was done with Garrosh needs to be used more often; characters making their way into story, doing things that give us strong feelings about them over time, and putting them in conflict with other characters who have been going through the same process.

This is probably why you get so many asking for Emerald Dream and Aszhara expansions, because those things have been introduced in the game, sound great, and are important.


Wrath reached its peak during one of the worst economic crisis since the 30s in NA (2008-2009), so no, i dont think economics is the reason why people are leaving.

And the story with Garrosh sucks, the Warcraft story was much better when Thrallw as Warchief and it wasnt a black and white story, but a more complex one, where everyone was in a grey area.

Good vs bad is a good story for a childrens book, not for Warcraft. Thrall gave complexity to WoW story.
90 Draenei Mage
15255
Wrath reached its peak during one of the worst economic crisis since the 30s in NA (2008-2009), so no, i dont think economics is the reason why people are leaving.


In the US* There is, in fact, a whole other world out there. Also, tell me how it's recovered?

And the story with Garrosh sucks, the Warcraft story was much better when Thrallw as Warchief and it wasnt a black and white story, but a more complex one, where everyone was in a grey area.


Almost all of Thrall's story was in Warcraft 3. Since then, ingame, the most he's done is go for a trip to Nagrand.

Good vs bad is a good story for a childrens book, not for Warcraft. Thrall gave complexity to WoW story.


You did notice that with Thrall as warchief in Wrath, the story essentially turned into good vs bad? Thrall was way too good compared to Varian (who has turned a bit Machiavellian), which wasn't complex at all. Leaders like Thrall pre-Cataclysm never exist in real life
Thrall only gained complexity with the pre-Cata events and onwards.

If you've ever quested Horde in Thousand Needles, you would know that there is more complexity to Garrosh than you're letting on.
90 Goblin Shaman
7885
04/18/2013 10:01 AMPosted by Eschatonin
Wrath reached its peak during one of the worst economic crisis since the 30s in NA (2008-2009), so no, i dont think economics is the reason why people are leaving.


In the US* There is, in fact, a whole other world out there. Also, tell me how it's recovered?


Yes, and the rest of the world also felt the effects. Billons of euros spent by the UE saving their banks show it.


And the story with Garrosh sucks, the Warcraft story was much better when Thrallw as Warchief and it wasnt a black and white story, but a more complex one, where everyone was in a grey area.


Almost all of Thrall's story was in Warcraft 3. Since then, ingame, the most he's done is go for a trip to Nagrand.


In game, yes, because Blizzard had no way to tell stories in game. In novels, he did more.

What changed is that Blizzard has decided to put more story in the game. But if we compare both stories, Thrall's wins by a long shot.


Good vs bad is a good story for a childrens book, not for Warcraft. Thrall gave complexity to WoW story.


You did notice that with Thrall as warchief in Wrath, the story essentially turned into good vs bad? Thrall was way too good compared to Varian (who has turned a bit Machiavellian), which wasn't complex at all. Leaders like Thrall pre-Cataclysm never exist in real life
Thrall only gained complexity with the pre-Cata events and onwards.

If you've ever quested Horde in Thousand Needles, you would know that there is more complexity to Garrosh than you're letting on.


It wasnt about Good vs Evil, both Thrall and Varian had good and bad points. Thrall admitted Varian's slave master to be around, Thrall admitted Garrosh to be in command of the Northrend forces, etc, etc, etc.
100 Orc Warlock
16275
04/14/2013 12:35 AMPosted by Trailed
Can something have more than one golden age?


WotLK may be considered the golden age because of # of subs but who knows!


Are you judging by number of subscriptions or growth of subscriptions? While WotLK had a higher total number of subscriptions than vanilla or BC, both vanilla and BC had a hell of a lot higher growth rates.

As for Rob Pardo being the lead designer of the next expansion, let me remind everyone here of something: he was also the executive producer of Diablo III.
Edited by Vreivai on 4/18/2013 1:10 PM PDT
100 Gnome Rogue
15895
Burning legion theme inc
90 Dwarf Hunter
8865
I am feeling really good about expansion 5.

