Sandstorm seriously bugged - FYI

90 Undead Rogue
4535
I do understand that the undead pet already died, but due to it's racial it is still on the playing field and not completely dead. I guess it just depends on what round your pet and the opponents pet dies during the undead racial to determine the win (or draw).

I just hate ties lol! in any sport


I remember I had this one battle, toe to toe all the way to the end, it's when I tried an all undead team.

And my last pet was a crawling claw and his was a robot. Skipping to the end where each one of us had one pet left and both were severely injured, he kills my claw, my claw revives and hits him. On next turn (immortal round) my claw hits and finishes the robot. Robot revives, and my curse of doom goes off killing him.

That was the most awesome tie I have ever had.
Edited by Kenpo on 4/24/2013 4:07 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
04/24/2013 03:09 AMPosted by Ryuuou
I like the Idea of Magic passive, but in functional use, it's rather situational, unlike beast or flying, which is always useful. Even if you're dealing with a bursty pet, rarely is high dmg moves their only ability, and even when used defensively to save other pets, it's not guaranteed, and you will take a large amount of damage regardless, making it feel lackluster against anything other than a oneshot-esqe combo.


Magic passive is always useful. It really helps your survivability. You are essentially immune to all burst, including crits, unless it's in multi-attack form (which is the racial's counter, so that's fine, things have to have counters).

Even when the magic racial doesn't "feel" useful, it's useful. It reduces your opponent's options, which is a form of power.

04/24/2013 01:15 AMPosted by Traimmy
why cant they learn not to mess with things.


Stand on one leg. When you're balanced, freeze. You will fall.

Balance is a process, not a state of being.

04/24/2013 09:35 AMPosted by Calonderiel
Being able to open on the next pet with a massive damage bonus is the whole point of the ability.


Not disagreeing, but one could also argue the whole point of the dragonkin racial is as an execute.

Personally I like both uses and would like to preserve both.

When blizzard fixed the bug that made this racial last two rounds, they showed us they want this racial to be bursty (1 round, +50% damage). They could have made it more sustained (2 rounds, +25% damage) but they didn't. So I don't think increasing the number of rounds this lasts would be a good idea. I think we're stuck with 1 round on this. I also no longer think it triggering on a kill would be good, because it would remove the usefulness as an execute.

With those parameters, I think the focus should be on when it gets triggered. Find the sweet spot that makes it feel useful as an execute or an opener.
Edited by Hudax on 4/24/2013 6:08 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
15985
Suggestion for an elemental passive: something like "Any elemental attack taken will heal the pet for 5% of damage taken" or something to that effect. Harkens back to a time in WoW when you couldn't use Fire spells on things like Rag, etc. Same kind of principle.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21405
My take on two of the racials. I was initially set on doing all 10, but my time is up for right now.

Undead: Wait and see
This is still the best racial in the Pet Battle system, but not by a TON any more. The burst nerfs indirectly nerfed this racial in comparison to the Mechanical racial because the Mechanical pet has much more of a chance to survive the first round. Additionally, the burst nerfs essentially lowered "damage per turn", which slightly lowers the usefulness of the additional turns in comparison to the other racials.

I do not suggest changing the racial to avoid ties unless you plan on redoing the entire win/loss/tie end-of-battle system around it. While I don't think this racial should be nerfed right now, the last thing it needs is to win more battles and the -last- thing you should do is change this, which encourages more and more use of 3x Undead.

Suggestion - Don't nerf it. Don't buff it by "fixing" ties. Just leave it alone for now and reevaluate after making the other racial changes.

Dragonkin: Too weak
A lot of people on the forums don't seem to understand this racial or the changes that occurred to it. Originally, it was fine in terms of balance, but it was balanced around a bug (2 turns of the damage bonus). When the bug was rightfully fixed in a later patch, the racial started sucking due to its very limited usefulness.

Suggestions - Increase buff duration to 2 turns, make it also trigger on a kill in addition to going both the health threshold (and make it refresh if it hits another trigger condition), or increase damage gain. I perfer to the first two solutions. For you, the first solution is probably the best because the second one is a little complicated to explain and handle while the first solution is just changing a "1" to a "2".

