Majestical, Intelligent and Ancient Kaldorei

That have lived for 15,000-20,000 years.

How do you feel when people choose to create a Night Elf far exceeding the ages of Tyrande and Malfurion, plus a few others(maybe. I don't know how many others are as old as those two)? I haven't been keeping up with the recent lore that well, since after WoLTK. Cataclysm and MoP haven't lived to my expectations much. Don't Night Elves usually only live for 7,000-11,000 years anymore?
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90 Night Elf Hunter
9905
20k as far as I am concerned is VERY far fetched.

However my Druid is 12k years old. Given that they used to be immortal with the Well of Eternity.

I have no problems with seeing a Kaldorei that is around 15k years old. It's kind of expected.
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90 Human Mage
13045
I'm not certain about how long their actual lifespans are these days - outside of a non-canon RPG book, that's never really touched upon in any meaningful way. But I do know that both Malfurion and Tyrande these days show definite signs of age. Anyone in the age span you described, unless playing with an extreme elderly feel to their night elf, either simply haven't done the research, or are willfully ignorant. They will *not* be as agile or graceful as the younger Elves. They have a long lifespan, but they are not immortal, nor ageless in any sense of the word. The novel Wolfheart had many instances of both Malfurion and Tyrande noticing quietly that their reflexes weren't as sharp anymore, or their senses not as keen.

My personal issue is with the YOUNG elves, rather than the old ones. The implausably young Night Elves; particularly bad examples involve them being born and raised on Teldrassil; a tree less than a decade old. One thing that's not quite as bad, but still a mild peeve of mine is people who state their age in years that imply a more human-speed aging. Personally, if I were to do this, I would explicitly state that my Night Elf is, for example, the Kaldorei *equivalent* of a human's 42 years old. If only because Elven lifespans and how fast they age and mature isn't something I'm terribly knowledgable in, if the information is indeed out there.
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Lia - 12,000 isn't that bad, but I think it gets a little too much when they're past 15,000. The Kaldorei -do- live long lives, but I only expect a very rare few to get to that age, yet I see many Roleplayers that do it. It would be interesting to have a very aged character like a Night Elf, but they're going to be more experienced than anybody(aside from the Dreanei) no matter what :P. Sometimes I find it a bit silly when someone wants to make them so old.

Blazieth - I hear ya. I try to point out that Teldrassil couldn't possibly be the birth place for a young-adult Kaldorei to Roleplayers that have it. As for the lifespans of them.. I just looked it up on WoWWikia :L. That's how I learn about any of that. Also learn through other players that read the books.
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90 Human Paladin
5930
04/20/2013 03:06 AMPosted by Blazieth
One thing that's not quite as bad, but still a mild peeve of mine is people who state their age in years that imply a more human-speed aging.


I see no reason for them to age at a rate dramatically different from humans and then more or less cease to age at maturity for a very, very long time. Perhaps instead of taking about 20 years it takes them 30 or 40. But the notion that an elf is a legitimately immature, undeveloped child for as long as many people seem to feel they should be you'd think they'd have been killed off by war and stuff faster than they could reproduce millenia ago.

Super old night elves don't bother me, though I do agree that 20,000 years is really getting carried away. My issue is when people make a character that is several hundred or even thousand years old that somehow lacks the maturity and insight that would come with that kind of life experience. Think of your 90 year old grandparents, how much different they must be from when they were in their teens or twenties even, and consider how much different their perspectives and priorities might be if they were 400, 1000, or 5000 years old.
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Took the words out of my mouth. Last night I was trying to think about what I was going to say when addressing that, but I got too tired and forgot. But anyways, that does bother me often. They don't have to be serious-face, but they shouldn't be as dumb, naive and reckless as a lot of teens in the real world are. But we do have to consider their aging process. 300 is roughly 15-17 in Human years. I'd estimate 700 being 19-22. Now you get college kids. I think I'd apply this peeve when they're nearly 2000 years old and still acting like a child. Kaldorei society wouldn't appreciate someone like that in the slightest.
Edited by Sameille on 4/20/2013 3:57 PM PDT
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I see no problem with Kaldorei as old you mentioned. They've only been mortal for so long, and so all Night Elves who are at or somewhere beyond their prime should be biologically aging roughly at the same rate.
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90 Human Paladin
5930
Took the words out of my mouth. Last night I was trying to think about what I was going to say when addressing that, but I got too tired and forgot. But anyways, that does bother me often. They don't have to be serious-face, but they shouldn't be as dumb, naive and reckless as a lot of teens in the real world are. But we do have to consider their aging process. 300 is roughly 15-17 in Human years. I'd estimate 700 being 19-22. Now you get college kids. I think I'd apply this peeve when they're nearly 2000 years old and still acting like a child. Kaldorei society wouldn't appreciate someone like that in the slightest.


