Durumu Maze Improvements – 4/9

90 Draenei Hunter
7405


Again, just change the Eyesore to something like fel fire green and you'd be good.


No, it was an issue for a lot of players. Just because it wasn't for you doesn't mean it wasn't.


What was an issue? That players couldn't see the maze safe areas or that they couldn't stay in them? Everyone I've seen and talk to who had a problem with this (and me too) didnt have an issue with staying in the safe area, we couldn't SEE it. The distinction between eyesore and safe areas wasn't apparent because of the low contrast between Eyesore and floor, esp on some graphics settings. Changing the eyesore to something like fel green would make it far more apparent where the Eyesore stuff is. At that point, finding and staying in the safe area becomes a L2P issue and it's fine for a mechanic to kill you. It's not fine for a mechanic to kill you because you can't see it though.
Edited by Clevspet on 4/10/2013 2:55 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
10560
Running around the edge is obviously going to be harder than running closer to the boss, and it's hard to make the beam move even slower on the very outside without completely trivializing it for the inner paths. It's basic geometry (stay in school, kids!). Just stay in the path close to the boss or the middle path.

Honestly, the mechanic was pretty easy once you understood where the initial safe zones would be, but I guess your average LFR-skilled "raider" strikes again with their constant need for 502 loot.
Edited by Pennoyer on 4/10/2013 2:57 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
It does seem to be buggy. We did the LFR version as a partial guild group last night. The first time we got to the Disintegration Beam phase, it was worse than normal mode. The safe zones stopped drawing in halfway through the phase. The 10 of us who were used to doing the fight on normal mode popped cooldowns and survived, but all of the pugs and most of the rest of the guildies who had only done the fight on LFR once (last week) died horribly. We wiped and pulled again, and the second time, the edges of the maze were much more clearly defined and the fog cleared soon enough that we could actually see it. I'm guessing the second one was the intended change, but the glitchy first pull was a problem. It needs to be clear where it's safe to stand.

I also agree with what some people have said that the beam moves too quickly now. In our 10-man, I Stampeding Roar for the healers in the outer safe zone, giving them a nice cushion ahead of the advancing beam, but I think expecting that from LFR is asking a lot (I was on my warlock, so I couldn't, obviously).

Lastly, I still don't like maze graphic. Having the edges of the maze be more sharply defined is a good start, but the shroud is still the same color as the maze. It was annoying enough when we were learning it on normal mode, but in LFR, it's just painful.
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90 Gnome Warlock
13490


No, it was an issue for a lot of players. Just because it wasn't for you doesn't mean it wasn't.


What was an issue? That players couldn't see the maze safe areas or that they couldn't stay in them? Everyone I've seen and talk to who had a problem with this (and me too) didnt have an issue with staying in the safe area, we couldn't SEE it. The distinction between eyesore and safe areas wasn't apparent because of the low contrast between Eyesore and floor, esp on some graphics settings. Changing the eyesore to something like fel green would make it far more apparent where the Eyesore stuff is. At that point, finding and staying in the safe area becomes a L2P issue and it's fine for a mechanic to kill you. It's not fine for a mechanic to kill you because you can't see it though.


A lot of people couldn't see the safe zone. It was due to the height of the smoke, the weird behavior the smoke had (fading in and out, even in the non safe zones), etc.

Depending on graphics settings and even more importantly, your graphics card, it could literally be impossible to see the safe zone.

I had to /follow someone to stay alive because honestly, I could not see the safe zone. I can now without issue.

As I said on the last page: The beam needs to be slowed down. At least in LFR. Expecting, as someone pointed out, a druid to Stampeding Roar for the ranged is not realistic in LFR. Very few ranged classes have a speed boost without a negative side effect or a long cooldown. Without a speed boost, the beam WILL catch up to ranged.
Edited by Bitsi on 4/10/2013 2:59 PM PDT
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90 Orc Mage
16115
Excuse me. It's not that it gives the "illusion" it will reach it. IT DOES REACH YOU. Unless you're in the MELEE safe zone, you WILL die without a speed boost of some sort. Plain and Simple. The melee safe zone is fine as there's less room needed to run to get further around Durumu.

From the ranged safe zone, you can and WILL die if you do not have a speed booster. And until you make Burning Rush baseline for all warlocks or remove the health penalty, give mages Blazing speed baseline or remove the cooldown, remove the dazing/cancelling if glyphed aspect in aspect of the cheetah for hunters, etc. you cannot make it so being AT RANGED as a RANGED DPS WILL Kill you. It's ridiculous.

Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously. I was in a LFR earlier where every single healer died because the beams reached them WHILE THEY WERE RUNNING THE ENTIRE TIME. Why? Because they were in the ranged safe zone. That is NOT acceptable. Why even have a ranged safe zone if it kills anyone running in it before the beam is done?

