Ever notice...

90 Human Rogue
12585
When in a bg 3 rogues may be, the team with them loses?

This applies to random bgs at 90, non-rated, not low level.

Have you guys ever won a bg with 3 rogues on your side at 90?
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90 Human Rogue
12480
Yes.
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
Yes.


Yes you noticed or yes you've won?

I don't think I've seen that many rogues in a bg for along time though/
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Yes, I've won. And also lost to a team that had 5 Rogues on it, I can't remember if it was AB or BFG.
Edited by Knocrogue on 4/18/2013 2:12 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
Yes, I've won. And also lost to a team that had 5 Rogues on it, I can't remember if it was AB or BFG.


Maybe it was because your team had 3 rogues on it.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Maybe it was because your team had 3 rogues on it.


Probably. haha.
Also, how come you aren't gearing your Rogue? :(
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
04/18/2013 02:29 AMPosted by Knocrogue
Maybe it was because your team had 3 rogues on it.


Probably. haha.
Also, how come you aren't gearing your Rogue? :(


It's on hold because I'm still displeased with some things, coupled with the fact that tanking has gotten me a lot of things I would never have gotten on my rogue and I'm still gearing this toon. I still like my rogue lot and will get around to gearing it once I get this toon to ilvl 510 or so. Thanks for the concern though, and if you need a tank, I'm [REDACTED]

...aaannd just noticed you're horde. god the forums can get confusing.
Edited by Sichel on 4/18/2013 2:40 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
It's on hold because I'm still displeased with some things, coupled with the fact that tanking has gotten me a lot of things I would never have gotten on my rogue and I'm still gearing this toon. I still like my rogue lot and will get around to gearing it once I get this toon to ilvl 510 or so. Thanks for the concern though, and if you need a tank, I'm [REDACTED]

...aaannd just noticed you're horde. god the forums can get confusing.


Ah! What's still displeasing?

Also, my background is red! :P
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
It's on hold because I'm still displeased with some things, coupled with the fact that tanking has gotten me a lot of things I would never have gotten on my rogue and I'm still gearing this toon. I still like my rogue lot and will get around to gearing it once I get this toon to ilvl 510 or so. Thanks for the concern though, and if you need a tank, I'm [REDACTED]

...aaannd just noticed you're horde. god the forums can get confusing.


Ah! What's still displeasing?

Also, my background is red! :P


Well I am working on a horde monk to play with my horde buddies...but it'll be an 85 twink so that I never have to regear it and can still do old instances.

This is the only time I'm gonna make a list because not only do I not feel like complaining, but rogues aren't nearly as bad as they were.

-the specs still have very little differences (I can still keep my bars with 3 macros)
-shadow blades was a terrible addition and adds no gameplay
-a couple talent tiers are still out of whack, in my opinion (deadly throw and shuriken toss in particular)
-hemorrhage still has very little clear defined usage for new players, resulting in many choosing to nixx backstab altogether
-damage is still incredibly passive
-crit chance is in the gutter. As a windwalker I have 32% crit in pvp gear and it is glorious. And there's absolutely no reason for me to have so much crit.
-sanguinary vein is dumb
-poison talents lockout and glove bonus problems/delay
-shadow walk. I know you like it. I don't, and never will in its' current implementation.

also I don't care as much for assassination anymore, but hemorrhage is incredibly gimp for the amount of soloing I do.

it's a much smaller list than my previous (and mysteriously deleted) one, and not enough to make me quit playing the class altogether. Though the crit bothers me a lot.
Edited by Sichel on 4/18/2013 3:03 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Man. Ghostcrawler teased about out passive damage. Saying that maybe Rogues should have feel of a Shotgun more than a SMG. :(
The crit thing, man I know. It's near insulting... Rogues were known as the class that always gets crits!
Those two things could really go together. Fixing our passive damage through critical strikes.

What do you mean about the poison talents lockout and glove bonus problems/delay?

Also, I really don't see what you mean with Shadow Walk! :P
It's not hindering the class in any way! It's just an additional tool at our disposal.
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
Man. Ghostcrawler teased about out passive damage. Saying that maybe Rogues should have feel of a Shotgun more than a SMG. :(


Shotgun doesn't have enough rounds. I don't like huge massive execute burst, but rather a small decent burst every few seconds (<3 rising sun kick)

What do you mean about the poison talents lockout and glove bonus problems/delay?


grabbing leeching and paralytic is generally a bad idea, and could be fixed by making leeching a passive.

Also leeching is weak and doesn't heal from poison damage, plus the 50% makes it so if you get a lucky burst and unlucky leech you lost some good potential healing.

The glove problem is the loss of crippling shiv, plus the delay to applying crippling poiison after applying another poison.

Also, I really don't see what you mean with Shadow Walk! :P
It's not hindering the class in any way! It's just an additional tool at our disposal.


it is taking a button on my bars and GOD DAMNIT I CANT HAVE THAT!

edit: also I don't even play combat and blade flurry was definitely not fixed in the right way.
Edited by Sichel on 4/18/2013 3:32 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
I'm hoping when he said Shotgun, he meant it like the way you described how Rising Sun Kick works! :P

As for the poisons, I know what you mean. But, the Shiv Leeching has saved me a few times. <.<
So, you mean Deadly Brew, right? (which is our 2pc) the Glove bonus is 1% more healing from Recuperate! And yah. That's another thing I complained about. All they'd need to do is allow Crippling to proc Mind-Numb. Easy, easy fix, yet they didn't.
I still swap out for Crippling in Strand. 70% snare on the tanks is overpowered! Well, not as much as rooting them. But, still!
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90 Orc Rogue
4130
Yes , most of the time the team without any rogue looses in my opinion and experience . Of course you gotta have good rogues that understand their roles .
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
I'm hoping when he said Shotgun, he meant it like the way you described how Rising Sun Kick works! :P


Me too, I've been thinking it wouldn't be so bad if Hemo were dropped/replaced (I'd say it makes little sense thematically, but nowadays the trees are all messed up in theme) and backstab were given a cooldown (like rising sun kick) long before I knew what rising sun kick was. would give backstab some oomph without being spammable. I'm not fond of giving energy based cooldowns, but I still think it'd be neat to try.

