Subterfuge



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!


Before the nerf we've seen on stream Pikaboo do 220k eviscerate crit on a 69% resilienced target.

Just saying.


I havent seen it sry.
Just saying.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10875


It holds far more validity than anything you've said, which has been literally nothing.


not really heh.


Sorry but a bunch of "NO U's" to every person, even rogues, that have proven their credibility in the form of an intelligent debate shows otherwise.
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64 Orc Rogue
7865


Before the nerf we've seen on stream Pikaboo do 220k eviscerate crit on a 69% resilienced target.

Just saying.


I havent seen it sry.
Just saying.


Then watch his stream? He's better than you, you could learn a lot from him.
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90 Undead Rogue
4445
04/18/2013 09:13 PMPosted by Outplayedlol
Subterfuge is no more "brain dead" than anything else in the game. It's just really good with the extra 20 energy.
..???


It's a really strong ability. Brain Dead implies that it's a simple, mindless mechanic. It isn't particularly so. "Brain Dead" things in wow would be one shot macros. There are a variety of things you can do with the Subterfuge window, especially with the larger resource pool.

If you're saying it coupled with Cloak & Dagger is too good and in need of a nerf, I agree.
Edited by Crookston on 4/20/2013 10:04 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
10875


You're delusional if you think the reason rogues were non-existant in season 12 was because "they weren't OP anymore"


Pretty sure countless threads of rogue QQ and not owning anyone within a week's time of MoP's launch says otherwise. "why am I squishy?" "bring back crit % modifiers!" "it's not fair that our damage isn't as high as it was back in cata!" and that's only just to name a few.[/quote]


You're on the forums, so you're naturally going to pat yourself on the back for things that you didn't accomplish. But you weren't owning rogues in s12 because you were "awesomesauce" and the playing field was "even".


Whatever makes you feel better. I never said I was awesomesauce, but hey, thanks for putting words in my mouth. I did better than what you'd like to believe. Nor was it because they were broken underpowered.

If you had any sense about you, you'd know that blizzard knee-jerk buffs and nerfs almost every season.


Yup, they sure do. You should be able to figure out why the reaction we saw with 5.2 then in that case.
Edited by Triztala on 4/19/2013 8:35 PM PDT
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I havent seen it sry.
Just saying.


Then watch his stream? He's better than you, you could learn a lot from him.


nope. didnt happen.
keep making up numbers tho.
Edited by Kalopsia on 4/19/2013 8:59 PM PDT
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not really heh.


Sorry but a bunch of "NO U's" to every person, even rogues, that have proven their credibility in the form of an intelligent debate shows otherwise.


hmm not really.
sry to say.
heh
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90 Undead Rogue
8475


Pretty sure countless threads of rogue QQ and not owning anyone within a week's time of MoP's launch says otherwise. "why am I squishy?" "bring back crit % modifiers!" "it's not fair that our damage isn't as high as it was back in cata!" and that's only just to name a few.


I'm sorry, I'm hung up that you're using QQ threads as reason to validate something.

If that's the case, both rogues and hunters would be on the ground, foaming at the mouth after having their head's bashed in from the nerf bat.

Rogues were weak season 12. I honestly don't believe you're trying to argue that.
Here comes the reply completely contradicting everything you just said.

Ill type it out for you.

"Blah Blah blah. Now, they weren't exactly doing well, but blah blah blah. A GOOD rogue would be able to do well. Blah blah blah, it doesnt matter that all the good rogues openly said that the class is too weak, and that its far easier just to roll a class that doesnt get one shotted. Blah blah blah, reckful something something even though he rerolled warrior.

blah blah blah."
Edited by Stunshine on 4/19/2013 11:17 PM PDT
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Rogues are one of those classes where people complain about them but when you actually play a rogue it's not as faceroll as you thought


this.
ex-warrior here.
loooooots of things going on as a rogue at all times.