I'm not understanding why a night elf has to be physically 15-17 for 200 years and take another 400 years to fully mature into adulthood. They have long lives, that doesn't mean they take centuries to grow and develop. Taking average life span and dividing it up to direct proportions to the human growth and aging process makes absolutely no sense. Even Tolkein's immortal elves didn't seem to take nearly that long to mature.

I can see a long-lived species deciding that honorary adulthood isn't bestowed until one is several hundred years old, and while that individual may be regarded as a child until then, I have a hard time believing they are developmentally an awkard teenager. The Night Elves would have been wiped out millenia ago because they couldn't replenish their population faster than they lost warm bodies.

A Night Elf's world experience would probably have them mentally maturing at a rate closer to humans, rather than taking 300 years to reach the maturity level of the average 15 year old human child.

Taking the average Night Elf life span and dividing it by, say, 80, is not a good way to determine growth and maturity rates for Night Elves. Natural selection would have weeded out such stupidly slow developmental rates in the early years of their society, let alone more recent wars.

This actually bothers me a lot more than elves that are way too immature for their age or way too young.
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90 Night Elf Mage
13765
The only improbability is if a Night Elf is over 20,000 years old - in such a case their empire hadn't even been born yet and they as a race were still Dark Trolls. But I'd say even 15,000 is the max a Night Elf could be - as the Twin Empires were still at their prime during this time and bashing off the assault of the Aqir.

But at 15,000 that seems to be a good time for the Night Elves to appear and begin waging their own war against the recovering Twin Empires.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
5305
Contrary to what many people are saying here, every source I've read in researching nelfs says that they come to physical maturity at the same rate as humans, i.e. a 20 year old night elf is physically an adult.

But a 20 year old night elf is not considered an adult. Seems like 100, at the youngest, is about the time a night elf begins to be considered "adult", that's what I gathered. Keep in mind that the education of a night elf might literally involve spending months or years studying minutely the growth a single plant or animal. This is how they operate -- and this defines how they look at "maturity".
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Eldevanne - I get what your saying, and now it does make sense. I wasn't thinking of it in a sense like that.

Rottingbull - I see. While I was out doing things today I thought about that. "Maybe they age normally for an amount of time, and then it slows drastically afterwards..."

Also, I stumbled upon charts that depicted evolution of the races and their origins, as well as the page on WoWWiki that stated Dark Elves(First form of Night Elves) didn't come across the Well of Eternity until 10,000-15,000 years ago, so before that point, they wouldn't have been immortal, and I see everywhere that they were descended from Trolls, a species that lives relatively short lives, roughly 70 years. I didn't see if it said Elves lived longer once they evolved/mutated from them, but I'm assuming it wasn't by a significant amount.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Race_origins
Edited by Sameille on 4/21/2013 1:25 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Death Knight
5305
I actually read somewhere earlier today that the "age of majority" for a night elf is 320. I think it was on wowwiki.
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Yeah. They're often seen as grown in the early 300s.
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Night elfWoWRPG 320 500 650 700 5,000 and sometimes more. [n 7] Immortality may have been regained from the regrowth of Nordrassil.[citation needed]

I always was pretty confused about that and was trying to figure it out for myself so I could be more comfortable Rp-Wise. My character has to be young, like early adulthood, because I don't have so much knowledge myself about lots of lore related things.