Good job, you guys fixed the maze issue and caused a completely new one: PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE MECHANICS OF THE FIGHT.

Either change the beam movement in LFR difficulty, or give every single class a speed boost. And no one say we can run in the melee zone. The ranged zone exists for ranged players. If they did not want us to run it, it would not exist. It does. By telling me to run in the melee zone, then why doesn't the tank pull him while standing over the dropping ledge? Why doesn't the melee DPS the boss from ranged using Throw? Why doesn't the mage DPS him from melee range with melee hits? Because they're not supposed to. Just like we're not supposed to use the melee zone, we're supposed to use the ranged one. Also: Please tell me how it's easy to see a safe zone with 25 people crowding a very tiny melee path? I can barely see it with the 8-10 melee we usually have.


Dude, he just got through saying it was going to be changed? Why are you freaking out now?

Also, you're a Warlock. You have Burning Rush.
Edited by Donnicton on 4/10/2013 3:01 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Hunter
7405
Running around the edge is obviously going to be harder than running closer to the boss, and it's hard to make the beam move even slower on the very outside without completely trivializing it for the inner paths. It's basic geometry (stay in school, kids!). Just stay in the path close to the boss or the middle path.

Honestly, the mechanic was pretty easy once you understood where the initial safe zones would be, but I guess your average LFR-skilled "raider" strikes again with their constant need for 502 loot.

Not very bright are you? A mechanic where you die even if you're doing the right thing is broken.

And good luck trying to see the safe area with 25 people and their spell effects all crowded into the melee path. The entire reason there's a ranged path is so that ranged and heals can use that if they need or want to.
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90 Gnome Warlock
13490
Excuse me. It's not that it gives the "illusion" it will reach it. IT DOES REACH YOU. Unless you're in the MELEE safe zone, you WILL die without a speed boost of some sort. Plain and Simple. The melee safe zone is fine as there's less room needed to run to get further around Durumu.

From the ranged safe zone, you can and WILL die if you do not have a speed booster. And until you make Burning Rush baseline for all warlocks or remove the health penalty, give mages Blazing speed baseline or remove the cooldown, remove the dazing/cancelling if glyphed aspect in aspect of the cheetah for hunters, etc. you cannot make it so being AT RANGED as a RANGED DPS WILL Kill you. It's ridiculous.

Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously. I was in a LFR earlier where every single healer died because the beams reached them WHILE THEY WERE RUNNING THE ENTIRE TIME. Why? Because they were in the ranged safe zone. That is NOT acceptable. Why even have a ranged safe zone if it kills anyone running in it before the beam is done?

Good job, you guys fixed the maze issue and caused a completely new one: PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE MECHANICS OF THE FIGHT.

Either change the beam movement in LFR difficulty, or give every single class a speed boost. And no one say we can run in the melee zone. The ranged zone exists for ranged players. If they did not want us to run it, it would not exist. It does. By telling me to run in the melee zone, then why doesn't the tank pull him while standing over the dropping ledge? Why doesn't the melee DPS the boss from ranged using Throw? Why doesn't the mage DPS him from melee range with melee hits? Because they're not supposed to. Just like we're not supposed to use the melee zone, we're supposed to use the ranged one. Also: Please tell me how it's easy to see a safe zone with 25 people crowding a very tiny melee path? I can barely see it with the 8-10 melee we usually have.


Dude, he just got through saying it was going to be changed? Why are you freaking out now?

Also, you're a Warlock. You have Burning Rush.


Which damages me. More than eyesores do. I also have multiple other toons. My hunter can't do it cause Aspect of the Cheetah either dazes me or cancels when I take damage and gets a 4 second cooldown (if I use the glyph).

And yes, I'm well aware of what he said. However, as he never once stated it will kill you, only it "gives the illusion it will," i wanted to make sure they accounted for that, and not just people who are in melee range.
Edited by Bitsi on 4/10/2013 3:05 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Hunter
7405


What was an issue? That players couldn't see the maze safe areas or that they couldn't stay in them? Everyone I've seen and talk to who had a problem with this (and me too) didnt have an issue with staying in the safe area, we couldn't SEE it. The distinction between eyesore and safe areas wasn't apparent because of the low contrast between Eyesore and floor, esp on some graphics settings. Changing the eyesore to something like fel green would make it far more apparent where the Eyesore stuff is. At that point, finding and staying in the safe area becomes a L2P issue and it's fine for a mechanic to kill you. It's not fine for a mechanic to kill you because you can't see it though.


A lot of people couldn't see the safe zone. It was due to the height of the smoke, the weird behavior the smoke had (fading in and out, even in the non safe zones), etc.

