Some HINTS about WOW economy/bad populations

90 Worgen Death Knight
6765
this want to be a feedback post. English is not my native langauge but i am trying to do some points, simples and clear. This text is the point of view of an old player with accounts in europe and us regions.

My principal interest is the economy in the game. Second to that, do 5 mans with my wife and a friend. This expansion i have very very very much work to do in the real life (40 years old business owner with 4 LLC ), and i have not yet time to level one any of my 85 to 90.

Anyway i enter in short bursts of time, for business because i love the realities of economies in diff realms. I am an active AH user, more than other thing, for my real life schedule.

A month or two ago, i farm the mats in malfurion horde and pay to get the black panther done. Then others begin to be dupe the black panther and my investment was halfed.

Ok.

Then i make a deal and change that for a guild level 25 in other realms, as a method of hold my investment. ( By the way i am now the guildmaster of 30 guilds, 6 of them 25, and have three accounts active).

Because the "shared account" mounts, my former moneymakers, vial of the sands and choppers sell less often. In all the guilds i have and in all the guilds i am currently now, ppl as dropping as flies or inactive of friends told me the game is losing subscribers, or they are not logging now.

Well, this is not only in US realms.

i have a dormant account in EUROPE, because my cousin go to spain some times ago and i purchase to play with him. I made some friends there, and recently i get a warrior 80 for scroll of ressurection. Some of the friends in europe told me the community bad behiavor and scammers are rising.

I make a deal with friends and trade a guild in US for one in EUROPE, lvl 25 off course.

I begin to make deals with ppl in europe to get the stay classy acheivements, frostmane server. two of the ppl make threats to call the cops when i explain they need to join my guild for the 2000g tip. ... as example.

And .. i begin to farm mithril and thorium. i do around 100k without much problem.

Then, the guild master of a relatively big guild in frostmane, a guild in i was a member, scammed me 80k , and for the circunstance Blizzard dont help much. My fault for very good reasons.

I begin to see in frostmane and outland announces of guild lvl 25 for 25k. I am now the owner of two (trying to sell one), and begin to get lowball offers insults and similar.

Some ppl trying to purchase my guild 25 for 5k ? my vial of sands for 12 ? what the hell ?

Then i begin to do a comparation of the quality of my guilds in US region and begin a selling spree.

Must ppl in us region want to pay 15k for a guild with 8 tabs and 900 points in acheivements. Other 9k for the choppers.

At the moment i see a very dark future for casual guilds. example this guild in ghostlands was a bargain some months ago for 25k (the old owner want a panther) and i put the tabs, change names et all. Others of my guilds, purchased in cataclysm, was purchased and sold at 110-140k, sometimes i pay 5 vial of sands for a guild with now some ppl only want to pay 20k for.

Is not an investment problem. I am happy of the state of my trade business and my bank guilds drop a substantial part of their value .

The problem i see is, the in game community is in SERIOUS ATTITUDE PROBLEMS. Many ppl trying to offer below the mats for choppers / vial fo sands. And try to lowball for a guild lvl 25. i get offers of 10k frequently for a guild with 6 tabs, legs and 600~ acheivements.

My current plan , as a player, is sell some guilds and cancel one of my accounts in europe and one of the accounts in US.

I bet you are going to other anual pass, giving the pegasus mounts and beta of hearthstone. If pegasus can be purchased in the blizzard store or in anual pass, i get one. But is a no no the option to get an anaual pass for my wife, or my friend.

We are thinking in return to Diablo II to closed games. More difficult. Similar economies and micromganament. But, the facts make me think the communities are now rotten and the economies are in the same way.

Suggestions :

1 ) Make the ppl who left a guild, "damage the guild" progress. As example, if a ppl do 100k worth of experience and he leave the guild, (not for erasing the toon ) guild must loss 50% of experience of the gained for that player.

2 ) cut a little the quest xp gained for guilds. is too cheap for some ppl.

3 ) make cross realms auctions and guilds

4 ) do something wioth the black panthers dupe

5 ) if you make new panthers / vial of sands / choppers, dont do that account shared.
Edited by Leonidas on 4/18/2013 8:31 AM PDT
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35 Human Hunter
9185
It's all Merkel's fault!
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6765
No,the problem is tangible in the ppl quality in trades, and i can see ppl dont loggin in a hundred of lvl 25 guilds or more.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
8220
5 ) if you make new panthers / vial of sands / choppers, dont do that account shared.


No.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6765
before shared i sold two vial of sands at week. Now, one each month.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6825
Selling guilds is one of the dumbest things to come out of the guild leveling system.

If anything should be outlawed, that's it right there.
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90 Tauren Druid
13665
I know a little bit about economics. Economics in a video has nothing to do with reality. You have no control or forecast over inflation, time value of money, riskiness of investment, availability of capital, liquidity - all important factors that determine the future value of goods and currency. Then you completely changed topics and talked about player attitudes. Finally, you changed topics again and talked about things like guild xp.

I'm not gonna comment on the video-game related stuff but if you are truly an educated business owner with multiple limited liability corporations, you must know the volatility of a controlled market, especially one with no oversight and an economy not subject to the most basic assumptions about the need for participants to make money.
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46 Human Paladin
8375
the diminished economy you are facing isnt a mystery. blizz did it this expac for a reason.

blizz has done a lot to slow down the rate at which the rich make gold and they have added more than a few genuine gold sinks.

although it hurt my gameplay (because making tons on the AH was fun for me) i do think the game is better off with these changes.

there are other changes that i think blizz has made which really hurt the game but this isnt the place for it.

good luck friend
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90 Gnome Mage
14010
Make it so people can't buy and sell guilds like commodities.
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46 Human Paladin
8375
Make it so people can't buy and sell guilds like commodities.


guild leveling was a terrible idea.
guild perks a worse idea.
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86 Tauren Warrior
2035
I am Leonidas , OP here with another account. I agree with all. Semexy, i am a business owner and know the problems of the real / irreal things. But the problem is not if the market is volatile of not. ( i assume the market loss of that investment , and i am in selling spree for cut losses , but some guilds are better return if hold i am cleaning my mind of not needed guilds more than cut losses).

