Rogues doing too much damage in PvP 5.2

90 Undead Rogue
13965
I got shat on by MfD earlier today. Had to get a screenshot.

I have 67% Resil in my Resto set.

http://i.imgur.com/O5z33O6.jpg

Eviscerate hit you 148570 (Critical)
Garrote damaged you 7222 (Critical)
Shadow Blade hit you 12722
Melee hit you 9531
Eviscerate hit you 148181 (Critical)
You died.

Armory of the character that did it:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/korgath/Andyxo/simple

Human rogue, using a PvE trinket.
66% Resil
52% PvP Power


To be fair, though, with 20% crit chance, the chance that both eviscerates crit is 4%.

I'm not saying that a 4% chance to instagib someone is balanced, just that he got lucky. The Shado-Pan trinket should have been nerfed way more than it was.
Edited by Kindath on 4/16/2013 8:51 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Ok so it's the pve trinket. Not rogues. So get rid of the trinket. But rogues dmg without the trinket isn't overpowered. Also I guess 200k chaos bolts and warriors popping 1 shot macros is fine with everybody.


i dot think anyone is ok with that either
Reply Quote
My point is just that without an imbalanced pve trinket that gib never would have happened. You can't nerf a class because a single trinket makes them burst too hard. The strength one does the same for warriors and dks. And hunter benefit just as much from the agi one.

Rogues have been gemming almost full resil. Their damage without that trinket is fine, nowhere near the levels of dks, destro locks, any mages, hunters, ferals, boomkins, etc. They're more of a support class that can burst decently every minute. But after that their damage is extremely healable.

Dk damage is god damn INSANE right now, but people would rather focus on rogues because of a stupid trinket.
Reply Quote
My point is just that without an imbalanced pve trinket that gib never would have happened. You can't nerf a class because a single trinket makes them burst too hard. The strength one does the same for warriors and dks. And hunter benefit just as much from the agi one.

Rogues have been gemming almost full resil. Their damage without that trinket is fine, nowhere near the levels of dks, destro locks, any mages, hunters, ferals, boomkins, etc. They're more of a support class that can burst decently every minute. But after that their damage is extremely healable.

Dk damage is god damn INSANE right now, but people would rather focus on rogues because of a stupid trinket.


Except y'know, the Rogue in my situation wasn't just using the trinket you're talking about. They were using Thunderforged Bad Juju which just has 1500+ mastery on it by default.

Really this won't be as big of an issue come 5.3 with the ilvl scaling in BG/Arena, but I still think something should be done to make PvE trinkets function less optimally in PvP. +1500 mastery is a ton, and you can't exactly make that proc less in BG, considering it's just a base stat on the trinket.
Reply Quote
1 Troll Rogue
0
My point is just that without an imbalanced pve trinket that gib never would have happened. You can't nerf a class because a single trinket makes them burst too hard. The strength one does the same for warriors and dks. And hunter benefit just as much from the agi one.

Rogues have been gemming almost full resil. Their damage without that trinket is fine, nowhere near the levels of dks, destro locks, any mages, hunters, ferals, boomkins, etc. They're more of a support class that can burst decently every minute. But after that their damage is extremely healable.

Dk damage is god damn INSANE right now, but people would rather focus on rogues because of a stupid trinket.


Except y'know, the Rogue in my situation wasn't just using the trinket you're talking about. They were using Thunderforged Bad Juju which just has 1500+ mastery on it by default.

Really this won't be as big of an issue come 5.3 with the ilvl scaling in BG/Arena, but I still think something should be done to make PvE trinkets function less optimally in PvP. +1500 mastery is a ton, and you can't exactly make that proc less in BG, considering it's just a base stat on the trinket.


EMFH allows human rogues to use 2 offensive pve or pvp trinkets.
If he wasn't a human, he'd need to use a pvp trinket.

Still, far and away, not even remotely close, the most overpowered pvp racial in the game.
Incoming alliance explaining pve horde racials and how they have anything to do with EMFH in pvp.
Reply Quote
The problem does not lie in rogue design, it is with the 522 trinkets that people are using. I think rogues damage is now comparable to other classes and not more so.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
6075
Rogues are doing a bit too much damage in PvP at the moment


A BIT? dying in 4 seconds before the first garrote ends is A BIT? and if that fails, vanish x2, CoS? 4 more attemps?

Their damage without that trinket is fine, nowhere near the levels of dks, destro locks, any mages, hunters, ferals, boomkins


Lol, a sub rogue burst ourperforms a fully RAID buffed destruction lock freecasting and thats without the trinket, and rogues can do this kind of burst while being unpeelable and keeping the target in neverending CC chains with resets
Edited by Paihn on 4/18/2013 4:06 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
17885


EMFH scales with current tier trinkets, and allows this sort of nonsense.
Been the same since it's inception, minus a month where it was a 3 min cd and the freaking skies opened up with tears.