Depending on graphics settings and even more importantly, your graphics card, it could literally be impossible to see the safe zone.

I had to /follow someone to stay alive because honestly, I could not see the safe zone. I can now without issue.

You realize you're arguing with someone who agrees that it was a bit broken, right? The problem now is that, yes, it's a bit easier to see, but that by increasing hte fidelity they've screwed up people with lower end machines whose frame rate drops drastically now.

My entire point about altering the color to something like fel green is that it would achieve the same thing - making the safe and eyesore areas apparent - without the downside of increasing the fidelity of the Eyesore effect. My larger point is that it was a crappy art decision to use black-purple smoke in a dark room with a dark floor to outline a maze.
Edited by Clevspet on 4/10/2013 3:06 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Warlock
13490


A lot of people couldn't see the safe zone. It was due to the height of the smoke, the weird behavior the smoke had (fading in and out, even in the non safe zones), etc.

Depending on graphics settings and even more importantly, your graphics card, it could literally be impossible to see the safe zone.

I had to /follow someone to stay alive because honestly, I could not see the safe zone. I can now without issue.

You realize you're arguing with someone who agrees that it was a bit broken, right? The problem now is that, yes, it's a bit easier to see, but that by increasing hte fidelity they've screwed up people with lower end machines whose FPS drops drastically now.

My entire point about altering the color to something like fel green is that it would achievel the same thing - making the safe and eyesore areas apparent - without the downside of increasing the fidelity of the Eyesore effect. My larger point is that it was a crappy art decision to use black-purple smoke in a dark room with a dark floor to outline a maze.


I'm not arguing. You asked why they changed the maze and not the color. I pointed out why. :P Depending on settings/graphics card, it was impossible to see the safe spots. Whatever they did in the hotfixes fixed it.
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90 Draenei Hunter
7405


You realize you're arguing with someone who agrees that it was a bit broken, right? The problem now is that, yes, it's a bit easier to see, but that by increasing hte fidelity they've screwed up people with lower end machines whose FPS drops drastically now.

My entire point about altering the color to something like fel green is that it would achievel the same thing - making the safe and eyesore areas apparent - without the downside of increasing the fidelity of the Eyesore effect. My larger point is that it was a crappy art decision to use black-purple smoke in a dark room with a dark floor to outline a maze.


I'm not arguing. You asked why they changed the maze and not the color. I pointed out why. :P Depending on settings/graphics card, it was impossible to see the safe spots. Whatever they did in the hotfixes fixed it.


Stop argu... oh wait. And yes, it was easier for me to see. But a friend I was playing with died not because he couldn't see it but because his frame rate spiked down. I've seen other people complaining about this so I think it's a case of "if your card can handles this it's better, if not, too bad." I'd rather they simply alter the content's color which would also solve the issue and shouldn't hurt FPS for people on lower end machines.
Edited by Clevspet on 4/10/2013 3:09 PM PDT
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90 Troll Rogue
11835
Excuse me. It's not that it gives the "illusion" it will reach it. IT DOES REACH YOU. Unless you're in the MELEE safe zone, you WILL die without a speed boost of some sort. Plain and Simple. The melee safe zone is fine as there's less room needed to run to get further around Durumu.

From the ranged safe zone, you can and WILL die if you do not have a speed booster. And until you make Burning Rush baseline for all warlocks or remove the health penalty, give mages Blazing speed baseline or remove the cooldown, remove the dazing/cancelling if glyphed aspect in aspect of the cheetah for hunters, etc. you cannot make it so being AT RANGED as a RANGED DPS WILL Kill you. It's ridiculous.

Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously. I was in a LFR earlier where every single healer died because the beams reached them WHILE THEY WERE RUNNING THE ENTIRE TIME. Why? Because they were in the ranged safe zone. That is NOT acceptable. Why even have a ranged safe zone if it kills anyone running in it before the beam is done?

Good job, you guys fixed the maze issue and caused a completely new one: PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE MECHANICS OF THE FIGHT.

Either change the beam movement in LFR difficulty, or give every single class a speed boost. And no one say we can run in the melee zone. The ranged zone exists for ranged players. If they did not want us to run it, it would not exist. It does. By telling me to run in the melee zone, then why doesn't the tank pull him while standing over the dropping ledge? Why doesn't the melee DPS the boss from ranged using Throw? Why doesn't the mage DPS him from melee range with melee hits? Because they're not supposed to. Just like we're not supposed to use the melee zone, we're supposed to use the ranged one. Also: Please tell me how it's easy to see a safe zone with 25 people crowding a very tiny melee path? I can barely see it with the 8-10 melee we usually have.