The time needed to up a guild give us "some value" and then, with the bug of september 2012 (around 15 days of exploits in leveling ) the guilds begin to loss value and i accept. Anyway i got the perks for my friend wife and me.

The problem i see is, ppl making insults in trade chat are more "normal" in these late months. If u gain guild perk for TIME you stay in that guild , will be better, but i want make two observations :

1 ) The economy in wow is polluted. Normally i do around 30% trades in trade chat, now i do 95% in AH. The sense of guild / realm is erasign quickly and without accountability, we have too much jerks

2 ) Tradeable guilds are lossing value day to day because the community have not much weight. Making "losses" of xp maybe get some "value" or "community sense" to the guilds and restore a little the communities/ guilds/ realms.

@Currency
And i agree leveling guilds was an awful idea, and the icreased rate we see from quests, is not helping, is hurting and killing some VITAL for the game.
Edited by Darakan on 4/18/2013 8:19 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
6825
Leonidas/Darakan How can you not see that what you make money on, the treatment of guilds as a tradable commodity, is a large contributing factor the the downfall of the community?
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86 Tauren Warrior
2035
@alkane I see that and do around a million g with that but dont was my main income in game. I am in the bags / living steel market and do around 30k daily without much problem.

I agree the downafall of the community is a FACT, but i think CRZ and duping have a part. But the jerks / harrasment / insults are not part of the same, maybe a hint, but no the cause.

i think the problem now is... few player playing , is less currency in circulation. Then, for some of them, maybe 9k for a chopper or 12k for a vial sands is ok, but are far below costs of make that. Then, because the ppl have les interest and play less, they have less money, ane less money in the realms economy.

Now, a 26k guild in Blackrock horde may be sense, but is not sense to try to offer 20 k for it (i receive an offer of a horde progression guild) payed in two weeks.

Is not sense.

I write the text for say to the devs / readers, i see this week, for my playing times (much Real life lately remember ?) a dangerous attitude problem, less players, and the community in whole is negative affected by the guilds selling business. I got a million last year with that, my losses now are around 160k at max. Dont matter, and if hold the guilds dont loss anything.

My statements was a Hint to the problem, i am not saying are the origin of the problems.
Edited by Darakan on 4/18/2013 8:29 AM PDT
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35 Human Hunter
9185
If you are asking for a bailout, you are probably not too big to fail :)
Pretty sure everybody enjoys their shared mounts too much.
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37 Draenei Priest
7935
OP - Just take a step back and realize that, in a trading system, things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. So, if you think a level 25 guild is worth 20K, but people are only offering 5K, guess what? That's right, it's only worth 5K.

BTW: I would assume that the price of a level 25 guild has gone through the floor since they made every quest give 60K guild XP.

Cheers.
Edited by Shadowbrit on 4/18/2013 9:30 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6765
@shadowbrit,

Iam not in USA, if that matter for the examples.

Any good trader in real life or not, know the low ball technique. But if i get an offer of 20k USD for my SUV ( 60k cost ) used in work, for THAT buyer 20K is the price, but i can put the SUV as a deposit for a new SUV/house and count as 40k.

If in the real life something come to my inherited house and (for sale announcment already) and offer 3k i laugh, because TWO professional appraiser say me the house value is 39500 and 41500K. I pay 200 USD for each appraisers.

Anyway, if the cost of VENDOR MATS vial of sands is 26900 (aprox) and 11250 for the chopper ones, plus the farmed, because a lowballer said the value are 12k and 9k that is true for him, but not in reality.

Something rotten with the guild system currently now.
Edited by Leonidas on 4/18/2013 10:24 AM PDT
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37 Draenei Priest
7935
Fair enough Leonidas. I'm talking specifically about Guild price, and realize that offers less than mat prices on mounts can be considered 'lowball'. But you also said that 5K for a guild was lowball, when it has no real value. SUVs and Houses are not good analogies for Guilds at all, as Guilds have no true value. A better analogy would be the value of a WoW TCG Loot card. It's only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

BTW: Selling Guilds just seems wrong, and it really wasn't the intent for Guilds, was it.

Cheers.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
16070
I've purchased 13 of my 14 guild banks. I don't think being able to buy an unused/dead guild is a bad thing. Of course, the highest level of any of them was 3. I wouldn't want a level 25 guild. I don't want drama, I want storage.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6765
@shadowbit

Yes, but the price 5k of the tabs for a sizx tabs, are below the price of storage of a level 1 iwith five tabs.

@Higeki

I play in many realms for economy. The reason of lvl 25 guilds i have are because i was founder of many of them with my wifre, friend and coworkers/ employees. Other were needed 5 for the seventh tab, and of my 30~ banks i remember now a lvl 9 and a level 16 leveled without the quest XP bonus (ragefire chasm 7 times in the week with twinks 21 stopped). I try to do at least level 2 for transfer to other realms.

Currently i do a computer script/program to compare acheivements of guilds and trying to gfet the better guilds in quality/sentimental reasons and sold the others .

And , by the way, i am owner of near all the sparta/leonidas combos and dragon army guilds. Sometimes i put a guild of other realms and use the same name.
Edited by Leonidas on 4/18/2013 11:45 AM PDT
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Guilds were never meant to be sold. I think that is one of your main problems here.
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