5.3 PvP changes

90 Human Warrior
0
You know what, I like it for the most part. There are things I don't like but there will always be changes people are impartial too. I want to try and list some changes I'd like to see while address people's worries at the same time.

PvP should be fun. Plain and simple. You know whats not fun? Going into a BG just to get global-ed. Sitting at farm and stables afking hoping no one comes to your base because you would be no help else where. You don't get global-ed going into heroics or LFR so why BGs?

"You have to earn your hits. Getting stomped is part of the game you gotta work through it"

Saying you have to get you're but kicked just to be viable isn't really a valid argument. If you are geared and they are not and they still beat you, Well that means you just suck buddy. You need to depend on your skill in the game not out gearing your opponent. If that's how you feel, you need to fix your priority of out gearing and start learning how to out skill. If players have a chance to stay alive longer than the enemy's 3 global CDs. You will start seeing more actual participation and trying in BGs.

"I don't want to have to do PvE for BiS or get stomped by some PvE player"

Now this I am worried about. Specially be a FC for RBGs. I don't want this either. PvE gear shouldn't be BiS for PvP and vice verse. I believe PvP trinkets will still be better with the IL caps in place. My main worry for myself is FCs need PvE gear with more sockets. Also our trinkets for health pool increases need to keep resil and have it increased. Most of all however, PvE set bonuses should not work in instanced PvP. I can not stress this enough. Please make that happen. I don't want 4.3 where everyone had to have heroic PvE set bonuses to RBG. I don't raid. I don't like LFR. I like PvP. PvE set bonuses do not belong in instanced PvP.

"It's not about me out gearing them, I like the challenge of beating someone better geared!"

No one is stopping you from putting on last season's PvP gear to fight someone better geared. If this is really what you want (which I don't really believe hardly anyone really does) you can still do this. Put on your lower lvl PvP gear and go test your mettle. This argument is completely invalid since you can still do this.

"This will ruin World PvP!"

Actually don't have much to this. I know the changes will affect WPvP battles. The only people though who really have room to talk is Emerald Dream and servers like theirs. But most of WPvP is about who out numbers who. It's never a fair battle anyways. But I do understand the frustration of wanting to be BiS and having to do PvE for WPvP. My earlier suggestion could help. Do not let PvE set bonuses work against players. Though This might be quite a bit of coding to take place in a open world setting and I doubt that would happen.

"With out better gear there is no reward"

So you want to be rewarded for beating people and get better gear to beat them even faster. I understand you should feel rewarded for accomplishing high rating and skill performance. But you don't need a higher IL or harder hitting gear just so you can beat those same people faster. You have achievements, titles, and there should be more vanity items for this. By rewarding players who hit high rating early you are creating a larger hump for players coming in late, or still working on their skill level. If they work on their performance and can match yours, then they should be able to have a chance succeeding you. But if you are much more geared than them it isn't going to happen.

For this part I would suggest new achievement system for PvP. Making rating achievements by seasons instead of just one. Someone who went 2400 once in season 8 doesn't mean they are a 2400 player in s13. They also could of bought an account, win traded, or bought rating. Having achievements by seasons would show how skilled a player truly is. And also weed out the impostors.

To finish I'll just say the changes I'd like to see.

PvE set bonus not work in instanced PvP and/or against other players.
Add new Achievements tied in with each season for PvP and also the class. "Druid 2200 S13"
Add new PvP gear for Tank classes.

AND FOR GOD'S SAKES TAKE OUT TEMPLE AND MINES IN RATED BGS LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD.
Edited by Captfalcon on 4/4/2013 1:28 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
0
no trolls yet?
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90 Orc Warlock
16650
AND FOR GOD'S SAKES TAKE OUT TEMPLE AND MINES IN RATED BGS LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD.


I don't recall this being in any patch notes. And if it was not stated officially, it was not "like they said they would."

But I guess I agree with most of your arguements. PvE set bonuses should be disabled much like they do for challenge modes. I think, with these changes to resilience, burst will be toned down severely leading to less flavour comps in arenas. But that's to be seen I guess.
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90 Tauren Paladin
7845
TLDR...!@#$ and carry flags
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90 Human Warrior
0
04/04/2013 02:48 PMPosted by Incendium
AND FOR GOD'S SAKES TAKE OUT TEMPLE AND MINES IN RATED BGS LIKE YOU SAID YOU WOULD.