Yes, let's completely ruin PvP by giving ranged more escaped/speed boosts (allowing them to kite indefinitely) because of ONE PvE encounter that's still being tweaked. In your own words, "Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously."
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90 Gnome Warlock
13490
Excuse me. It's not that it gives the "illusion" it will reach it. IT DOES REACH YOU. Unless you're in the MELEE safe zone, you WILL die without a speed boost of some sort. Plain and Simple. The melee safe zone is fine as there's less room needed to run to get further around Durumu.

From the ranged safe zone, you can and WILL die if you do not have a speed booster. And until you make Burning Rush baseline for all warlocks or remove the health penalty, give mages Blazing speed baseline or remove the cooldown, remove the dazing/cancelling if glyphed aspect in aspect of the cheetah for hunters, etc. you cannot make it so being AT RANGED as a RANGED DPS WILL Kill you. It's ridiculous.

Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously. I was in a LFR earlier where every single healer died because the beams reached them WHILE THEY WERE RUNNING THE ENTIRE TIME. Why? Because they were in the ranged safe zone. That is NOT acceptable. Why even have a ranged safe zone if it kills anyone running in it before the beam is done?

Good job, you guys fixed the maze issue and caused a completely new one: PEOPLE DIE BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE MECHANICS OF THE FIGHT.

Either change the beam movement in LFR difficulty, or give every single class a speed boost. And no one say we can run in the melee zone. The ranged zone exists for ranged players. If they did not want us to run it, it would not exist. It does. By telling me to run in the melee zone, then why doesn't the tank pull him while standing over the dropping ledge? Why doesn't the melee DPS the boss from ranged using Throw? Why doesn't the mage DPS him from melee range with melee hits? Because they're not supposed to. Just like we're not supposed to use the melee zone, we're supposed to use the ranged one. Also: Please tell me how it's easy to see a safe zone with 25 people crowding a very tiny melee path? I can barely see it with the 8-10 melee we usually have.


Yes, let's completely ruin PvP by giving ranged more escaped/speed boosts (allowing them to kite indefinitely) because of ONE PvE encounter that's still being tweaked. In your own words, "Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously."


You clearly need to learn how to understand sarcasm. I was telling him to slow down the beam on LFR, otherwise they'd have to do something ridiculous.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
16340
To address that concern, we are making another adjustment today, which will cause the death ray to dissipate a few seconds earlier at the end of the maze.


Lovely.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
11170
We have noted, however, that at the very end of the maze sequence, it can now feel like the fast-approaching death ray is going to reach you, making it feel like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. To address that concern, we are making another adjustment today, which will cause the death ray to dissipate a few seconds earlier at the end of the maze.

Assuming by "it can feel like the ... death ray is going to reach you," you only mean "it feels like" and not "it will," why change it? I'd imagine the cries of "Omigosh! We're gonna wipe! We're gonna wipe! We're gonna... Wait, we didn't wipe?" would be rather amusing. :P

Of course, I suppose it could also lead people to panic and, while panicking, do crazy things like, say, running into the death beam, but...

I guess I answered my own question there.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4850
Why would any sane person want to move closer to a death beam?!


but... but... I <3 happy fun death beam... j/k... haven't seen this maze and probly won't for a while yet... :)
Edited by Vonsmitey on 4/10/2013 4:18 PM PDT
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90 Troll Rogue
11835


Yes, let's completely ruin PvP by giving ranged more escaped/speed boosts (allowing them to kite indefinitely) because of ONE PvE encounter that's still being tweaked. In your own words, "Do you guys even think things through before you make changes like that? Seriously."


You clearly need to learn how to understand sarcasm. I was telling him to slow down the beam on LFR, otherwise they'd have to do something ridiculous.


First of all, you can hardly detect sarcasm through text, with no vocal intonation or body alnguage as a clue. Second I think you're full of crap and are just crying sarcasm in an attmept to not look like a moron.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14890
I find it interesting to see how many are still responding to this in such a way that its obviously still not working properly either from a visibility standpoint and/or path generation since Bashiok's post 2 hours ago and we haven't heard anything. My raid starts in 40 mins if we wipe repeatedly due to a broken mechanic on something we had finally gotten down pat the previous week I just might be a little agitated.
Edited by Gôulet on 4/10/2013 4:25 PM PDT
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Community Manager
04/10/2013 02:43 PMPosted by Bitsi
Unless you're in the MELEE safe zone, you WILL die without a speed boost of some sort.


Yeah, we noticed that, and a fix went out at about 1pm today. You should be all good in the ranged track now.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14890
Yeah, we noticed that, and a fix went out at about 1pm today. You should be all good in the ranged track now.


Ok great! Now what about the maze sometimes not generating at all?
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90 Tauren Death Knight
0
<3 u Bashiok
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