Duels

90 Human Paladin
9740
Hello brothers in the Light.

I come today seeking knowledge of your experience dueling amongst other classes. Which classes do you find to be most formidable? Which classes do you take pity on when flawlessly defeating them?

What are your tricks you use in combat, and in duels?

I'll start:

Rogues:
Some things I love doing in rogue duels to throw them off: BoP the opener, using Blinding Light to relieve pressure, Then use HoJ to force a trinket.

When they vanish and use CDs, make sure to trinket when they have Garroted AND cheaped you. No point in trinketing a Garrote and then being cheaped or vice versa. Unless using Burst of Speed, rogues are extremely easy to kite. Remember that Judgement is physical, dont be afraid to use it when a rogue pops Cloak and sprints off for a restealth. Also, taunting a rogue keeps them in combat too.

A Holy Prism @player Macro is great for unstealthing the pesky bastards.

DKs:

Spam Cleanse whenever it's up. Keep Hand of freedom up, and dont be afraid to bubble early. You can fear the DK's pet, and the DK during lichborne, if you are glyphed into it, it's instant. Never be in melee range unless you're ready to pump out damage. Remember that healing is way more important than damage, and that beating a DK will most of the time come down to outlasting, and outhealing them. Watch for Dark Sim

Hunters:

Hunters are quite easy to beat in my opinion. All specs are pretty much identical to beat, however BM is the most predictable. Wait until they pop bestial, then try to close the gap between you and the hunter. Blinding light them both. Vial Cooldowns is a great addon that shows the targets cooldowns above their nameplate. Watch for silencing shot, they will use it whenever it is up. Most of the time you can spam flash of light when Silencing shot is on CD, but if you're in a dire situation, Aura Mastery is priceless. Don't be afraid to HoJ a BM's pet, and dont be afraid to Pre-BoP a powershot. Its a one minute CD, so you'll be able to BoP it back up. Forcing a hunters deterrence is easy, and they die really fast from simple things such as Judgement and Exo.

Mages:

Mages are tricky, and but extremely predictable. They will burst you with the following setup: nova, CS, frost bomb, frozen orb, deep etc.

Trinket the first burst, bubble the second, and then use divine protecton and Aura for the thirst. You should be able to kill them by then, Most mages glyph iceblock, which mages them immune to the first 3 spells after a block, so dont try to blind/HoJ out of a block. Killing the pet is never a bad idea either, just dont become too sidetracked. Interrupting a Frostfire will lock them from fire & frost, but I dont a mage will cast when in interrupt range. Once again, mages are a matter of outliving, and out healing.

Warriors:

Ah yes, our more reckless brothers. Warriors are the most susceptible to kiting, and the most susceptible to BoP. BoP their burst, Keep at distance with Burden, save cooldowns to burst through SW, shield wall, rally, dstance etc.

Shams:

Haven't dueled many shams in my time

Warlocks:

Destro: Extremely predictable: Fear into a Dark soul Chaos bolt dump. bubble is the key here. Many times have I shut down a destro by simply bubbling when the Chaos Bolt WAS ABOUT TO HIT. Thats right, you're in a fear, and they pop CD's and start dumping chaos bolts. When you see the first Chaos Bolt, don't panic, wait until it's close to hitting you then bubble. They will have most likely already casted another by that time, wasting at least 2 burning embers.

Demo: Bubble Demon form + Imp Swarm + Dark soul.

I don't care if you have taken any damage yet, but they hurt, they freakin hurt you so bad. Use Divine Protection and Aura mastery to live through the rest of the burst.

Locks in general: Make sure that before you burst you do a # of things:

Get BLood Horror off, have a trinket up, and try to make them Pop unbound will.

If you see them pop Dark Bargain, you have a few choices that are situational:

Continue the attack, they will take 50% of the damage as a dot over time after it ends. So if you do 600k during Dark bargain they will get a Dot that will tick for 300k etc.

If you're low on health you might want to take some time to Heal now, but dont be confused, they can still attack, and have a blanket.

Warlock pets are annoying, but spamming Fear Evil will due you no good when it finally DRs. Save fear evil for when you need to heal, but make sure to use it every once in a while to relieve pressure.

Druids:

Ferals: Just like rogues, except they can still clone you while BoPed. It might be a good idea to BoP incarnation, especially to rid yourself of their ridiculous bleeds.

