Sandstorm seriously bugged - FYI

27 Pandaren Warrior
6835
Hopefully Aquatic pets are on that list too. :)


Dragonkin too. Atm, it's just a ghetto version of the Beast racial. :c
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90 Night Elf Druid
17085
The amount of time spent balancing pet battles is sickening. Be happy with what you have IMO.


Don't troll these forums and try to post constructively.

Now back to topic I'm glad the elemental passive is being given a second look. Personally I think weather positive effects should always be active for elementals while ignoring negative ones.
Edited by Nightsbane on 4/22/2013 1:43 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
04/22/2013 01:06 PMPosted by Alona
Hopefully Aquatic pets are on that list too. :)


Dragons too. If you can take an enemy from above 25% to 0 in one hit and get the racial on a fresh enemy, then it's great. But it seems like more often you get a pet to just under 25% and then get bonus overkill. Maybe that's a misperception on my part, but it seems like this one gets wasted a lot. Maybe it should trigger on a kill?

04/21/2013 08:56 PMPosted by Simca
They just need to drop 'logic' from their priorities on the Elemental racial and make it ignore all negative effects and still gain all positive effects.


I would prefer this to the proposed swap change.

Swapping pets is tactical enough as it is and frequent, and giving elementals a swap bonus would mean every PvP team would have to have one.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17845
04/22/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Crithto
we’re thinking of redesigning the elemental pet passive along the lines of a ~50% reduction in damage for the turn one is swapped in.


You should expand on the passive rather than just scrap it. It is unique and I'd hate to see that lost. A lot of us have teams that take the current Elemental passive into account. I use my Living Sandling almost purely to get out of my own weather effects when I wish to. That's a viable strategy that you're just up and getting rid of. You're also removing a major counterplay against weather-based teams.

Bad, bad, bad.

Added defense when swapped in is terrible. At least the current passive is consistent while the pet is on the field. Why not go the other direction and make the weather effects more straightforward rather than rob the elementals of their inherent neutrality to the weather?

If anything needs its passive adjusted it should be the Flying family. That one almost never gives any practical benefit.
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MVP
90 Worgen Warlock
10465
A swapping passive would have no benefit for an elemental pet used on the field as the first pet. Unlike every other racial. I hope something like that is taken into account.

The flying passive is VERY useful. It usually guarantees that any flying pet you have will attack first, which makes attacks like alpha strike more useful. It also helps out the slower flying pets with more attack like the brilliant kaliri and yellow moth be the great beasts of fable/daily powerhouses that they are.

I agree that the dragonkin bonus gets wasted a lot. It was better when it was bugged to go off any time it hit a pet below 25% because then it was never wasted. (It constantly refreshed itself and was around after the pet died.) Still overpowered, though, so I understand why the fixed it.

It seems like right now aquatics, dragon, and beasts need the most help. The humanoid passive is pretty meh at best as well. If I had to rate them in order of the ones that need the most help it'd be:

1) Aquatics (seriously theirs is practically useless.)
2) Beasts
3) Dragonkin
4) Humanoids

This is under the understanding that the elemental passive is already on the block to be fixed, which is why I didn't list it. However, ignoring weather effects is actually one of the better passives. Or it would be if it weren't so buggy.

The magic, mech, and undead passives seem to be the most useful at the moment.
Edited by Alona on 4/22/2013 2:20 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
If the Aquatic racial reduced dots to just one round (ie: the initial damage and the initial dot tick), I don't think that would break anything. Then the idea of aquatics "washing" dots away would really shine. It would then become common sense to not use dots against aquatics (which I think should be the goal of this racial), just like you don't blow your burst ability against magic pets and you don't try to CC critters.

Overall I really like the spirit of each racial's design. They are all appropriately themed, and I hope they are kept intact rather than dramatically changed. Tweek, don't chop.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17845
Overall I really like the spirit of each racial's design. They are all appropriately themed, and I hope they are kept intact rather than dramatically changed. Tweek, don't chop.


This. A thousand times this.
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90 Undead Rogue
4535
This is under the understanding that the elemental passive is already on the block to be fixed, which is why I didn't list it. However, ignoring weather effects is actually one of the better passives. Or it would be if it weren't so buggy.


How about: "Takes 50% less damage for 1 turn when weather changes." Simple, and elemental.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
11355
04/22/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Alona
A swapping passive would have no benefit for an elemental pet used on the field as the first pet.


Unless it counted as swapped on the first turn of the game.
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90 Tauren Hunter
10455
Hopefully Aquatic pets are on that list too. :)


Haha, when I read this I realized I couldn't even remember the aquatic racial off the top of my head! It's just totally irrelevant in pet battle strategy.

We feel that the elemental passive is currently too confusing in that it is somewhat ambiguous with regard to direct effects of weather, but not effects that are not directly related to weather.


This is so true. There have been countless threads by people who think they are reporting bugs, but just don't understand weather and the way it works with the elemental racial.

We also feel that weather is one of the more fun and synergistic elements of Pet Battles


Me too. Using weather effectively is the key to pvp success.
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90 Tauren Hunter
10455
04/22/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Alona
The humanoid passive is pretty meh at best as well.


I think the humanoid passive is pretty useful actually. I mean, yes it is in the middle of the pack. But on 2 pets in particular, it is positively awesome. Anubis idol with Sandstorm means 70 damage reduction per turn plus 69 healing (when it hits, which won't be every turn, but most). Thats 139 points of damage mitigation almost every turn. I also like it on the Corefire Imp. Apply Immolation right before he is dead and put him on the back row and he will heal back up almost to full. Pretty neat trick.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
11510
Currently, I really like that my Cinder Kitten can come out and nuke the place and not be affected by weather. I hope it doesn't lose that capability.
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90 Tauren Hunter
10455
Maybe it should trigger on a kill?


