Ret Pvp - Convince me?

90 Human Paladin
4445
So at some point I am looking to get back into pvp. I just keep feeling like I cant do pvp on my Pally, however, because the rotation is so silly.

How I see it (and I may be wrong) is that you pop wings, guardian, and hope for the best. Without cools I am screwed. You just press what is next in the priority. Heck, there is even an addon that tells you what button to press next.

Idk, I may be wrong, but this makes me consider finishing leveling my rogue or even switching over to DK since it can tank and pvp.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20740
04/16/2013 01:05 PMPosted by Ritik
How I see it (and I may be wrong) is that you pop wings, guardian, and hope for the best. Without cools I am screwed. You just press what is next in the priority. Heck, there is even an addon that tells you what button to press next.


Welcome to every class.
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90 Human Paladin
4445
04/16/2013 01:26 PMPosted by Cayse
How I see it (and I may be wrong) is that you pop wings, guardian, and hope for the best. Without cools I am screwed. You just press what is next in the priority. Heck, there is even an addon that tells you what button to press next.


Welcome to every class.


Literally every class. Not kidding.


I suppose you guys are right... I never really thought about it. I was convinced by the neigh-sayers who were complaining about Rets having no place in RBG's or Arenas.
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90 Human Paladin
0
I suppose you guys are right... I never really thought about it. I was convinced by the neigh-sayers who were complaining about Rets having no place in RBG's or Arenas.


its not that they have no place its just people prefer casters before melee
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90 Human Paladin
3555
May not be the "strongest" or "best" class - but they are fun to play.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20740
I was convinced by the neigh-sayers who were complaining about Rets having no place in RBG's or Arenas.


That's a melee problem, not a ret problem, one that has amazingly been acknowledged by Blizzard. Rogues get in because of smoke bomb, DKs get in because of grip and grasp. If they didn't have those, they wouldn't be getting in either.

Ferals, enhance, windwalkers, and to a very slightly lesser degree warriors are all as unwanted in RBGs as ret.

Ret is okay in arena, but it has a very limited number of "good" comps.
Edited by Cayse on 4/16/2013 2:38 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7020
Ret is incredibly fun in BGs.

Once you get some gear, your damage and heals can really provide a nice addition to your team.

It's definitely a different feel than most classes, but being able to support your team is a nice change. My main is a Lock, so I am used to fearing healers and blowing people up.

So, whenever I play this Paladin alt, I get quite a bit of enjoyment out of it. I love being able to literally be the difference maker in certain situations. Tossing Selfless Healer FoLs on the FC as he's about to die, then hitting him with a Hand of Sac or Hand of Freedom. Self heals, bubbles and other defensive abilities, along with kiting tools, makes guarding nodes quite a bit of fun. I have been able to hold 3-4 players off while my team was able to regroup and come defend the base I was guarding.

Ret has some pretty amazing burst, too.

I once heard Ret get called "medic with a shotgun" and I feel like that's a pretty good description.

From my experience in arenas, Ret is basically a take it, then dish it style of play. I like to group with a Feral Druid, Hunter, War, or FDK. I tend to get focused in all of those comps, nearly every match. So, I get to play defense out of the gate, then when the right moment comes, we'll pop CDs and burst them down.

I enjoy Ret because of the support role we play. When i'm getting trained in arena, I don't really get to play that role, because I have to use everything I can to try and keep me alive.

When we do get to play the support role, it's a blast.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5915

I once heard Ret get called "medic with a shotgun" and I feel like that's a pretty good description.


I'm stealing this! Love it.

And I completely disagree with Ret's rotation not being fun. I have played quite a few classes and I honestly enjoy Ret the most right now, especially at level cap with gear. It is incredible easy to gain HP these days.

I love being support too. It is the best feeling for my arena team to rely on me to sac, BoP or even WoG or FoL someone when they get switched and my healer is chain CCed.