If they buffed the CC break trinket and replaced the secondary stat with PvP Power, every other race would keep up with human pretty well. Not sure why everyone else gets screwed by the lack of PvP Power
Reply Quote
You guys are smoked out of your heads, rogues dmg is stupid OP right now NO class should be able to 100%-0 you with no way to counter. Trinket the first stun/silence, straight into another since they're still stealthed for 3 more seconds and can spam garrotes and CS on you, then get blinded once they've had their way resap until stun/silence dr is gone and gg. OR wait, trinket the kidney shot and eat a full blind, basically the same thing as scenario 1.

Keep in mind there is no just sitting the opener because that means dead also. Basically no trinket and rogue cds = dead, even if you have all of your defensive cds available.

Pretty stupid to just die without even getting to play your character. BTW I'm talking about rogues with OUT the pve trinket, and not when they are against undergeared players but players with full pvp gear 491/492 stacking resil.
Reply Quote
90 Human Rogue
12585
nerf healing more!
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
5840
. Also I guess 200k chaos bolts and warriors popping 1 shot macros is fine with everybody.


I guess you could say this but I have yet to experience hitting a PvP geared player with a chaos bolt doing more than 115k, but I am also the owner of an incomplete pvp set. I also play a rogue who has a full pvp set and I rarely see numbers like the ones aforementioned, even with my Shado-Pan assault trinket.
Reply Quote
Rogues are fine right now, just nerf the trinket.
Reply Quote
You guys are smoked out of your heads, rogues dmg is stupid OP right now NO class should be able to 100%-0 you with no way to counter. Trinket the first stun/silence, straight into another since they're still stealthed for 3 more seconds and can spam garrotes and CS on you, then get blinded once they've had their way resap until stun/silence dr is gone and gg. OR wait, trinket the kidney shot and eat a full blind, basically the same thing as scenario 1.

Keep in mind there is no just sitting the opener because that means dead also. Basically no trinket and rogue cds = dead, even if you have all of your defensive cds available.

Pretty stupid to just die without even getting to play your character. BTW I'm talking about rogues with OUT the pve trinket, and not when they are against undergeared players but players with full pvp gear 491/492 stacking resil.


make up numbers much?
your credibility is nearly none existent when you extremely over state things.
Reply Quote
You guys are smoked out of your heads, rogues dmg is stupid OP right now NO class should be able to 100%-0 you with no way to counter. Trinket the first stun/silence, straight into another since they're still stealthed for 3 more seconds and can spam garrotes and CS on you, then get blinded once they've had their way resap until stun/silence dr is gone and gg. OR wait, trinket the kidney shot and eat a full blind, basically the same thing as scenario 1.

Keep in mind there is no just sitting the opener because that means dead also. Basically no trinket and rogue cds = dead, even if you have all of your defensive cds available.

Pretty stupid to just die without even getting to play your character. BTW I'm talking about rogues with OUT the pve trinket, and not when they are against undergeared players but players with full pvp gear 491/492 stacking resil.


make up numbers much?
your credibility is nearly none existent when you extremely over state things.


Make up numbers? First of all obviously I'm not talking about bad rogues like you ;) Secondly I see rogues that can't break 1800 in arena 100%-0 2200 plus players all the time.

Rogues aren't overly OP in arena, but they need to make changes to them so that players can at least have the chance to counter what they are doing, find another way to keep rogues good, but not to the point that the other class doesn't even have a chance to counter them with their abilities. And I know it's not balanced for 1v1 but a line needs to be drawn because 1v1 is part of the game and honestly I'm sick of bad rogues thinking they're good.

Edit: and tell me if I'm lying Kalopsia if you can't 100%-0 most every class without them touching you.
Edited by Stuntin on 4/23/2013 5:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote
My point is just that without an imbalanced pve trinket that gib never would have happened. You can't nerf a class because a single trinket makes them burst too hard. The strength one does the same for warriors and dks. And hunter benefit just as much from the agi one.

Rogues have been gemming almost full resil. Their damage without that trinket is fine, nowhere near the levels of dks, destro locks, any mages, hunters, ferals, boomkins, etc. They're more of a support class that can burst decently every minute. But after that their damage is extremely healable.

Dk damage is god damn INSANE right now, but people would rather focus on rogues because of a stupid trinket.


Yes the trinket was OP but that's not really the problem, besides it's been nerfed into the ground now anyways.

The thing is most of us would like the chance to play our toons before we just die, even though dk dmg is over the top, at least we get to play the game while they're killing us, and a chance to counter their abilities with ours. We don't get that luxury with a rogue...
Edited by Stuntin on 4/23/2013 5:14 AM PDT
Reply Quote


make up numbers much?
your credibility is nearly none existent when you extremely over state things.