As for the poisons, I know what you mean. But, the Shiv Leeching has saved me a few times. <.<
So, you mean Deadly Brew, right? (which is our 2pc) the Glove bonus is 1% more healing from Recuperate! And yah. That's another thing I complained about. All they'd need to do is allow Crippling to proc Mind-Numb. Easy, easy fix, yet they didn't.


haha I seem to have missed that change. Your armory is still saying it's deadly brew though so I'm guessing it's in 5.3 or armory is bugged. not sure if crip -> MN would work out so well thanks to paralytic. you could just let it also proc both poisons' shivs. would be a rather powerful bonus that would fit with the other pvp set bonuses imo (except mine ugh). Granted now it's just a glove bonus so it'd be a bit powerful for where it is.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Me too, I've been thinking it wouldn't be so bad if Hemo were dropped/replaced (I'd say it makes little sense thematically, but nowadays the trees are all messed up in theme) and backstab were given a cooldown (like rising sun kick) long before I knew what rising sun kick was. would give backstab some oomph without being spammable. I'm not fond of giving energy based cooldowns, but I still think it'd be neat to try.


I do like Backstab being spammable. o.o
Maybe Hemo could do something like "Your next backstab deals 10% more damage, max 5 stacks."
That would really suck for PVE rotations, actually. Maybe!!
It could be: "Has a chance to invigorate you, allowing the use of Backstab regardless of position and increasing it's damage by 25%.".

That would be nice for both PVE and PVP!

haha I seem to have missed that change. Your armory is still saying it's deadly brew though so I'm guessing it's in 5.3 or armory is bugged. not sure if crip -> MN would work out so well thanks to paralytic. you could just let it also proc both poisons' shivs. would be a rather powerful bonus that would fit with the other pvp set bonuses imo (except mine ugh). Granted now it's just a glove bonus so it'd be a bit powerful for where it is.


I just mean that, if you're using Crippling Poison, it procs Mind-Numbing as well!
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
I do like Backstab being spammable. o.o
Maybe Hemo could do something like "Your next backstab deals 10% more damage, max 5 stacks."
That would really suck for PVE rotations, actually. Maybe!!
It could be: "Has a chance to invigorate you, allowing the use of Backstab regardless of position and increasing it's damage by 25%.".

That would be nice for both PVE and PVP!


Well most people who enjoyed sub before liked the complicated rotation, and no one plays it now. I suppose some others went sub for the dps it put out during DS, though.

You could alternatively have it proc ambush in some way, helping to keep the find weakness buff up and giving sub a little more to manage, as frankly its' pve rotation now is abysmally simple with the ridiculously long timers on SnD and Rupture, plus evis not refreshing rupture means you don't need to get it within that incredibly tight window just to keep rupture up and god forbid you fail it, you'd have to either skip rupture for the fight (losing dps) or put rupture back up and then get evis in time while juggling finishers (still a loss in dps, plus a hassle)

Either way, a way to use backstab or ambush from in front would be greatly appreciated for soloing purposes, as well as certain boss fights, plus it could shake up sub a bit.

Also shadow dance should remove the position requirement of ambush. in pvp your target is stunned anyway 9/10 times and in pve it hurts your dps a bit.

I just mean that, if you're using Crippling Poison, it procs Mind-Numbing as well!


What if you take paralytic? Or leeching?
Edited by Sichel on 4/18/2013 6:35 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Yah. I was mainly thinking about boss fights that you can't get behind with that other suggestion. But, it would be awesome for level too!

In relation to the Shotgun/SMG thing. Ghostcrawler also teased that maybe SnD shouldn't be global to all specs. :o
That would help with a lot of things depending on what they did with Subtlety.

As for Paralytic and Leeching, Deadly Brew currently allows them to proc Crippling Poison. So, they are already benefiting from it!
Edited by Knocrogue on 4/18/2013 6:45 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Monk
12615
In relation to the Shotgun/SMG thing. Ghostcrawler also teased that maybe SnD shouldn't be global to all specs. :o
That would help with a lot of things depending on what they did with Subtlety.


They've learned a lot of new tricks for pandaria, and I hope they put those tricks to use in making the rogue specs a lot more defined. The next class that needs definition after us would be hunters, esp surv and marks; but rogues have a lot more prestige in media that blizz could draw from to do some really awesome stuff. So here's hoping.

As for Paralytic and Leeching, Deadly Brew currently allows them to proc Crippling Poison. So, they are already benefiting from it!


I see your logic. That would have been acceptable. The 30 energy thing is nice but may have been a bit over the top, though no one will notice because they don't understand dmg/energy and mainly focus on "X SKILL HITS TOO HURD"
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90 Undead Rogue
8650
I need to find more WoW time. Working two jobs is not leaving me with much left. I haven't done a bg on Kilja in like almost a week. Horde usually wins in MG's battlegroup though so I haven't really noticed any rogue/non-rogue trends when I'm on him.
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It's because they're morons and spend all their time trying to pick off nobody scrubs to stroke their low self-esteem epeen to, instead of doing their job and assassinating flag carriers, or stealth capping flags.
Edited by Hewge on 4/18/2013 7:15 AM PDT
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