Also, I may be weird, but I actually enjoy getting blown up in arenas. Especially against double dps. I guess I have just come to expect it so I prepare for it.

I love kiting stronger plate wearer, melee DPS. I respect the fact that I can not go toe to toe with a warrior or DK and expect to get out alive. My job is to kite him while my superior DPS beats the hell out of him and then when all of their CDs have come and gone, I pop mine and switch from using HP to heal my team to using it to destroy theirs.

Ret is an incredibly fun class to play, but it may be an aquired taste. Remember we are a hybrid more geared towards heals/support.
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90 Human Paladin
9560
kite,kite,kite,kite and then hope for the best ^_^
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100 Draenei Death Knight
16685
And nobody sees that as retarded design? A melee DPS that has to kite other melee like a caster because his melee potential is paltry compared to theirs. Ya that sounds like a blast!

Not only that, Ret's *giggle* 'utility' is a bad joke. So what if you can throw a nice offheal on someone every 16-18 seconds? Their opponents next attack will undo it in one. 'But we can HoP and HoS people too!' True you can...too bad Holy can do the exact same thing AND support their group 20x better, hence why they are taken and Rets considered a pariah.

Furthermore, once your opponent trinkets Rets one stun, you literally have NOTHING that forces them to pay attention to you besides long DPS CDs everyone on Azeroth can see when you use them. Ya, you might hit hard while they last, but doesn't do a fat lotta good when any smart opponent can just run away, CC you, or Ice Block/Dispersion/Deterrence/Divine Shield/etc. Too predictable and too easy to counter.

I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just trying to point out how bad Retribution actually is in comparison to other melee and how easily ranged can bend them over. Gratz on the 15% SoL buff in 5.3, but that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the spec really requires to be something other than an object of pity.
Edited by Randarion on 4/17/2013 2:26 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
7020
And nobody sees that as retarded design? A melee DPS that has to kite other melee like a caster because his melee potential is paltry compared to theirs. Ya that sounds like a blast!

Not only that, Ret's *giggle* 'utility' is a bad joke. So what if you can throw a nice offheal on someone every 16-18 seconds? Their opponents next attack will undo it in one. 'But we can HoP and HoS people too!' True you can...too bad Holy can do the exact same thing AND support their group 20x better, hence why they are taken and Rets considered a pariah.

Furthermore, once your opponent trinkets Rets one stun, you literally have NOTHING that forces them to pay attention to you besides long DPS CDs everyone on Azeroth can see when you use them. Ya, you might hit hard while they last, but doesn't do a fat lotta good when any smart opponent can just run away, CC you, or Ice Block/Dispersion/Deterrence/Divine Shield/etc. Too predictable and too easy to counter.

I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just trying to point out how bad Retribution actually is in comparison to other melee and how easily ranged can bend them over. Gratz on the 15% SoL buff in 5.3, but that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the spec really requires to be something other than an object of pity.


I can see where you're coming from. My main is a Warlock, so I know how easy it is to kite and kill a Ret. In its current state, Ret does take a lot of skill to be successful in PvP. If you're a good player and can get the most out of Ret, it's still an incredibly fun class and has its pluses.
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Ret is fun to play in bgs. You may not be a god dps class without gear, but once you have gear you hit for massive damage. Sustained damage is good, its just that MoP has introduced ridculous burst heals and bubbles that make us seem bad.

I just got my Tyrannical weapon and had fun with it in a couple bgs. Nice hits on people.

I will say that ret is not particularly competitive in rbgs yet. I would roll holy for that.
Edited by Cerethor on 4/17/2013 5:56 PM PDT
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1 Orc Warrior
0
And nobody sees that as retarded design? A melee DPS that has to kite other melee like a caster because his melee potential is paltry compared to theirs. Ya that sounds like a blast!