Boomies: Boomies are our leather twins. (in a way) What they lack for in defensives, they make up for in healing, and they will full restore many times. Solar beam is your biggest enemy, but it can be countered. If you are rooted in a beam, and about to get hammered, just Bubble. Remember that boomies have no other interrupts, so you can free cast once beam is out. If you happen to be able to run out of a beam/vortex, you can Aura Mastery yourself when you get out so you wont be blanketed. They can tank your burst in bear form, and can outheal your damage in a cyclone. You will almost never have a short duel against a boomy. However you shouldn't lose. You can unterrupt 3 times as often, and heal without threat of being locked infinitely more than they can. Boomies only have chance to destroy you with all CD's popped in a beam. So be cautious.

Spriests: Spriests are tough, just watch for DP and Mind Flay insanity. If you're using Vial cooldowns, you can see the CD of psychic scream. they use it like a hunter uses silencing shot: every time it's up. I like to watch for it to be up, them move out of melee range for a second or two, playing cautiously, and I find that a majority of times I can dodge it. Save your trinket for 3 orbs, and save your HoJ for when you need to bubble, so it wont get MDed instantly. Remember that if you shadow lock a priest they cant disperse. If they silence you and proceed to burst, dont be afraid to trinket a silence. It's actually smart.

Rets: Save yourself 45 minutes and call it a draw.

Monks: I hate monks so much. I have only won 2-3 duels agains them. Their constant damage is absurd, and they counter your burst in so many ways.

Touch of Karma is removed by Bubble, but dont waste it. Xuen means they want to burst. Monks can interrupt, and have A LOT of uptime on you. That's bad. It's hard to kite a Monk. But heres the tradeoff, if you manage to live through ring of peace, Fists of Fury, tigerseye brew, Xuen, Nimble Brew, Trinket, and fortifying brew, and you still have CDs, MONKS !@#$ING EXPLODE. Seriously. I played my cards perfectly against a monk, got Touch of Karma through Guardian + Damage trinket, bopped myself out of Fist of Fury + Xuen + Tigers brew, and when he didnt have Ring of Peace I 100-0 ed him in a HoJ. They die. It's true, they really do die. They will roll over and die if you time it right. I'm talking HA + AW + Inq, 120k hammer crits, 100k TV, 50k Judges, 50k Exos. He knew it was over.

But it's a rarity, and monks are by far, my hardest counter.

Just remember that duels are entirely situational, and I know there is another thread for Ret "Tips and Tricks" but these are some of the tips I've come up with in my time spend playing Ret in MoP. Hope you enjoy and share some of yours!
Edited by Gildriel on 4/15/2013 10:44 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Paladin
9270
I have to say very informative. I learned something new out of this too, about using taunt to keep Rogues in combat. I never even thought of that to be honest.

The only concern I have is when you say to BL when they go Bestial. I've found it a bit less stressful when you BL their Stampede... keeping all those pets off of you throughout the duration of Stampede has been very vital for me.

I unexpectedly got ganked by a Demo Lock yesterday... of course it didn't help he had Mograine and not to mention the hits from the Perimeter Wards at the same time, I was pretty much toast. I had Mograine too, but once he Dark Bargained I tried to keep on the offensive which I felt was a mistake instead of playing a little more defense.

I didn't play smart on that one, and I paid the consequences for it.
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90 Human Paladin
3555
Blow CDs and hope for the best.
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90 Tauren Paladin
9270
Blow CDs and hope for the best.


I'm not the type of person to come on the forums and talk negative towards people...

But I can honestly see why people give you a lot of !@#$ on here.
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90 Human Paladin
9740

04/15/2013 12:14 PMPosted by Buhbuhdin
Blow CDs and hope for the best.


I'm not the type of person to come on the forums and talk negative towards people...

But I can honestly see why people give you a lot of !@#$ on here.


I honestly wouldn't be bothered by this guy. Thanks for the positive feedback however!
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90 Tauren Paladin
9270



I'm not the type of person to come on the forums and talk negative towards people...

But I can honestly see why people give you a lot of !@#$ on here.


I honestly wouldn't be bothered by this guy. Thanks for the positive feedback however!


No problem, it's always nice to see people trying to give informative advice on how to handle those 1v1 situations against other classes.