Make up numbers? First of all obviously I'm not talking about bad rogues like you ;) Secondly I see rogues that can't break 1800 in arena 100%-0 2200 plus players all the time.

Rogues aren't overly OP in arena, but they need to make changes to them so that players can at least have the chance to counter what they are doing, find another way to keep rogues good, but not to the point that the other class doesn't even have a chance to counter them with their abilities. And I know it's not balanced for 1v1 but a line needs to be drawn because 1v1 is part of the game and honestly I'm sick of bad rogues thinking they're good.

Edit: and tell me if I'm lying Kalopsia if you can't 100%-0 most every class without them touching you.


I can if I line up everything sure.
Don't happen too often in arena.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Shamán-Sargeras Melee hit You 8871 Physical.
Shamán-Sargeras Melee hit You 18850 Physical. (Critical)
Shamán-Sargeras Ambush hit You 90000 Physical.
Shamán-Sargeras Melee hit You 13824 Physical.
Shamán-Sargeras Eviscerate hit You 93057 Physical.
Shamán-Sargeras Eviscerate hit You 28907 Physical. (29344 Absorbed) (148133 Overkill) (Critical)
You died.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Sham%C3%A1n/simple

all while i have 10,067 resil, for 67.72% dmg reduction

edit - in case you're bad at math his evis crit hit me for 206,384.
Edited by Cobrapepper on 4/28/2013 9:20 PM PDT
Reply Quote
I have a rogue and it doesn't do very much damage. I have tried using 1 handed swords and daggers and combinations and I can't get anywhere near the damage of some horde rogues. I am also an alchemist and herbalist and have a macro for my trinket and herb profession buff but still can't get close.

in relation to rogues and other players doing massive hits, I have found several classes seem a bit op at times but it does not appear to be all players in that class. It appears that individual players can do massive damage very quickly and this is not normal.
eg: last night in warsong gulch a horde destruction warlock was popping players for over 170k (not critical) with Shadowburn. My player (I was using a Paladin) has over 64% res and similar gear to other players but I took several big hits from this player.

in other bgs my players have taken similar big hits from dks, warriors and rogues. Most of the players doing these huge hits appear to be undead. I am unsure if this is related but it may be a hack or a bug (I assume its a hack)

if players are using pve weapons and gear in pvp, then any procs from that gear should be removed for pvp.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Rogue
16320
I have a rogue and it doesn't do very much damage. I have tried using 1 handed swords and daggers and combinations and I can't get anywhere near the damage of some horde rogues. I am also an alchemist and herbalist and have a macro for my trinket and herb profession buff but still can't get close.

in relation to rogues and other players doing massive hits, I have found several classes seem a bit op at times but it does not appear to be all players in that class. It appears that individual players can do massive damage very quickly and this is not normal.
eg: last night in warsong gulch a horde destruction warlock was popping players for over 170k (not critical) with Shadowburn. My player (I was using a Paladin) has over 64% res and similar gear to other players but I took several big hits from this player.

in other bgs my players have taken similar big hits from dks, warriors and rogues. Most of the players doing these huge hits appear to be undead. I am unsure if this is related but it may be a hack or a bug (I assume its a hack)

if players are using pve weapons and gear in pvp, then any procs from that gear should be removed for pvp.


Has nothing to do with bugs or hacks. It's just a matter of having the gear and knowing how to play. (playing the best race and having appropriate professions makes a difference also, as does proper enchants & itemization. ie: gemming/reforging)

If you can line everything up the damage output can get pretty stupid.

Consider the rogues profile linked above yours with everything procced

Dancing steel - 1650 agi
Conquest Insignia - 3954 agi
Shado-Pan trink - 8800 agi (less now)
Synapse Springs - 1920 agi

For an extra 16,324 agility. He has 16,472 agi passively, so with procs lining up right he can just about double his agility. It's inevitably going to lead to high burst.

These are numbers you will never achieve on your Worgen. You gimped your potential burst output at the character selection screen. You also have professions that won't do much to aid in burst damage.

My rogue isn't in the best position for maximum burst either, but I can still put out pretty solid damage. (gnome instead of human & alchemist instead of good 2nd profession, though the trinket at this level is quite good)

With synapse springs and trinket up during find weakness it's not uncommon for me to see 101-105k eviscerates on people with cata pvp gear at 85, and this is after they scaled people in this bracket up to 89 so my secondary stats aren't that great. That's about 50% of someones life in this bracket, usually while they're still garroted in a cheap shot. Not uncommon at all for people to come out of an initial cheap shot after subterfuge ends sub 50%, but I digress. It's not hacks or bugs.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]