Not only that, Ret's *giggle* 'utility' is a bad joke. So what if you can throw a nice offheal on someone every 16-18 seconds? Their opponents next attack will undo it in one. 'But we can HoP and HoS people too!' True you can...too bad Holy can do the exact same thing AND support their group 20x better, hence why they are taken and Rets considered a pariah.

Furthermore, once your opponent trinkets Rets one stun, you literally have NOTHING that forces them to pay attention to you besides long DPS CDs everyone on Azeroth can see when you use them. Ya, you might hit hard while they last, but doesn't do a fat lotta good when any smart opponent can just run away, CC you, or Ice Block/Dispersion/Deterrence/Divine Shield/etc. Too predictable and too easy to counter.

I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm just trying to point out how bad Retribution actually is in comparison to other melee and how easily ranged can bend them over. Gratz on the 15% SoL buff in 5.3, but that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the spec really requires to be something other than an object of pity.


Hit the nail on the head there bro.

In all seriousness, if your geared through the teeth, world pvp and normal/random bg's are an absolute laugh. For rated play ret seriously sucks.
Rbgs - forget about them.
An elite handful got their 2200 legit, the rest are questionable.
As for arena, rets a little more solid but still rather 'lack buster'.
In a few specific comps, we are solid but que against a god comp/shatter play or a KFC and you may as well just leave.
As the poster I quoted said, the play style doesn't make sense. I enjoy the play style but I have to admit, it's seriously retarded..
It's like blizzard can't decide if we are a caster, a melee or a healer so they make us crap at all 3 and call it balanced.

Pre mop I was a 1900 arena, 2-2.1k rbgs ret.. I played since WotLK release as a ret.
5.1 I couldn't even get past 1700 on arena or rbgs..
5.2 rerolled holy (tho i still do the odd 2 a and randoms on my 2/2 ret) and mainly play my DK.
Come 5.3 I my shelve my pally for awhile..
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1 Orc Warrior
0
Ret is fun to play in bgs. You may not be a god dps class without gear, but once you have gear you hit for massive damage. Sustained damage is good, its just that MoP has introduced ridculous burst heals and bubbles that make us seem bad.

I just got my Tyrannical weapon and had fun with it in a couple bgs. Nice hits on people.

I will say that ret is not particularly competitive in rbgs yet. I would roll holy for that.


Sure, when you out gear everyone ret is very fun..
Only problem is you could say the same about every class and spec..
Once your in a setting where everyone has equal gear and similar skill, that's when rets short comings become evident.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
16685
Ret used to be my main since Vanilla, so I feel I've gotten to know it decently well. That said, while it IS very fun to play particularly now since Holy Power generation has been smoothed out, it is still an expansion behind everyone else.

Truth is, you have to play about 3x times better than someone else to have a chance of beating an equally skilled player as a Ret Paladin. I can see you're a skilled player Lobster and I salute that. But I won't say Ret can be just as good as other melee because we both know that's an outright lie, I'm simply trying to spare them the inevitable heartbreak and not repeat the mistake I made.

Retribution's biggest flaw is that the developers have still not relinquished their idea of it being a defensive support spec. I campaigned relentlessly about this since Vanilla about getting more attacks instead of Seal of Casino, getting an actual snare instead of chasing someone at 115% movement speed, and a myriad of other issues. Some have thankfully gotten resolved like the formentioned, but the spec is still lacking the tools to offensively differentiate itself from Holy.

Face it. When it really boils down to it, Retribution is nothing more than a Holy Paladin with a bigger hammer with worse surviveability and team support. As long as it shares the same kind of utility with nothing to offensively different, it will always sit in Holy's shadow and never be a serious contender.

When the defensive support concept dies with a stake in it's heart for Retribution and the developers are prepared to take bold measures to make it function like an actual melee DPS, then there will be true hope for the spec. Until then, Ret is just walking wounded...
Edited by Randarion on 4/17/2013 7:35 PM PDT
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1 Orc Warrior
0
And with what experience are you speaking from?


None, I'm a level 1 warrior.
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