Living sand threat mechanic (help)

Can someone please explain how threat is generated for the living sands in the Council of Elders fight in Throne of Thunder. We can not seem to keep them off our healers.

We've tried symbiosis (ice block) for the druid, whipping threat by clicking lock portal, having healers not healing at all, having healers stand at the tank, hunters misdirect, and none of it seems to drop threat. In many cases the adds will temporarily go to tank and then when the threat mechanic wears off the adds go back to the tank. In other cases the adds ignore the threat gen and taunts by tank and still go to healer.

An explanation of the threat mechanic would really be helpful in creating a mechanic to survive this phase.
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90 Human Warrior
19410
Sul should never become possessed. If you DPS him first off the pull, he will be the last of the four in the rotation to become possessed, as Gara'jal will always possess the highest-health Council member that hasn't yet been possessed in the rotation yet.

The objective of the fight is not just to knock Gara'jal out of the possessed Council member; you can wait until about 50 energy to swap and burn. Continue DPSing Sul until he dies or the next Council member reaches 50 energy.
Edited by Thecheat on 4/8/2013 10:51 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
13890
They seem to me to just have normal threat mechanics. Our warrior tank used Mocking Banner to pick them all up and then DPS AOE'd them down quickly.

04/08/2013 10:51 PMPosted by Thecheat
Sul should never become possessed.


Some groups might not have high enough DPS for this. Mine, we had 2 Sul empowerments on first kill (although he died before sandstorm in the second empowerment).
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
DND/Bloodboil got them on me no problem.
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
They have regular threat mechanics.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
Option 1:

Kill him before empowerment.

no, its probably not gear stopping you

Option 2:

Lolmockingbanner
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90 Human Paladin
16345
They are regular threat mechanic. Have raid stack on Sul's tank during sandstorm and all adds will run to tank.. spread out after tank gets all the adds... make sure Sul's sandbolt when raid is stacking is interrupted...
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90 Troll Rogue
20300
The objective of the fight is not just to knock Gara'jal out of the possessed Council member; you can wait until about 50 energy to swap and burn. Continue DPSing Sul until he dies or the next Council member reaches 50 energy.

Depending on gear/comp that may not be feasible. On alts in the 490-500 gear range we killed council last night and most of the time we were riding the dark power timer pretty closely. We had enough incidental damage to get sul to 25% when he was possessed but we still got 2 sand storms. These are alts and probably a bit undergeared for ToT but I don't think presenting kill sul before empower as the correct strategy is accurate.
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90 Tauren Druid
10625
Healers go stand on the tanks when sandstorm comes out. Pally BOPs healer with highest threat. Pop a raid CD. Once they start going down and leaving traps, everybody moves.
Edited by Moggsy on 4/9/2013 2:50 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Shaman
5825
Sul should never become possessed. If you DPS him first off the pull, he will be the last of the four in the rotation to become possessed, as Gara'jal will always possess the highest-health Council member that hasn't yet been possessed in the rotation yet.

The objective of the fight is not just to knock Gara'jal out of the possessed Council member; you can wait until about 50 energy to swap and burn. Continue DPSing Sul until he dies or the next Council member reaches 50 energy.


Ok so our comp is boasting a druid and pally tank. Like the OP we too could not persuade the adds to attack the tank regardless of if we stacked or what, and it was GG every time.

So we changed tactics to the one above and had council down in 3 tries (first one was adjusting, 2nd we had people dc and 3rd was the kill).

We did however make a slight adjustment, because of kazra'jin's deflect we decided to wait till 20 before targeting him.

Mal'akk - 50
Kazra'jin - 20
Priestess - 50

Sul was down before the 3rd boss was possessed. We hero'd off the bat along with stormlash (ftw) and nuked the living daylights out of Sul. I think by the time Mal'akk was possessed (always the first) Sul was at around 40% health.

But yup, it worked fine and thanks for the heads up.

To others out there, although the threat mechanic may work as intended, I definitely see there being a problem with Druids and Paladins although I dont know why they have a problem.
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90 Worgen Druid
13890
04/12/2013 03:45 AMPosted by Thedøc
We did however make a slight adjustment, because of kazra'jin's deflect we decided to wait till 20 before targeting him.


uh, what?
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90 Human Warrior
19410
We did however make a slight adjustment, because of kazra'jin's deflect we decided to wait till 20 before targeting him.


uh, what?


Just sounds like they wanted to spread the damage reflect over a longer period of time as opposed to attempting to burst him down quickly and risk people killing themselves. On normal, however, the damage really isn't that bad as long as Sul's Sand Bolts are being interrupted until he dies. We personally just put ranged on Kazra'jin as soon as he gets possessed and post melee on either Sul or whatever other Council member is highest if Sul's already dead.

Anyways, there's about three and a half to four and a half minutes or so to burn Sul while the other three Council members are possessed, depending on how closely you push their Dark Power to max. If one's group is having trouble with this in 490 gear (as the minimum stated above), then some people aren't pulling their weight. Heroism and anything else you can drop or use off the pull (Stormlash, Skull Banner, Shattering Throw) makes this strategy pretty easy.
Edited by Thecheat on 4/13/2013 6:00 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
13890
If you've got enough DPS that you can afford to not have everybody on the empowered boss as soon as it empowers, then the fight is straightforward, and this discussion reminds me of a threat on ElitistJerks mage forum where they had an argument about which spell you should cast to maximise damage if the boss had under 3 seconds until it was dead..
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
If you've got enough DPS that you can afford to not have everybody on the empowered boss as soon as it empowers, then the fight is straightforward, and this discussion reminds me of a threat on ElitistJerks mage forum where they had an argument about which spell you should cast to maximise damage if the boss had under 3 seconds until it was dead..


With how many sub 100k hp wipes I've had, that could be a kill vs a wipe.

If it's an add fight, like Horridon with dozens of sub 3second to lives, that could add up to a huge difference.
Edited by Azane on 4/14/2013 2:05 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10380
Kill him before he empowers. No excuses. Just do it.

(If your DPS is borderline, it's totally worth taking a few ticks of Dark Power just to make sure Sul dies.)
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90 Tauren Druid
0
To others out there, although the threat mechanic may work as intended, I definitely see there being a problem with Druids and Paladins although I dont know why they have a problem.

There is a "problem" with paladin tanks: They generate too much healing threat and often will have the adds targeting them when sandstorm goes out instead of healers.
Living Sand spawn with the quicksand pools, they just aren't out and about attacking before sandstorm. Healers are still building threat on them all fight. If you're not going to burn Sul (we didn't for our first few kills, sandstorm phases are jokes once the adds are on a tank and he can drag the pools away from the raid, hell they make the fight easier afterwards since the pools are out of the way), the next best thing is to burn the empowered adds quickly to limit the # of adds/threat lead healers have.
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