So seems druids are bad again this tier... =/

92 Troll Druid
10050
I was hearing some podcasts, for example http://teamwafflecast.com/ one about resto druids, manly because i'm again forced to play mine this tier.

When i finally gathered enough will power to reroll, and grind gear, and rep, and etc... all over again to go for a Paladin, because we were running Disc+Monk+Druid, and Disc+Monk+Pally seems far superior, our monk left us, and we could only find a Paladin as replacement...

Long story short, i need to go back to my druid.
But i was thinking... "Oh it will not be that bad, we got some buffs and all, and shamans are crying all over the forums, so we are not dead last."

Oh and that was my mistake...
Look at Raidbots Heroic modes, and see for yourselves, we are in the same spot as last tier, nothing changed.
We are dead last in many fights, and the only ones we do good monks are better.

In fact all fights shows as monk being better, with only 1 of then that we are tied with them.

I'm starting to think that 2 Paladins and 1 Priest is better then going back for this druid. =/

( Sad part for me is that we run with a paladin tank, and a warlock, so the token is already at its limit, we need a healer of another tier to balance things... =/ )

We need to make enough noisy to be herd by the devs, because if this keeps up we will have another tier being sub-par.
Edited by Sàtàn on 4/18/2013 8:14 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
5045
.............

No.......?
Reply Quote
92 Troll Druid
10050
So speaks the Priest with 0 raiding experience this tier.

Did you hear the podcast? Those were experienced druids talking.
All top raiding guilds are benching druids again.

And did you look at raidbots?

Well it seems not.

At last next time try to be constructive and give reasons to your discordance.

Btw, plz everyone report her post, we need real discussion not trolling.
Edited by Sàtàn on 4/18/2013 8:31 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
All top raiding guilds acre benching druids again.


Which you are not in. You should play what you enjoy. I recently rerolled druid and am having a blast.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
Btw, plz everyone report her post, we need real discussion not trolling.


Her post is neither trolling nor report-worthy.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
Look at Raidbots Heroic modes, and see for yourselves, we are in the same spot as last tier, nothing changed.


What variables are you looking at? Here is everything (at least for heroic modes).

10H (top 100 parses): http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/100/14/60/default/
10H (all parses): http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/14/60/default/

25H (top 100 parses): http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/
25H (all parses): http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/all/14/60/default/
Edited by Taymage on 4/18/2013 8:47 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
5045
I'm sorry. I was just in awe...

I was just so taken aback by your inability to:

1) Read raidbots correctly
2) Post logs of your fight
3) Provide a constructive argument
4) Post clear examples of weakness
5) Stop brining up a topic that has been disproved t14 and t15-- If I recall correctly, you had two very long and heated threads on this topic in t14

And for the record, I have 1/24th experience this tier. That's a whopping 4%. It's nothing to laugh at.
Edited by Naérdriel on 4/18/2013 8:49 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
He's not wrong though. Druids are viable this tier, but they're outpaced by Monks and Holy Priests. Although, Resto Druids are pretty great on H-Lei Shen for the sheer fact that they can cheese Static Shocks!
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
16290
04/18/2013 08:54 AMPosted by Ceddya
He's not wrong though. Druids are viable this tier, but they're outpaced by Monks and Holy Priests.


lol, you forgot Holy paladins.

Rdruids are dead last

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

Only 2 Rdruids ranked in any of the top 120 ranks

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Throne_of_Thunder/hps/
Reply Quote
91 Night Elf Druid
13620
lol, shamans just got buffed too.

Chain Heal had a ~18% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Earthliving had a 20% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Healing Rain had a 20% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Healing Rain now costs 36.6% of Base Mana, down from 43.1%.
Earthliving Weapon had a 20% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Shaman
HC
17450

lol, shamans just got buffed too.

Chain Heal had a ~18% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Earthliving had a 20% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Healing Rain had a 20% increase to healing and SP scaling.
Healing Rain now costs 36.6% of Base Mana, down from 43.1%.
Earthliving Weapon had a 20% increase to healing and SP scaling.


those are tooltip fixes
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
5045
Shamans have been extremely --ill equipped-- to handle a lot of the fights in t15. It's not that they were weak, it's that they had issues with the movement and spread strats.

And the buffs received were sort of a "We see you have trouble with these skills. Let's make them stronger so that when you do use them, everyone will think you're OP and get grumpy"

But I digress.

OP-- please discuss specifics strats, fights, and situations that occur in t15 that you believe highlight the issues with druids.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
those are tooltip fixes


When you getting your hair back?
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Satan... We talked about this ;) Word usage means everything! "Dead last", "bad", etc imply things that we are not.