It just gets old to see the same people go "Ret sux" and then they have no reasoning or backup claim as to why. It just shows me it's a L2P issue and it does nothing but demoralize the Paladin community. It's especially worse when you look at someones armory and see every single thing wrong as to why they're complaining about this spec.

I do have one question though about the taunt on Rogues to keep them in combat. Does that work when they use smokebomb?
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90 Human Paladin
9740
I have no clue, I haven't tried, but I would think not. But I am curious as to whether you can Holy Prism yourself by the smokebomb, to make the beam strike the rogue.
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90 Human Paladin
3555
I have no clue, I haven't tried, but I would think not. But I am curious as to whether you can Holy Prism yourself by the smokebomb, to make the beam strike the rogue.


No.
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90 Tauren Paladin
9270
04/15/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Amuroraye


I'm not the type of person to come on the forums and talk negative towards people...

But I can honestly see why people give you a lot of !@#$ on here.

I don't give a flying !@#$ what you or anyone else thinks. These work good in theory, poorly in practice - we've been told time and time again that the game isn't balanced around 1vs1.

Hunters/Warriors/Shammys/Druids/Monks should be easy kills (hunters especially so if you have Burden of Guilt selected instead of judgement) The rest are going to take some clever playing and constant healing - I'd recommend stacking crit/ and PVP power to up your heals, keeping inqu up and make sure you have Selfless Healer.

Now go %^-* yourself.


It's kind of funny how out of every one who has insulted you, put you down, and mocked you my comment has made you the most upset and I hardly even said anything.

However it's kind of a relief to know you'll be unsubscribing.

Oh wait, as soon as you catch wind of a Ret buff you then change your mind.

Hence as to why you are FOTM douche bag.

Now go get steamrolled by a DK. Seeing as how you're the only one who does.
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90 Human Paladin
9740
I'd recommend stacking crit/ and PVP power to up your heals


Yeah okay, you do that. I'm just curious as to how you have 300 arenas won, yet not world wide winner, or hotstreak? But yet you seem to know your stuff so well?

Go away now.

04/15/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Amuroraye
I don't give a flying !@#$ what you or anyone else thinks.


Yes I had the same attitude in high school, it'll pass shortly, don't you worry.

Now look at what you've done, you've made me go all ad hominem on you. Damnit.

Now you have a few options to justify your so called "wealth of knowledge" with your unsupportive background.

3k chiev points, 0 arena ratings, 1500 in RBGs?, nothing past LFR tier on raids.

Missing basic achievements like 2 classes to max level.

Mining fully maxed, but JC not, yet dancing steel weapon chain.

Just really odd things like that.

Do you have some good friends that play this game, and get you into RBGs, and give you handouts?

I mean this is what is safe to assume

So you
a) play this game to PvP, but are terrible at pvp, yet got into a good RBG group somehow.

b) play this game to PvE, but havent put the time or effort into gearing PvE or raiding

c) are a casual gamer, who doesnt have time to devote to either PvP or PvE, and theres no problem there, except you claim to have extensive knowledge of PvP, and you clearly spend plenty of time on the forums.

04/15/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Amuroraye
we've been told time and time again that the game isn't balanced around 1vs1.


Right, theres no debate there. Thats why this thread was made, because there is no obvious we have x to counter y. It's because the game is balanced around 1v1, so thats why fellow rets pitch in to share our knowledge and tips.

but i see you are just going to presume the roll of the butthurt terribad, so I'll note not to pay attention to you in the future.

Thanks for the giggles
Edited by Gildriel on 4/15/2013 2:00 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
3555
Because unlike you and the douche above, I realize this is a game and I do it for fun. I started back in September - it hasn't even been a year. I don't use Legacy or Achivements, or RBG/Arena rating to measure my fun or "skill" because honestly I don't care. I ask questions to gain input from others, because unlike you and a few other "elitist" I realize there might be someone out there who does it better/different than me. And I'm ok with that.

So please, save the *#@!#!*% measuring to real life accomplishments (I'm sure that's something you'll learn about once you move out of mom and dad's basement) and play the game.
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90 Human Paladin
3555
It's kind of funny how out of every one who has insulted you, put you down, and mocked you my comment has made you the most upset and I hardly even said anything.