If the Dragon Racial triggered on a kill it would be way better.

Posted by Simca
They just need to drop 'logic' from their priorities on the Elemental racial and make it ignore all negative effects and still gain all positive effects.


This sounds like the recipe for a super buggy and unpredictable ability. You would have to almost write code for each kind of weather to spell out how it would interact with Elementals.
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90 Troll Warlock
11210
Doesn't this kinda torpedo all the elemental pets out there with effects like Scorched Earth? One of the primary benefits of pets like the Spirit of Summer is that you can turn the weather to a damage-everything-every-turn effect, but still not damage your elemental pet.
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90 Tauren Hunter
10455
Doesn't this kinda torpedo all the elemental pets out there with effects like Scorched Earth? One of the primary benefits of pets like the Spirit of Summer is that you can turn the weather to a damage-everything-every-turn effect, but still not damage your elemental pet.


It definitely does. Fel Flame is really effective with this too. I also like to use Call Lightning and then switch in an elemental pet that can drop a few dots.

Obviously, there will be some tradeoffs, but I'm open to the change. There have been so many forum posts complaining or confused about the Elemental Racial dating back to the beginning of MOP. I can't blame them for wanting a simpler solution. And they have really done a great job balancing the game so far. It doesn't always happen as fast as we would like, but they are definitely listening and they want the game to be good.
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Community Manager
Hopefully Aquatic pets are on that list too. :)

Indeed, as well as Critters and Magic! Here's what we're thinking and working on at the moment, and again, please share your thoughts and feedback:

Aquatic: Harmful DoTs reduced by 50% (up from 25%)
  • Aquatic-types currently reduce the effect of harmful damage over time abilities by 25%. Because few creatures have more than one DOT, this ends up being a less than steller damage reduction over the course of the battle. We feel increasing the effect to 50% should help aquatic pets benefit more from their passive.
  • Critters: Immune to CC completely
  • Critters currently reduce the duration of crowd control effects by one round, which makes fast critters significantly more powerful. We'd like critters of all speeds to benefit equally from their passive, so we're considering making them immune to crowd control effects completely. This would include stuns, roots, and other incapacitating effects.
  • Magic: Cannot be dealt more than 35% of total health in one move (down from 40%)
  • Magic-type creatures currently cannot take more than 40% of their maximum health as damage when struck. When balance changes were made to reduce the damage of some very heavy-hitting abilities, this passive was indirectly nerfed. We're thinking if we buff the effect to 35% of maximum health, that should compensate for previous adjustments.

  • Again, everything is subject to further adjustments, but our ultimate goal is to bring all passives up to the power level of some of the current favorites, such as Undead.
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    90 Undead Rogue
    4535
    These are pretty good.

    Indeed, as well as Critters and Magic! Here's what we're thinking and working on at the moment, and again, please share your thoughts and feedback:


    These are pretty really cool changes, thanks Critho. I like the critter passive change the most, I think it'll make critters desirable.

    Since you are asking for feedback, here is some of mine:

    For Elementals I'd like to suggest just making them take x% less damage when weather changes. Would make them a neat weather counter, but other idea you floated is really good too, because it is useful since swaps happen very often.

    Aquatic - hard to tell, because dot's are not prevalent yet outside of ooze and razortooth. But if it catches on, it'll be pretty useful to have an aquatic pet around. Also aquatic pets (at least crabs) have shields, and shields eliminate most dots anyway. But new racial would be neat for frogs/otters which people don't use very much. Maybe something like "Increased dodge change by x% when below y% health" would help the racial along with dot reduction?
    Edited by Kenpo on 4/23/2013 9:22 AM PDT
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    90 Goblin Priest
    16945
    [quote]
  • Critters currently reduce the duration of crowd control effects by one round, which makes fast critters significantly more powerful. We'd like critters of all speeds to benefit equally from their passive, so we're considering making them immune to crowd control effects completely. This would include stuns, roots, and other incapacitating effects.


  • This specifically seems a tad overpowered since many abilities play off of some of those CC effects. Off the top of my head all spiders that use 'webbed' modifiers, the kun-lai runt which uses a stun modifier, and I'm sure there are others I'm just not thinking of currently.

    Most critters in general seem to be creatures that one might consider 'quick' in a real work environment, why not give them a speed buff similar to flying, but maybe while under the effects of cc? 50% speed buff while rooted or maybe just a higher dodge chance against CC spells specifically?
    Edited by Tiny on 4/23/2013 9:39 AM PDT
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    90 Tauren Hunter
    10455
    Aquatic: Harmful DoTs reduced by 50% (up from 25%)


    Hard to say if this will be useful. I'll withhold judgement. Dot teams are not usually a problem for me in PVP. Are weather effects considered dots? I'm thinking about Lightning Storm and Scorched Earth.

    so we're considering making them immune to crowd control effects completely. This would include stuns, roots, and other incapacitating effects.


    This change would take the critter family from marginal to extremely useful. I like it! Time to dust off my Wolpertinger.

    Magic: Cannot be dealt more than 35% of total health in one move (down from 40%)


    Its funny that they are looking at Magic. I think their racial is one of the better ones. Dragons need more help for sure.
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    88 Tauren Priest
    11440
    [quote]Critters: Immune to CC completely
    [li]Critters currently reduce the duration of crowd control effects by one round, which makes fast critters significantly more powerful. We'd like critters of all speeds to benefit equally from their passive, so we're considering making them immune to crowd control effects completely. This would include stuns, roots, and other incapacitating effects.


    This... would be too much. It would just turn into a game of prediction. Big hit move coming? Swap an elemental in to take it. CC move coming? Swap to critter.

    That's a form of strategy, sure, but there has to be a better way to counter mechanics other than just completely negating them with a passive.
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