I don't recall this being in any patch notes. And if it was not stated officially, it was not "like they said they would."

But I guess I agree with most of your arguements. PvE set bonuses should be disabled much like they do for challenge modes. I think, with these changes to resilience, burst will be toned down severely leading to less flavour comps in arenas. But that's to be seen I guess.


You are correct, I was going off rumors for those maps. I believe they had in the PTR patch notes for a bit from what I heard and it was ninja edited out from what I remember of the rumors. Still I would like them to be made more balanced or taken out. Much like they did with EoTS when they took it out for a while.

I doubt geared players will see the difference in burst though at max gear level. You already had 65% resil with just gearing pvp. If you have a problem with burst and you were already geared you won't see much of a change.
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90 Undead Priest
9490
Well it was bad enough when you'd have some pve heroes entering bgs to get a pvp weapon and armor to up their ilvl so they could enter higher lvl pve dungeons. The motive I didn't care about, their skill lvl (realizing they can't just do a rotation) and them getting stomped because of it, and their pvp healers getting stomped immediately after is what I cared about.

Now we'll have ALL of them in there. Getting "stomped" SHOULD teach you that you should be doing something different.
Edited by Ministry on 4/5/2013 11:22 AM PDT
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22 Orc Shaman
4940
Too long.
Sorry bro. I have a short attention span. You might want to summarize into like one sentence or whatever. I might read it then.
Edited by Foulplay on 4/5/2013 11:21 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
9440
Shut up op and take your beatings like everyone else
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90 Human Rogue
2845
Shut up op and take your beatings like everyone else

Never understood this mentality. This is a great change on all fronts. In the past baseline resilience would have been bad due to it being the only pvp only stat. Increasing baseline resilience lets people play the game without pvp gear. But it stops there. Right now fresh 90s are a pure detriment to any team. They can't survive, they can't do damage. For these reasons their options are severely limiting and just frustrating to play. Not to mention barely lets a player make progress with their class in pvp.

Raising baseline resilience is the perfect solution to these problems. They actually get to take part in the battleground and make a difference. Now I understand some people can make a difference with no gear, but that's not the case with a lot of the classes. Players still have to put in the time and effort to get the best gear, and will not be competitive with fully geared players out of the gate.

This change keeps the incentive to gear going, while at the same time making entry-level pvp less frustrating and more accessible. The only players this new change hurts is those who made it a point to have fun by 2 shotting people in randoms after they geared up.
Edited by Esclamayshun on 4/5/2013 11:32 AM PDT
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04/04/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Captfalcon
PvE set bonus not work in instanced PvP

By the Gods, yes; please.
Edited by Gijora on 4/5/2013 11:47 AM PDT
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90 Undead Death Knight
5600
OP I hear what you are saying & I agree with some of your points, but I just find the whole "skill not gear" mantra as something that is often said by players in bad gear with nothing in their PvP resume to suggest they have much skill. That is about the nicest possible way I can say it.

Should gear trump skill? No it should not. However should someone that hasn't spent the time to gear up & (and more importantly) won a number of PvP matches (BGs, arenas and/or RBGs) have the same gear as someone that did? No they should not.

So what's the solution? Compromise. The player that has had success in PvP should have something to show for it & no I don't mean cosmetic rewards... that's like saying "great job, here's a $5 gift certificate to a store you don't even shop at as an annual bonus". So what about the player that didn't gear up, for whatever reason? Well the gear gap should be small enough so he can beat someone in better gear, provided he has more skill.

I believe the 65% base res accomplishes this goal. If Blizzard decides to go further with this all the way to gear normalization then they would have gone too far & the message would be "lazy players should have the same gear as those that earned it". That's the wrong message.

Edit: Esclamayshun and I are pretty much in agreement. Since we generally have different opinions this is evidence that compromise can be struck.
Edited by Infestyx on 4/5/2013 12:43 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
11585
I don't see why PvP'ers cant still earn their iLvl 512 Elite gear and have it scaled down in "instanced' pvp like the PvE geared players.

Wouldn't this solve the wPvP issues and well as give PvP'ers something to work towards?

