Rogues doing too much damage in PvP 5.2

90 Blood Elf Warlock
7905
Also I guess 200k chaos bolts and warriors popping 1 shot macros is fine with everybody.


whoa whoa whoa, lets keep warlocks out of the discussion
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98 Orc Death Knight
9070
I died in a span of 7 seconds to a Rogue today, I had to armory him and he was in full PVP BG gear.

Basically, I guess the stars aligned and he destroyed me.
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100 Human Rogue
16080
Dk hit me for 180k today, I had full pvp gear, guess the stars aligned and he destroyed me.
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98 Orc Death Knight
9070
Dk hit me for 180k today, I had full pvp gear, guess the stars aligned and he destroyed me.


That's because you're in PVE gear good sir.
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90 Human Hunter
9645
I play a mage, rogue, and Lock in PvP. Not super competitive because I don't have the time, but I've been playing the game a long time, and I'm pretty aware of what's what.

Rogue is easily the hardest hitting. Mage is 2nd, and my lock is a joke compared to the other 2.

I'm not saying to nerf rogues because I like rogues being super bursty like this, but I do think that other classes/specs need buffs to do what they do best.

Locks should have dots that hurt and they should be very durable, Rogues should burst like hell, and live off of the element of surprise, and Mages should be escape artists with solid burst.

Right now, 2 of the 3 are about where they should be...Buff locks.
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100 Human Priest
13840
This thread needs more spriests.

I think we should get the warlock level 90 talent Kil'Jadens Cunning.

I'd give up halo to be able to move and cast in pvp.

:p
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100 Human Rogue
16080
04/30/2013 10:30 AMPosted by Golavar
Dk hit me for 180k today, I had full pvp gear, guess the stars aligned and he destroyed me.


That's because you're in PVE gear good sir.


04/30/2013 08:32 AMPosted by Starbûck
I had full pvp gear,
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90 Draenei Shaman
9385
I'm gonna assume one faced the rogue in a random, perhaps not. As broke as rogue's were in 5.1, they deserve just a little overpowering, if that's even the case - which, I don't think so to the extent people have been saying. Plus, the two sham's complaining - I don't see any rankings on your page, not that I have them - but, I'm not complaining ;) --- so, I'm guessing you guys faced some hardcore rogues that decided to take out a bad day on you guys. Unless you were on different toons with rankings, not sure...

That being said, I'm just a casual. I do have a rogue that I didn't play much in 5.1. Still have blues on him, but the randoms I've been in so far during 5.2, my survivability (around 62-63% resil) has actually been decent. Each random is different, different players of different skill/gear, so it fluctuates...ie, random. My damage is nowhere near (gear is pretty low, pvp power about 25%) as good as what was mentioned. Unless I face someone with no gear lol I just think you guys ran into some well-geared, decent players that know their class and your's.

Oh, the hunter that said rogues need burst nerfed...really? A hunter saying that after what they got to do when MoP came out with stampede? And all the other annoying crap hunters do to everybody still, and forever, and forever.../facepalm (silly huntard)
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100 Night Elf Monk
14520
05/01/2013 08:10 PMPosted by Happlo
As broke as rogue's were in 5.1, they deserve just a little overpowering, if that's even the case


Oh, the hunter that said rogues need burst nerfed...really? A hunter saying that after what they got to do when MoP came out with stampede? And all the other annoying crap hunters do to everybody still, and forever, and forever.../facepalm (silly huntard)


Balance should never be balanced around the history of classes. Balance is not a punishment game, especially when the classes listed had no control over how powerful they were.

Now, that said, yes. Rogue damage can get pretty crazy. I've been 100-0'd in a cheap shot (yes just cheap shot) on my monk, but the rogues who did so had to force both of my character's trinkets out of my cold dead hands, so I don't feel so bad. Not only that, but the ONLY rogues to do so were those using pve trinkets such as the shado-pan assault trinket.

Those are to blame, not the class. Take those out of the equation FIRST, then see if damage is really so 'god-awful broken overpowered'
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13740
Was in an eots two days ago and got killed from 100% twice before cheap shot wore off(trinket and BW was down).

180k eviscerate's and 110k ambush crits. Against a fully pvp geared opponent. Anyone thinking that a rogue should be able to kill someone in a cheap shot either plays a rogue or they are delusional.
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100 Night Elf Druid
10355
Was in an eots two days ago and got killed from 100% twice before cheap shot wore off(trinket and BW was down).

180k eviscerate's and 110k ambush crits. Against a fully pvp geared opponent. Anyone thinking that a rogue should be able to kill someone in a cheap shot either plays a rogue or they are delusional.