For those that don't know, Rob Pardo was the Lead Designer for WoW'nilla and The Burning Crusade. I think we're about to reach WoW's golden-age with expansion 5.


I'm more convinced than ever; The Banshee Queen is taking over the Horde, and the Burning Legion is coming back. Time to start securing names for my Dark Ranger...
90 Human Hunter
7900
This means he is out of d3? omg whats going on with that game...
100 Human Paladin
18060
I think the big problem in Cata and MoP was and is catering to those asking for harder content.

Cataclysm dungeons drove away a lot of people, and MoP grinds and hard raids made around half the raiders to stop raiding.


GC tweeted an interesting comment that most players in Vanilla/BC didn't even do 5 (or, I suppose earlier, 10) man dungeons, let alone raids. They leveled to cap and rolled alts.

I wonder if they expected this behavior to return in Cataclysm, if heroics/raids were tuned higher again. That would explain all the emphasis on the redone leveling experience: here's the content you can level those alts in! If so, it must have been a shock when lots of people decided to unsub instead.
There are a number of posts saying that one person does not by themself dictate the quality of the game. I agree. However, what you also should know is that the opinion of anyone in a lead position is going to have more weight.

When I worked in the studio, you had this guy who was the producer. It's a title that doesn't really have any set description other than "do what you can to make sure that this product is the best you can provide." Everything that happened in the studio was run by him. In the end, it was his call to say "you know what, I think this needs to change" or "I think what you have there is absolute gold, let's keep it." And he has a reputation to uphold. He delegated much of the work to other people who had more specialized skills. He always had the big picture in mind and left the small stuff to people suited to take care of it.

While I'm not saying a lead designer is going to have this exact kind of impact (it is a bit of an exaggeration when I read it again), when you are put in a position like that, there's no benefit to do poor work. You are more responsible for the results, and you have a reputation to keep.
100 Human Paladin
11735
and perhaps he will bring into the game some very innovative ideas in game that is 8 plus years old that will still enthrall and entice players of all ages from those that have been here for the duration to those yet to even try, all we can do is wait, wonder and welcome another expansion in a game that has in large part remained at the top of the mmo market despite those that have left, will leave and for some re-enter in the future.
100 Night Elf Death Knight
16255
I'm very excited to hear this, I loved TBC, didn't get to play a lot of vanilla so can't really comment on it. I never really liked Ghostcrawler, WotLK was okay, but I still thought Ghostcrawler took a lot from the game. I'm interested to see how it all plays out. Blizzcon tomorrow!
100 Human Paladin
13715
Can something have more than one golden age?


According to Civ 5, yes.
90 Tauren Druid
12115
This may not add that much to the conversation (so i will by saying that Pardo being back makes me hopeful, but at the same time I understand that just because the LD position changed doesn't mean the entire game will change), but it's been bugging me for a long time.

All the people who use the rose-colored goggles argument (we only remember the good stuff and not the bad) always seem to just remember the bad stuff and never the good.

Hi Pot, I'm Kettle!
90 Human Paladin
10925
The number one goal of a company is to make money. It does not make them corrupt. You understand that south park is a comedy and most of the things they poke fun at are not real right?

For satire to "get over", there must be at least some truth to it. That's what South Park has always been.
40 Pandaren Hunter
6100
NUCLEAR NECRO LAUNCH DETECTED

My god, this thread is from April, Mr. DK necro-person!
90 Gnome Priest
9750
I'm very excited to hear this, I loved TBC, didn't get to play a lot of vanilla so can't really comment on it. I never really liked Ghostcrawler, WotLK was okay, but I still thought Ghostcrawler took a lot from the game. I'm interested to see how it all plays out. Blizzcon tomorrow!


Ghostcrawler does systems (lead systems designer), he was not lead designer of any expansion. Chilton, Kaplan, and Pardo have been the lead designers.
Edited by Mescyn on 11/7/2013 7:48 AM PST
92 Night Elf Warrior
8070
NUCLEAR NECRO LAUNCH DETECTED

My god, this thread is from April, Mr. DK necro-person!


i think its a bit relevant, to whats going to be released soon.
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