The 512 gear would definitely help with those who like to do "out of instance" content whether it be duelling, For the Horde/Alliance achieves, wPvP, scenarios, PvP questing, outside world bosses, farming rares etc etc. At least it would still have value.

As for trinkets, tank gear and gear with extra slots...why not make them available to PvP'ers with conquest points? Personally, I'd much rather grind 1750 CPs over 1750 VPs. If a PvP'er chooses to make a hybrid set, then they have equal opportunity.

Please do not force us to do PvE content to be the "best" at PvP "instanced" or non-instanced.
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90 Human Rogue
2845
I don't see why PvP'ers cant still earn their iLvl 512 Elite gear and have it scaled down in "instanced' pvp like the PvE geared players.

Wouldn't this solve the wPvP issues and well as give PvP'ers something to work towards?

Only issue with this I can see is when 5.4 rolls around there's a chance that the 512 gear will barely be edged out by new conquest gear, which means less incentive next tier. Also, they said they were going to slowly increase the ilvl cap for pvp so that new PvE gear wouldn't be an advantage (due to how slowly players aquire conquest gear compared to PvE gear.) Which would put 512 pvp gear at an immediate advantage, which would just contradicts the changes made in the first place.
Edited by Esclamayshun on 4/5/2013 2:29 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11880
I'm more disappointed with the lack of anything done about the spamfest of CC out there. Alot of the times, people are complaining because they died in one of countless CC chains. Better gear and resil can prolong life, but doing something about CC can improve the quality.
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90 Orc Warrior
10055
I can't wait to do some randoms tonight with this new tyr axe :>
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
9440
04/05/2013 11:31 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
Shut up op and take your beatings like everyone else

Never understood this mentality. This is a great change on all fronts. In the past baseline resilience would have been bad due to it being the only pvp only stat. Increasing baseline resilience lets people play the game without pvp gear. But it stops there. Right now fresh 90s are a pure detriment to any team. They can't survive, they can't do damage. For these reasons their options are severely limiting and just frustrating to play. Not to mention barely lets a player make progress with their class in pvp.

Raising baseline resilience is the perfect solution to these problems. They actually get to take part in the battleground and make a difference. Now I understand some people can make a difference with no gear, but that's not the case with a lot of the classes. Players still have to put in the time and effort to get the best gear, and will not be competitive with fully geared players out of the gate.

This change keeps the incentive to gear going, while at the same time making entry-level pvp less frustrating and more accessible. The only players this new change hurts is those who made it a point to have fun by 2 shotting people in randoms after they geared up.


Do you seriously have to write a novel on every post? What is it you do for a living that you spend so much time writing memoirs on warcraft forums?
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90 Draenei Shaman
15605
Do you seriously have to write a novel on every post? What is it you do for a living that you spend so much time writing memoirs on warcraft forums?


How dare you create a well thought out argument concerning a hobby you enjoy!
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90 Human Rogue
2845
04/05/2013 04:30 PMPosted by Shâd

Never understood this mentality. This is a great change on all fronts. In the past baseline resilience would have been bad due to it being the only pvp only stat. Increasing baseline resilience lets people play the game without pvp gear. But it stops there. Right now fresh 90s are a pure detriment to any team. They can't survive, they can't do damage. For these reasons their options are severely limiting and just frustrating to play. Not to mention barely lets a player make progress with their class in pvp.

Raising baseline resilience is the perfect solution to these problems. They actually get to take part in the battleground and make a difference. Now I understand some people can make a difference with no gear, but that's not the case with a lot of the classes. Players still have to put in the time and effort to get the best gear, and will not be competitive with fully geared players out of the gate.

This change keeps the incentive to gear going, while at the same time making entry-level pvp less frustrating and more accessible. The only players this new change hurts is those who made it a point to have fun by 2 shotting people in randoms after they geared up.


Do you seriously have to write a novel on every post? What is it you do for a living that you spend so much time writing memoirs on warcraft forums?

I've not yet mastered the art of asking people if they're mad.
Edited by Esclamayshun on 4/5/2013 6:19 PM PDT
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90 Undead Death Knight
5600
I generally disagree with Esclamayshun but at least she forms coherent sentences and actually backs up her opinions with intelligent comments.
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