However it's kind of a relief to know you'll be unsubscribing.

Oh wait, as soon as you catch wind of a Ret buff you then change your mind.

Hence as to why you are FOTM douche bag.

Now go get steamrolled by a DK. Seeing as how you're the only one who does.


It''s so amazing that you know so much about me, and I never even seen you post before. Time to stop stalking my post and insulting me to fit in - group think isn't something to be proud of.
Edited by Amuroraye on 4/15/2013 2:34 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9740
So please, save the *#@!#!*% measuring to real life accomplishments (I'm sure that's something you'll learn about once you move out of mom and dad's basement) and play the game.


lol.
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90 Tauren Paladin
9270
It's kind of funny how out of every one who has insulted you, put you down, and mocked you my comment has made you the most upset and I hardly even said anything.

However it's kind of a relief to know you'll be unsubscribing.

Oh wait, as soon as you catch wind of a Ret buff you then change your mind.

Hence as to why you are FOTM douche bag.

Now go get steamrolled by a DK. Seeing as how you're the only one who does.


It''s so amazing that you know so much about me, and I never even seen you post before. Time to stop stalking my post and insulting me to fit in - group think isn't something to be proud of.


Yes I frequently read up on the Paladin forums. Why? Because it's my favorite class, and I tend to learn new things at times. I have in fact learned that you are in incompetent overly defensive narrow-minded prick who is one of the few that gives the Paladin class a bad name.

To say I "stalk" your post is not only asinine but completely absurd, ridiculous and just flat out stupid. It's also pretty narcissistic for you to believe that someone in this game comes on here to blatantly follow your post. I don't post on here as frequent as you do so yes - you don't see any post from me.

As to fitting in on here was probably the most laughable statement I have read in a long time. To try and fit in on a gaming forum makes as much sense as a fish riding a bicycle. This is forum column, and I have every right to exercise my opinion, as you do yours. Except I'm confident enough to know I don't make ridiculous post to get myself trolled like you have. And before you even attempt to mention it, I'm not trolling. It's not my style. Just like playing a Paladin isn't yours.

And to Gildriel, I apologize for letting this nuisance derail the purpose of this thread. I admit I partook in it for a moment, but sometimes you have to clear up the inane comments Amuroraye has posted. Your thread was helpful and I hope others who are learning this class learn something from this.
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90 Human Paladin
9740
And to Gildriel, I apologize for letting this nuisance derail the purpose of this thread. I admit I partook in it for a moment, but sometimes you have to clear up the inane comments Amuroraye has posted. Your thread was helpful and I hope others who are learning this class learn something from this.


No worries, we're on common ground here. My best piece of advice is just to ignore him. You should see the other crap he posts in these forums. Like not being able to 1v1 a dk. lol.He's an intriguing character. but, I must write a 5 page essay so I will be monitoring this thread less often.

To all those who come into this thread mid-way, I only advise you not to become entangled in the highlight of Amumoraye's day and his forum drama, and instead just to respond constructively. He isn't self conscious enough to realizes how immature he appears, and he's too arrogant to take a hint from anyone telling him to chill out.
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90 Human Paladin
3555


It''s so amazing that you know so much about me, and I never even seen you post before. Time to stop stalking my post and insulting me to fit in - group think isn't something to be proud of.


Yes I frequently read up on the Paladin forums. Why? Because it's my favorite class, and I tend to learn new things at times. I have in fact learned that you are in incompetent overly defensive narrow-minded prick who is one of the few that gives the Paladin class a bad name.

To say I "stalk" your post is not only asinine but completely absurd, ridiculous and just flat out stupid. It's also pretty narcissistic for you to believe that someone in this game comes on here to blatantly follow your post. I don't post on here as frequent as you do so yes - you don't see any post from me.

As to fitting in on here was probably the most laughable statement I have read in a long time. To try and fit in on a gaming forum makes as much sense as a fish riding a bicycle. This is forum column, and I have every right to exercise my opinion, as you do yours. Except I'm confident enough to know I don't make ridiculous post to get myself trolled like you have. And before you even attempt to mention it, I'm not trolling. It's not my style. Just like playing a Paladin isn't yours.

And to Gildriel, I apologize for letting this nuisance derail the purpose of this thread. I admit I partook in it for a moment, but sometimes you have to clear up the inane comments Amuroraye has posted. Your thread was helpful and I hope others who are learning this class learn something from this.

