Blizzard Really needs to tone down rogues

90 Worgen Rogue
4380
this is how blizz "balances" the game...

if rogues are killing things, rogue is too strong or other classes are too weak.

if rogues are not killing things... game's in good shape.
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90 Human Rogue
15195
Todays lesson ladies & gents. Dont RoP a rogue that has ST. The surgeon general has warned of excessive nerdrage and possible death when used incorrectly.

Tomorrow we will talk about Chi, and how missing a chi cost ability, costs no chi...as well as discuss why combo point abilities cost combo points and energy, even when they miss.

Monks are Balanced, will be right back aftter these messages from some idiot:


LOL, BRO, I WILL BUY YOU A FIFTH AND EMAIL IT YOU YOUR POBOX.
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90 Human Rogue
15195
04/17/2013 03:06 PMPosted by Grozgor


Achieves still carry over frand. can't fool meeeee.


Considering I got waaaaaaaay more KBs, and rating than is on this character, I think it is bugged.

My rogue is from vanilla, and I got Centurion on him.

SURE YOU DO KID, YOU LOG ON YA MAIN AND PROVE IT, UNTILL YOU DO YOU CAN SUCK A FAT C*** AND !@#$
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90 Human Rogue
15195
interesting the censored s tfup
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So, I haven't read nearly enough posts in this thread to completely understand all of what people are saying. With the understanding that people think rogues are OP/not and we're talking about PvP, here's my opinion.

Damage:
Rogues damage as Sub was fine in 5.1, though we got a 4% increase to damage on the target with Gatrote, or Rupture on them. It wasn't needed, but it's also not an insane increase and was done with the intent of making Sub look more appealing in PvE.
Shuriken Toss does decent amount of damage, and is currently great for getting combo points to refresh our 2-3 buffs/debuffs (while not awful, more than most classes). I personally miss the non-lethal poison proc, allowing us to actually catch up instead of playing like a scrub hunter, but I've learned to adapt. I don't see it being overly outrageous, when melee have the positional restriction. All ranged classes, while being more vulnerable in melee (V.S. a melee), can deal the same amount of damage regardless of relation to the target. The change to Shuriken Toss, like the Sanguinary Veins passive for Sub, was to make the talent look more appealing for PvE.

Survivability:
Rogues survivability has been and still is a little lackluster, and are very vulnerable to burst.
Cloak of Shadows is now on half the CD as it used to be, but it was a counterbalance the loss of being able to Preparation and Cloak of Shadows back to back. It's a powerful CD, however it has a somewhat short duration and you can still take physical damage through it. Something like Ice Block lasts longer and prevents all damage.
Evasion, while good against physical attacks requires you to face the target in order to be useful, is only increasing RNG, and has no effect on AoE like Shockwave.
Combat Readiness is a talent, and rather lacking as it depends on you getting hit with physical damage in order to get the damage reduction stacks. Quite frequently rogues die through Combat Readiness due to it's ramp-up time.
Elusiveness is a fairly good damage reduction, assuming you can predict incoming damage, though that's not always easy or possible. You can't use this while CC'd like another of damage reduction abilities other classes have, but there is no CD. Even with this up rogues will take quite a bit of damage.
Cheat Death while in theory it should often save your life, all it does is delay your death by one GCD. This talent is, and has been for a long time, a joke. It's not reliable at all.
Recuperate is a rather minor heal over time, that requires combo points in order to use, which reduces damage/stun output. One fault of having this as your 'heal' is it doesn't have much of an effect when your being bursted. It's simply a 'hide and heal up' as opposed to a 'I need to get 1/4+ of my health back, NOW'.

Control:
Stuns are something rogues are known for, however our stuns are single target. Like nearly all CC, they have diminishing returns shared with teammates, preventing us from spamming stuns.
Silence by rogues is Garrote, which requires us to use Vanish or Shadow Dance to use, both of which are valuable CD's.. Unlike quite a few other silences that arise in PvP, ours requires us to be in melee range , and is easy to predict (due to requiring Vanish/Dance).
Disarms from rogues is often reduced by a weapon chain or, currently, warriors set bonus and not ranged (like monks).

Utility:
Smoke Bomb is a unique ability that is very powerful, but also gives RBG teams a reason to bring a rogue (aside from the fact that they can stealth). Often players are able to break of any CC and get out of the Smoke Bomb in time (unless they're badly geared or greatly out numbered, in which case it likely didn't matter).

Many other classes bring multiple buffs, or unique/valuable abilities to rated PvP. Rogues tend to fall behind in that part, but make up with burst damage and control (though, these require a fair amount of work). We have a bit of everything, but we're not the best at it all, and often not even great at some things. If used properly, we're deadly, but what class isn't when being played by someone who knows what they're doing?
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90 Human Rogue
15195
So, I haven't read nearly enough posts in this thread to completely understand all of what people are saying. With the understanding that people think rogues are OP/not and we're talking about PvP, here's my opinion.