I will say that in 10m, while raiding heroics, is utterly frustrating to me. Not because I can't pull numbers, but because of the tank healing required that I cannot provide while the raid also requires attention. A lot of the times shrooms could really mean a lot, they could have been a lifesaver to many people had they been used. But I'm finding that 50% of the time I don't have the time to place them/power them up because everyone else needs my focus. Siiigghhhhh.

There's a pattern of extreme tank damage along with extreme raid damage, and I cannot support the tank healing role well enough to keep my mana where it needs to be to be OK for the rest of the fight. We 2heal these heroics, so it's not like he and I can specifically assign a role. You just can't, you need each other's help. And, as it's been brought to my attention numerous times, every other class in my place would be able to do what I cannot PLUS some.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
STOP. LINKING. TOP. 100.

Even if there is something wrong with druids, the Raidbots links in this thread absolutely do not demonstrate its existence.

You want a spec's top performance? Try 99th percentile:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/all/14/60/p99/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

Or 95th, to remove the worst outliers:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/all/14/60/p95/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

I suppose you could look at the median to see how the 'average' druid is performing:
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/all/14/60/median/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

...but then you have to acknowledge that median HPS isn't a good predictor of the value of a spec in HM raids, because holy priests top that measure by a pretty big margin, and we're still the least represented.

You also have to acknowledge that top performance doesn't do a good job of predicting how a spec will perform in most raids - both druids and monks have outstanding potential throughput that's suppressed in the average raid.

In any case, I think Fleurs' discussion of the mechanical issues with the spec is probably the most productive thing happening in this thread (or any recent druid thread).
Edited by Kaels on 4/18/2013 9:23 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
04/18/2013 09:19 AMPosted by Aliyah
When I did the newly opened last part of ToT this week in LFR.


ToT this week in LFR


LFR
Reply Quote
92 Troll Druid
10050
Ok, lets start to show raid bot numbers to people that fail to know how to use it:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Jin'rokh_the_Breaker/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
- Jin'rokh we rank 4, ~8% behind Monks, and 16.4% behind Priests the first one.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Horridon/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
- Horridon, we rank 5, ~5% behind Monks, and ~30% behind Priests.

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Council_of_Elders/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
- Council, we rank 6 the last, ~15% behind Monks, and ~17% behind Priests

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Tortos/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
- Tortos, we rank 2!!, but 17% behind Monks... =X

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Megaera/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
- Megaera, we are last again, 3% behind Monks and 17% behind Paladins

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Ji-Kun/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
- Ji-Kun, we rank 4, monks are 3% behind us in this fight, and 15% behind Priests

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Durumu_the_Forgotten/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
Durumu, again we are dead last, 9% behind Monks, and 23% behind Priests

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Primordius/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
Primordius, we rank 4, 2% behind monks, and 16% behind priests

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Qon/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
Iron Qon, we rank 5, 13% behind monks, the top healing class for this fight.

Now let look at number of rankings each class has:

Monk
1- 2
2- 1
3- 2
4- 1
5- 3
6- 0
Overall: 4

Druid
1- 0
2- 1
3- 1
4- 3
5- 2
6- 3
Overall: 5

Priest Disc
1- 5
2- 0
3- 2
4- 1
5- 1
6- 0
Overall: 1

Priest Holy
1- 1
2- 2
3- 3
4- 1
5- 2
6- 0
Overall: 3

Shaman
1- 0
2- 1
3- 1
4- 0
5- 1
6- 6
Overall: 6

Paladin
1- 1
2- 4
3- 1
4- 3
5- 0
6- 0
Overall: 2

Now go for top 75 Percentile, and see Druid dropping and shaman rising alittle.
Go for top 100 and we are more or less tied with the Shamans.

And everyone knows they bring far better utilities then us, manly because we have nothing really unique.

There is little use to us over a Monk any day on 10m.

And all i linked here is 10m.
Let alone 25m, where we are dead last more times then shamans are. =X
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
A lot of the times shrooms could really mean a lot


Three GCD and static placement makes it crappy. I still use it, but there is way too much set up time for the reward.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
04/18/2013 09:18 AMPosted by Fleurs
There's a pattern of extreme tank damage along with extreme raid damage, and I cannot support the tank healing role well enough to keep my mana where it needs to be to be OK for the rest of the fight.


That's not an issue that's faced by Druids. Holy Priests and Monks have arguably worse tank healing than Resto Druids since they don't have Lifeblooms or clearcasted Regrowths/NS for the tanks.

You also have to acknowledge that top performance doesn't do a good job of predicting how a spec will perform in most raids - both druids and monks have outstanding potential throughput that's suppressed in the average raid.


This isn't true. If you look at logs during specific high damage phases whereby very heals are much less likely to be sniped, you'd find that Holy Priests and Monks are pulling much higher sustained numbers than Druids.
Edited by Ceddya on 4/18/2013 9:29 AM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]