My first thought- You take this WAY too seriously. Why do you care what people who you've never met think about ME (another person you have never met) and why does that matter? Why are you concerned with trying to impress people who are so easily judgmental in the first place? It’s pathetic how low your type will stoop to in an attempt to assimilate with the popular culture in here.

I still don't recognize your name or your avatar, nor do I really care to inspect you further - and this goes for anyone who posts in here. (I can only assume that you have investigated me, based on how you referenced two different posts in two different topics. That is a little creepy) I have not and will not look at your post history, your achievements or anything else about you in an attempt to make a witty retort, because I don’t base my self-worth on videogame. Obviously this isn’t the case for your situation, and I’m actually starting to pity you and your vain attempts to gain acceptance by jumping a bandwagon.
Edited by Amuroraye on 4/15/2013 3:57 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
9740
04/15/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Amuroraye
My first thought- You take this WAY too seriously. Why do you care what people who you've never met think about ME (another person you have never met) and why does that matter? Why are you concerned with trying to impress people who are so easily judgmental in the first place? It’s pathetic how low your type will stoop to in an attempt to assimilate with the popular culture in here.


Okay kiddo, listen up. This isn't high school, there are no clicks, no popular kids, no lunch tables, no assimilation. You're an arrogant kid, and you're making no sense. Listen here, no one is sitting here spamming F5 waiting for a response from you. You're not popular, you're not important, and you're not impressing anyone with your Pop-psychology that you think you can use to psycho-analyze everyone. I'm not sure what you mean by "your type" but I'm sure you're trying to assume that everyone on these forums has yet to

move out of mom and dad's basement


and is some "fat neckbeard loser who has never had sex." That's priceless. Your attempts to psycho-analyze people only inflect inwards upon your childish nature. In your head you're winning this "fight" but in reality, you appear as a screaming child that everyone is wondering where his/her parents are.

Second I still don't recognize your name or your avatar, nor do I really care - and this goes for anyone who posts in here. (I can only assume that you have investigated me, based on how you referenced two different posts in two different topics. That is a little creepy) I have not and will not look at your post history, your achievements or anything else about you in an attempt to make a witty retort, because I don’t base my self-worth on videogame. Obviously this isn’t the case for your situation, and I’m actually starting to pity you and your vain attempts to gain acceptance by jumping a bandwagon.


You come to a video game forums, to tell everyone that you dont care about video games. You respond to countless posts, with the typical "I am better IRL" response. You are? You really are? You know, you're right. None of us know you. No one here has had any contact with you outside of these forums. and thats fine. I wont make assumptions about your life, unlike you have several times, but I can make all the assumptions about you based on the intelligence witnessed in your posts. So if you're going to apply

04/15/2013 02:33 PMPosted by Amuroraye
It''s so amazing that you know so much about me, and I never even seen you post before.


to yourself, then that means the same applies to everyone else you're talking to. Unless you do know me, and I a unaware of it. But then that would be an example of

(I can only assume that you have investigated me, based on how you referenced two different posts in two different topics. That is a little creepy


and thats only referencing the forums. Just imagine how truly creepy it would be if you actually monitored our lives?

So you're all over the place with your garbage kid. You really need to settle down and clarify some things. If we cant make judgements about the horrendous being you are away from the computer, then you can't make judgements about who we are away from the computer.

Secondly, your entire childish attitude of

04/15/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Amuroraye
Why do you care what people who you've never met think about ME (another person you have never met) and why does that matter?


Let me tell you why people "we have never met" care what other people think. Because when you finally graduate high school, you'll find out that not everyone in the would is a giant douchebag. I'm not Buhbuhdin's friend, I don't know him outside of WoW, but hes another rational human being. He doesnt come to the forums to talk trash and try to gain some enjoyment out of it. And if I found out that he was murdered, I wouldnt just act like "LOL I DIDNT KNOW THAT GUY SO WHO CARES" because he's another human being. You clearly don't understand this concept, and won't understand it for some time until you undergo some mental maturing.

Once again, you're a great troll. Most trolls can't get me to respond, but you sir, you can get a response out of me. 8.5/10
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90 Human Rogue
9600
you're all trash


Please stop bad rogue
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