I'm not a rogue but I think the biggest problem is the Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault that gives 8800 agility on a proc that allows them to rip you apart.

I would know because I deal insane damage during berserk+inca when this baby procs.
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90 Human Rogue
17275
1) Dmg is going to be nerfed big time in 5.3 -- everyone is losing around 15% (if not more from the PVP Power nerfs).

2) That double set of 148 Eviscerates totals 326k dmg and used 2 CDs. That's 3/4s the health most classes have.

3) Don't you think people should die when all CDs are lined up, they aren't using a defensive CD, and aren't peeling the Rogue?

4) Locks, Spriests, Frost Mages can do the same thing.

5) What do you want to happen? This is a serious question. Do you think DPS classes shouldn't pose a threat? If you mess up, you should die.

Fact of the matter is -- even with ALL that Burst, most healers are able to easily heal through it.

Rogues dmg isn't OP. It's how long we can CC people while killing them that's the real issue. And again, Locks and Mages do the same thing.

Blizzard has pretty much given up on trying to balance CC at all. So complain to them about it until they change it.
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rogues are ripping up plate and everything else right now. this is singularly the most overpowered class in wow history. that blizz continually allow this one class to ruin their game's pvp is beyond foolish. stealth/stuns/vanish are just too powerful a combination. the skill cap for the class needs to be much higher than it is due to all the natural advantages.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
13740
2) That double set of 148 Eviscerates totals 326k dmg and used 2 CDs. That's 3/4s the health most classes have.


If i could drop someone to 25% HP with 2 instant casts on the fastest GCD in the game, i would be dancing all night long in the OP yard.

3) Don't you think people should die when all CDs are lined up, they aren't using a defensive CD, and aren't peeling the Rogue?


So your argument is that people should only be allowed to survive a rogue's opener once every two minutes(trinket CD) while a rogue's burst CD's are on a far shorter CD? It wouldn't be as bad if rogue's weren't able to 100-0 someone before they even come out of stealth while playing a class with the strongest utility and amazing survivability. To add, rogue damage(unlike most classes) comes against stunned opponents so there is nothing they can do to defend themselves

4) Locks, Spriests, Frost Mages can do the same thing.


No they don't. Mages have the same burst potential but their sustained is weak, their survivability is poor compared to rogues, they don't have nearly as good control, and they are very peelable(unlike rogues). Spriests and locks aren't killing people in 3-4 secs in their OPENER while stealthed. They also can't smokebomb their opener like a rogue to practically guarantee a kill.

Fact of the matter is -- even with ALL that Burst, most healers are able to easily heal through it.


This just goes to show you don't have a single clue what you are talking about. Rogue CC is prob the best in the entire game. If the healer isn't sitting in a sap, he will be blinded, kicked, gouged, danced into a stun, garrotte'd, or just killed in a smokebomb. It's probably the most commonly accepted pvp truth that rogues are currently the best healer killer in the entire game. Top end 3s matches require most teams to stop the enemy rogue from killing their healer in the first 5 seconds of the match.

Rogues dmg isn't OP. It's how long we can CC people while killing them that's the real issue. And again, Locks and Mages do the same thing.


It must be nice living on fantasy island. If rogue damage isn't OP then the sun's not very bright and water must not be wet.

Blizzard has pretty much given up on trying to balance CC at all. So complain to them about it until they change it.


Scatter and freeze trap sharing DR in the new patch notes say hello. Just be grateful that you play a class alot of the pvp dev's main so it's unlikely that you will see any real nerfs.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
11100
Any Rogue with Tyrannical weapons is capable of killing me in my PvP set in a Cheap Shot.

PvP set has 63% resil. Before you start screaming "LOL 63% IS NOTHING LOLOLO"... another 4-6% Resil isn't going to make a difference.

Sit the cheapshot? Die in it.

Trinket the cheapshot? Eat Kidney, die in it.

Bubble? Vanish. Reopen once it fades. Die in it. See 'Trinket the Cheapshot' for alternatives here.

Dead in seconds. Literally no way out of it. Can't even deny the opener thanks to Scrubterfuge.

And by the way, when I say dead in a cheapshot that isn't an exaggeration. I literally mean dead in a Cheapshot. That's 370kx1.63 EHP or 603,100 effective damage done inside a Cheapshot.

Six. Hundred. Thousand.