What I found on Wikkiwow is this

Adulthood = 320
Middle Age = 500
Old - 650
Venerable = 700
Maximum lifespan = 5000 +

So now, how do I figure that out? I see you guys talking about characters being 12 000, 15 000 and 20 000 + years old...Is that because they lived a long time during the period while they were immortal, and now adding +- 5000 years to the age they were when Nordrassil was destroyed?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
10370
@ Miiyaa -

Established official lore states that Tyrande and Malfurion are 10,000+ years old. It also states in one of the novels (I think was referenced above?) that they are starting to feel the effects of age, so... my personal take on it is that A) Wikis are unreliable source material. Definitely use them, but keep that in the back of your mind. B) There is no official guidance on how the Kaldorei have handled the 10-15 years since the loss of their immortality in regards to aging.

My headcanon is below, take or leave. :)

Night elves, once they began living near the Well, gained immortality due to the magic in the area (Sourced from a Wiki, but it makes sense. Kinda like radiation). The symptoms or signs of aging on the body are A) the effects of experience (many years of laughing/frowning/being in the elements/hard labor, etc) and B) the body's ability to regenerate itself on a cellular level.

If we can accept that immortality simply means that cells continue to replenish themselves with no deterioration in quality, then we have a race that does not physically age, and does not suffer from illnesses related to age... but is still vulnerable to disease and death by violent means.

This means we have a lot of Kaldorei wandering around that have seen a whooole lotta turns around the sun, as it were. Because even though the race has seen a lot of conflict, they haven't seen enough warfare to experience the sort of population decimation as, say, the draenei.

The events in Hyjal were... what? 10 years ago? 15? Less than half a century. So we have these incredibly old elves that are suddenly cut off from the magical radiation that has given them their immortality. So now they are suseptible to aging.

But we have an example of what sort of lifespans they can expect without the Well- the Highbourne that went to the Eastern Kingdoms and became the Blood Elves. The blood elves have been separated from the Well of Eternity for thousands of years, and are still a rather long-lived race (The chart you listed, in fact, seems in line with Blood Elf lifespans, in my opinion).

So- The Kaldorei could feasibly still live another 3-4-500 years before they succumb to age.

I also really like some of the ideas expressed above regarding their development. If you're trying to figure out the age of your Kaldorei, I think it's reasonable to say that 100-150 is young adult, with full maturity (as deemed by the culture in peace times) around 200. That was the culturally accepted norm BEFORE all the recent conflicts. Your elf would reach physical maturity far far earlier, but just as we see signs of physical maturity at young ages in children (menstration in young women, voices changing in males, etc), the young ones are not considered mature by our culture until 18, 21, or some other age accepted by the society.

So an elf may reach physical maturity around 20-25, but not considered an adult- trusted to make decisions without guidance, until far later. I have some ideas bouncing around in my head regarding female Kaldorei tattoos and this system of maturity and aging, but it's not fully baked yet. >.>

All in all... I don't really think there's many wrong answers, unless you're saying your night elf is a mature adult and was born on Teldrassil. But I feel that's a sign of 'new to roleplaying and don't know where to find Lore resources' than anything else.

Edit: Discussed with my far more lore-knowledgeable RP partner, and I was reminded that Nordrassil, once it was formed, was blessed by Ysera, Alexstraza and Nozdormu. Nozdormu's contribution was the gift of immortality to the night elves.

When Teldrassil was formed after Nordrassil's destruction, Nozdormu refused to bless it again- it only received blessings from Alex and Ysera.

Now that Nordrassil has been replenished... it is the thought that Nozdormu lacks the power to bless it again - Which makes sense if you consider that it was reformed after the Cataclsym, and once Deathwing was dealt with, the dragon aspects were stripped of much of their power.

So I guess that answers the question of whether they regained their immortality. :(
Edited by Sihai on 4/26/2013 10:57 AM PDT
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