When blizzard fixed the bug that made this racial last two rounds, they showed us they want this racial to be bursty (1 round, +50% damage). They could have made it more sustained (2 rounds, +25% damage) but they didn't. So I don't think increasing the number of rounds this lasts would be a good idea. I think we're stuck with 1 round on this. I also no longer think it triggering on a kill would be good, because it would remove the usefulness as an execute.

With those parameters, I think the focus should be on when it gets triggered. Find the sweet spot that makes it feel useful as an execute or an opener.

I wouldn't read too much into game design from bug fixes. The programmers probably don't always consult the developers when fixing smaller bugs; they could have just fixed the Dragonkin racial to match the tooltip simply because it didn't match the tooltip.
Edited by Simca on 4/24/2013 10:17 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21405
For example, if your opponent has a pet that gains an additional attack in a Blizzard, they will still get the additional attack against your elemental pet.


But... that's wrong. I've used moves like that, such as Ice Lance on an elemental pet, and it always only hits once because they're ignoring the Chilled effect from the Blizzard that's up. Maybe this was changed but my friend made a specific team to null that against me.

It's extremely inconsistent right now.

USUALLY the abilities that state "If the weather is X" ignore the elemental passive and the abilities that state "If the opponent has Y weather-related debuff" abide by the elemental passive. However, there are at least 3-5 different exceptions, which is actually a significant chunk of broken abilities since there aren't that many weather abilities in the first place.

This is one of the arguments as to why they should probably change the Elemental passive somehow.
Edited by Simca on 4/24/2013 10:15 PM PDT
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27 Pandaren Warrior
6835
Wow! Can I get slammed anymore plz? Misinterpretations can be rampant on these forums.


I wasn't trying to "slam" you or anyone else.

Sorry if it came across that way.

Just saying that being invincible for a round after dying isn't the same as the mechanical resurrection, due to mechanicals still being vulnerable. <.<

Pretty sure we all hate ties. : )

On topic though, buff Dragonkin please.

Magic racial is already pretty great, especially w/ a lower hp magic pet; the new racial idea is essentially making them completely immune to crits, which is also incredibly good. W/ the prevalence of Dragonkin moves on everything (even non-Dragons), it may be worth using these guys outside of the Enchanted Broom.

I think the Aquatic racial still needs a bit more than just 50% duration reduction, especially since almost every single DoT ability can be spammed. Another poster mentioned that DoT effects might last 1 round (initial damage and following round) on Aquatics, which I think is a good idea. Especially since (also already mentioned) so many Aquatics are already equipped w/ Shell Shield that combats DoTs effectively.

Critters are already pretty much immune to CC if they're fast enough, so I don't mind the change there for stuns and sleeps, but I'm still not quite sold on whether they should just be completely immune to roots as well. As it is, they are only in roots for 1 round, making it extremely hard to capitalize on these types of abilities.
Edited by Machival on 4/24/2013 11:29 PM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
16070
Unless it counted as swapped on the first turn of the game.


'the turn an elemental pet becomes your active pet, it takes 50% damage'

something like that. it would cover swap ins as well as 'first turn of combat'
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100 Worgen Mage
13895

Magic passive is always useful. It really helps your survivability. You are essentially immune to all burst, including crits, unless it's in multi-attack form (which is the racial's counter, so that's fine, things have to have counters).

Even when the magic racial doesn't "feel" useful, it's useful. It reduces your opponent's options, which is a form of power.


I suppose I worded it a tad wrong, it is useful, but that:

    Getting hit for 1/3rd of your hp still hurts, and doesn't negate the role that burst is supposed to fill; gaining a strength advantage early on in a fight, by quickly knocking out a pet without giving him the chance to deal similar dmg.

    It forces a pet swap. Unless all your pets are magic, this is /incredibly/ powerful, I would argue even more potent than burst immunity

    Other skills do it better: 100% immunity, or 100% dodge + a high dmg attack the next turn, even a simple pet resistance ((such as an Human burst attack vs a beast)) can sometimes end up preventing more damage than the Magic Racial would have prevented.

Admittedly; when you charge up a one shot ability, and they defensively swap in a magic pet: it is rather strong. I simply feel that the benefits of having that are outweighed by the above
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90 Undead Rogue
4535
I actually like dragonkin racial. There are battles where it doesn't help much because opponent has 10 hp left or something minor and you get racial proc...