If I somehow get lucky enough to survive the Cheapshot? Kidney. Trinket it? Blind, reset, reopen. Bubble? Vanish, wait it out, reopen (I can cast 2 FoLs and a Holy Prism in bubble, restores about 100k health. After 2 FoLs I'm almost OOM). Sit the Kidney? Die in it.

Too much damage plus too much crowd control plus far too many ways to reset fights equals potatoproof class. Something has to go.
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90 Human Rogue
17275
If i could drop someone to 25% HP with 2 instant casts on the fastest GCD in the game, i would be dancing all night long in the OP yard.


That wasn't two GCDs. That's at least 3. And it's also not a kill. Which means healing (which is OP as hell atm and only going to be moreso in 5.3) has plenty of time to react. Not to mention anyone who wants to peel.

And this coming from a Hunter proves my point at how many classes are able to do this. Go Arcane Shot a clothie. Your Burst is just as high, available at range, plus you can Deterence incoming dmg.

The problem isn't Rogue specific. It's Blizzard crap design.

And for more proof --

Any Rogue with Tyrannical weapons is capable of killing me in my PvP set in a Cheap Shot.


I can't count the number of times I've died in a HoJ. I can tell you, I die far more often to a 5 sec stun, than whoever I'm attacking dies in a Cheap Shot.

I'm not saying Rogue Burst isn't high. What I am saying is Burst in general is fairly high. Many classes are dying within a stun. And within a stun+silence...its game over for many of them.

And again that's my point. It's not the Burst so much as it is the ability to Burst on targets that have no way to defend themselves. Mages and Locks setup the same scenarios (and have greater survivabilty than Rogues).

My point is -- where do you draw the line?

You can't neuter one class if you aren't prepared to neuter them all.

Even with all this Burst it is getting very difficult to put down any form of Healer (except maybe Shaman thanks to Blizz's overnerfing).
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90 Human Mage
10880
05/05/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Kop
If i could drop someone to 25% HP with 2 instant casts on the fastest GCD in the game, i would be dancing all night long in the OP yard.


That wasn't two GCDs. That's at least 3. And it's also not a kill. Which means healing (which is OP as hell atm and only going to be moreso in 5.3) has plenty of time to react. Not to mention anyone who wants to peel.

And this coming from a Hunter proves my point at how many classes are able to do this. Go Arcane Shot a clothie. Your Burst is just as high, available at range, plus you can Deterence incoming dmg.

The problem isn't Rogue specific. It's Blizzard crap design.

And for more proof --

Any Rogue with Tyrannical weapons is capable of killing me in my PvP set in a Cheap Shot.


I can't count the number of times I've died in a HoJ. I can tell you, I die far more often to a 5 sec stun, than whoever I'm attacking dies in a Cheap Shot.

I'm not saying Rogue Burst isn't high. What I am saying is Burst in general is fairly high. Many classes are dying within a stun. And within a stun+silence...its game over for many of them.

And again that's my point. It's not the Burst so much as it is the ability to Burst on targets that have no way to defend themselves. Mages and Locks setup the same scenarios (and have greater survivabilty than Rogues).

My point is -- where do you draw the line?

You can't neuter one class if you aren't prepared to neuter them all.

Even with all this Burst it is getting very difficult to put down any form of Healer (except maybe Shaman thanks to Blizz's overnerfing).


Peel? Any good rogue sets up smoke smoke bomb damage. And add in hunters with thug cleave and it's impossible. You can kill as thug cleave even with damage CD's active. It's pretty gdamn insane and needs to be toned down. Luckily it is.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
18490
Blame the trinket, not the class (I own the trinket as well).
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Blame the trinket, not the class (I own the trinket as well).


I have to agree with a horde, as much as I don't like doing that :)

I was in twin peaks the other day with 2 other alliance rogues, (1 other worgan and a human). I was full pvp gear, the other 2 rogues had mainly pvp gear but had pve trinkets and a bit of pve armor (gloves & boots).

The 3 of us (3 rogues) worked together and attacked the same players at the same time. At the end of the bg the other 2 rogues had died about twice as many times as me, but they had 4-5 times the damage I did and about 7 times more kills than I did.

it isn't the characters in general, it is the pve trinkets and gear they are using from heroic raids that is giving them the massive damage they are doing and the almost instant kills. Warlocks & priests are also doing this and I guess other characters are as well.

According to Blizz this issue will be fixed in patch 5.3
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7892887/PvP_Gear_in_Patch_53-26_03_2013

If the info in the link is correct, there will be no more issues like this when 5.3 comes out. So here's hoping it works as intended. Yes Blizz, I am actually happy about your intended changes, don't let us down :)
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