Damage:
Rogues damage as Sub was fine in 5.1, though we got a 4% increase to damage on the target with Gatrote, or Rupture on them. It wasn't needed, but it's also not an insane increase and was done with the intent of making Sub look more appealing in PvE.
Shuriken Toss does decent amount of damage, and is currently great for getting combo points to refresh our 2-3 buffs/debuffs (while not awful, more than most classes). I personally miss the non-lethal poison proc, allowing us to actually catch up instead of playing like a scrub hunter, but I've learned to adapt. I don't see it being overly outrageous, when melee have the positional restriction. All ranged classes, while being more vulnerable in melee (V.S. a melee), can deal the same amount of damage regardless of relation to the target. The change to Shuriken Toss, like the Sanguinary Veins passive for Sub, was to make the talent look more appealing for PvE.

Survivability:
Rogues survivability has been and still is a little lackluster, and are very vulnerable to burst.
Cloak of Shadows is now on half the CD as it used to be, but it was a counterbalance the loss of being able to Preparation and Cloak of Shadows back to back. It's a powerful CD, however it has a somewhat short duration and you can still take physical damage through it. Something like Ice Block lasts longer and prevents all damage.
Evasion, while good against physical attacks requires you to face the target in order to be useful, is only increasing RNG, and has no effect on AoE like Shockwave.
Combat Readiness is a talent, and rather lacking as it depends on you getting hit with physical damage in order to get the damage reduction stacks. Quite frequently rogues die through Combat Readiness due to it's ramp-up time.
Elusiveness is a fairly good damage reduction, assuming you can predict incoming damage, though that's not always easy or possible. You can't use this while CC'd like another of damage reduction abilities other classes have, but there is no CD. Even with this up rogues will take quite a bit of damage.
Cheat Death while in theory it should often save your life, all it does is delay your death by one GCD. This talent is, and has been for a long time, a joke. It's not reliable at all.
Recuperate is a rather minor heal over time, that requires combo points in order to use, which reduces damage/stun output. One fault of having this as your 'heal' is it doesn't have much of an effect when your being bursted. It's simply a 'hide and heal up' as opposed to a 'I need to get 1/4+ of my health back, NOW'.

Control:
Stuns are something rogues are known for, however our stuns are single target. Like nearly all CC, they have diminishing returns shared with teammates, preventing us from spamming stuns.
Silence by rogues is Garrote, which requires us to use Vanish or Shadow Dance to use, both of which are valuable CD's.. Unlike quite a few other silences that arise in PvP, ours requires us to be in melee range , and is easy to predict (due to requiring Vanish/Dance).
Disarms from rogues is often reduced by a weapon chain or, currently, warriors set bonus and not ranged (like monks).

Utility:
Smoke Bomb is a unique ability that is very powerful, but also gives RBG teams a reason to bring a rogue (aside from the fact that they can stealth). Often players are able to break of any CC and get out of the Smoke Bomb in time (unless they're badly geared or greatly out numbered, in which case it likely didn't matter).

Many other classes bring multiple buffs, or unique/valuable abilities to rated PvP. Rogues tend to fall behind in that part, but make up with burst damage and control (though, these require a fair amount of work). We have a bit of everything, but we're not the best at it all, and often not even great at some things. If used properly, we're deadly, but what class isn't when being played by someone who knows what they're doing?

what this cat said
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90 Orc Rogue
4130
LOL !! coming from a druid xD
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90 Undead Rogue
5600
i like how only people talking against this thread are the rogues only because they dont want a nerf which they def need and if they dont get one blizz better buff everyone else around them except mages anyways


Shut up, you don't even PvP. And why should anyone take your QQing post seriously when you have no experience anything outside of PVE?
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90 Undead Rogue
8400
Blizz really needs to tone down MONKS. They are 100 times more retarded to fight than any other class and feel worse than when death knights were introduced to the game and were super overpowered. Beofre if you were a druid, hunter, or mage you could root and kill a rogue with the rogue unable to fight back at all. Now that we have a range ability and are not a free kill now it is op? L2P kid
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6770
04/18/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Hemotherapy
Blizz really needs to tone down MONKS.


assuming you're talking about WW monks... MW monks are pretty terrible in arena.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
4960
04/18/2013 09:23 AMPosted by Exhume
i like how only people talking against this thread are the rogues only because they dont want a nerf which they def need and if they dont get one blizz better buff everyone else around them except mages anyways

what class are you?
we need a thread saying your class should be nerfed into insignificance.
see who speaks up against that?
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88 Blood Elf Rogue
6515
04/20/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Nightthyme
i like how only people talking against this thread are the rogues only because they dont want a nerf which they def need and if they dont get one blizz better buff everyone else around them except mages anyways


what class are you?
we need a thread saying your class should be nerfed into insignificance.
see who speaks up against that?


Only druids who don't want a nerf which they def need and if they don't get one blizz better buff everyone else around them except mages anyway ;)
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