But it's plenty useful other times. You get someone into execute range and racial procs you are guaranteed to blow them up, really nice vs shielding type of pets. And if they are low hp, they can't swap pets, because if they do next pet will lose at least half their hp on the swap turn.

Plus dragonkin racial is great with tamers, they got into execute range pretty fast, and there this thing really shines.
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MVP
90 Worgen Warlock
10615
The magic racial is fine IMO. Especially when you consider that magic's weakness, dragonkin, are one of the burstiest pet families in the game. In fact, the magic racial hilariously almost completely negates the dragonkin racial. Added damage doesn't do much when you already can't knock off more than a set amount of HP.

The magic racial is a buffer. It isn't meant to completely negate comps, but it does fairly adequately negate extra strength moves.

The dragonkin racial would work better if it was an execute and not something that fell off and got wasted. Imagine if warriors only had 1 shot to do extra damage in execute range.
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
The dragonkin racial would work better if it was an execute and not something that fell off and got wasted. Imagine if warriors only had 1 shot to do extra damage in execute range.


That's an idea. Maybe the racial should stay up until the dragon does a certain minimum amount of damage to a single pet.
Edited by Hudax on 4/25/2013 11:49 AM PDT
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MVP
90 Worgen Warlock
10615
04/25/2013 11:48 AMPosted by Hudax
The dragonkin racial would work better if it was an execute and not something that fell off and got wasted. Imagine if warriors only had 1 shot to do extra damage in execute range.


That's an idea. Maybe the racial should stay up until the dragon does a certain minimum amount of damage to a single pet.


Something like that or maybe the buff doesn't fall off until it lands a successful attack move. Rounds in pet battles have always been so ambiguous and weird anyway, it would probably be best if less racials depended on them. Like the upcoming proposed change to the critter racial, for example.
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
04/25/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Alona
Something like that or maybe the buff doesn't fall off until it lands a successful attack move.


Yeah, then you could choose to use it immediately when it triggers, or if it would be wasted, swap the dragon out and back in later and still get the use out of it. Or heal and not waste it.
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68 Night Elf Death Knight
1500
Will The Wild Pets That Are Lvl 1 Be buffed As well
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
18705
Dragonkin racial buff could be reworked to distribute the bonus damage evenly among the enemy team -- reducing the amount of overkill damage if used against the first of three pets, a little freebie aoe.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12410
As it is, they are only in roots for 1 round, making it extremely hard to capitalize on these types of abilities.


That's the point, though.

Critters have generally crap damage and crap movesets. It would only make sense that they're good at something and that something could easily be taking apart combos like this.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12410
04/22/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Crithto
we’re thinking of redesigning the elemental pet passive along the lines of a ~50% reduction in damage for the turn one is swapped in.


I would actually suggest giving that to critters and fixing the elemental racial so it always works in their favor (call it "cornered" or something that prepares the critter for the attack).

The reason I suggest this is because, without elementals being the natural counter to weather-based teams, these teams would wreak havoc in the metagame to the point where they're the only thing we'd ever see played (and we see tons of them even with the elemental racial in place).
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90 Tauren Druid
9105
I don't think ANY pet's racial should be the swap idea.

For one thing, the whole swapping for 50% less damage really steps on the toes of the magic racial. If you had a magic pet and an elemental in the back row and needed to swap one in to take a big hit, which would you choose? Prior to the swap idea, the answer was a no-brainer. Now, part of the magic niche isn't their niche anymore.

Plus, any benefit you gain just from swapping is a bad idea for PvP. Swaps are so frequent that it would become the best pet you could have, and everyone would run triple elemental. No more meta game. Nevermind that you could simply swap every other round to gain 25% damage reduction for the duration of every fight. Now you have to put DR on your own racial to balance its OPness.

All thinking toward any kind of racial benefit triggering from a swap should be stopped.
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27 Pandaren Warrior
6835
04/26/2013 10:35 AMPosted by Hudax
Plus, any benefit you gain just from swapping is a bad idea for PvP. Swaps are so frequent that it would become the best pet you could have, and everyone would run triple elemental. No more meta game.


Would be an indirect buff for Aquatic pets, which could use a buff.

Not saying that I think that this is the way to go about it, though. lol.
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