i agree, subterfuge really needs to go. braindead mechanic


Really? with all the AOE in this game? You really think thats fair?
Edited by Badjuicy on 4/20/2013 12:18 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
4650
lol being a hard class doesnt mean a class is not strong
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lol being a hard class doesnt mean a class is not strong


wrong.
class is not strong, ppl who are playing it are better players than ppl playing other classes.
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100 Night Elf Druid
4650
Really? with all the AOE in this game? You really think thats fair?


how did rogues manage b4 mop....

class is not strong, ppl who are playing it are better players than ppl playing other classes.


you implyin rogue is weak?

ok clearly feral was just outplaying everyone last season nothing to do with instant clones and unpeelable mongo dmg
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04/20/2013 12:17 AMPosted by Badjuicy
i agree, subterfuge really needs to go. braindead mechanic


Really? with all the AOE in this game? You really think thats fair?
you act like people trying to aoe rogues out of stealth is something that was introduced in mop lol
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64 Orc Rogue
7865
04/20/2013 11:11 AMPosted by Outplayedlol


Really? with all the AOE in this game? You really think thats fair?
you act like people trying to aoe rogues out of stealth is something that was introduced in mop lol


You act like rogue takes any skill to play.
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90 Orc Shaman
6715
04/20/2013 12:22 AMPosted by Kalopsia
lol being a hard class doesnt mean a class is not strong


wrong.
class is not strong, ppl who are playing it are better players than ppl playing other classes.


I had a good laugh.
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90 Undead Rogue
6410
you act like people trying to aoe rogues out of stealth is something that was introduced in mop lol


You act like rogue takes any skill to play.

And your name fits quite well with your drama stirring attitude.

Please, do tell what classes take "skill", as well as how you define the word "skill".

I'm fascinated to hear it.
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90 Undead Rogue
8475


Really? with all the AOE in this game? You really think thats fair?
you act like people trying to aoe rogues out of stealth is something that was introduced in mop lol


Halo and 500% rain of fire along with all the other BS aoe abilities that drag people out of stealth we're introduced in MoP.

Come to think of it, quite a few classes ALL got AOE abilities in some form or another. I'm not saying they're all useful for just that, but:

Halo was bad enough that they nerfed the ability for it to get rogues out of stealth?
Now I barely see spriests using it.

EDIT: Point is, it became alot easier to get stealthies out. AND several more classes suddenly got some sort of stealth ability.

If your complaining that rogues attained another way to stay in stealth, I think you're argument should be pointed at blizzard. Take away the AOE, make it moderately difficult to AOE the entire map,

then take away subterfuge, take away shroud of shadows. I think those are two abilities that only exist because of the arms race between stealth and stealth breakers.
Edited by Stunshine on 4/20/2013 12:11 PM PDT
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you act like people trying to aoe rogues out of stealth is something that was introduced in mop lol


You act like rogue takes any skill to play.
how so? i fully admitted that subterfuge is a braindead mechanic, and i dont agree with any of the rogues defending it
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90 Pandaren Shaman
17885
04/19/2013 06:59 AMPosted by Stunshine
I find it funny that last patch we had Subterfuge and no complaints.


No one complained about anything about rogues last patch.

Rogues didn't exist last patch.


Rogues always scale terrifically. Of course the first season they'll be ignored. Look at Cata for the most recent example. S9 ignored S10 a few fusses S11 OMG NERF NOW. That 130% agility is amazing, especially in the last season of an xpac when stat inflation is at its greatest.

If I could put up one real complaint about this game, it would be about how scaling is handled every patch and expansion. We have classes with low base and wonderful scaling begging for buffs the first tier, they get them the second, then a hard swing from the nerfbat the third. Then we have the opposite (usually hunters) of great starting base damage, and then absolutely no scaling. They're usually propped up by a few buffs to SV for PvE viability (or in wrath ArPen for MM).

If they could just nail scaling so we don't repeat every expansion, things would be wonderful.
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90 Human Warlock
6050
The fact that it seems like every class besides warlocks have access to a stealth ability is rediculous. It makes the "OPEN HARD AS !@#$" comps even more braindead than they already are. Hell if you removed subterfuge and stealth from hunters and mages, I would actually be able to counter an opener as affliction.
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