So seems druids are bad again this tier... =/

100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
04/18/2013 01:10 PMPosted by Kaels
Some sort of visual indication of the range would also be welcome


The range is 8 yards right? Might be nice if the range was a bit bigger.
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90 Tauren Druid
10635
04/18/2013 11:04 AMPosted by Sàtàn
You need to waste 1 sec to place each rejuvenation, you need 10 sec to cover the entire raid, for a total of 87k of mana.


Rejuve is on a .5 sec GCD, actually, so 5 sec to blanket a 10 man raid. Just throwing that out there.

EDIT: It is 1 sec. My point is moot.
Edited by Moggsy on 4/18/2013 6:31 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
20825
I still want to see:

T14 4 set built in - Keep WG and SM to lineup! This also helps our HPS a bit! Especially with SoTF.

WM - ONE GCD to place. I still find mushrooms too clunky/pointless to ever use!

Innervate down to a 2 min CD.

These 3 changes would please me so much xD
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100 Troll Druid
10370
You need to waste 1 sec to place each rejuvenation, you need 10 sec to cover the entire raid, for a total of 87k of mana.


Rejuve is on a .5 sec GCD, actually, so 5 sec to blanket a 10 man raid. Just throwing that out there.


Err... No?

It is reduced by 0.5 sec, that means its a 1sec GCD for us, and is not changed by Haste.
If we had 0.5sec gcd reju we would be abit better.
Edited by Sàtàn on 4/18/2013 6:13 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
13940
You still have IB or Deterrence. Barkskin is still 20% DR more than what most healers have. I wouldn't discount the usefulness of having a personal CD on a 1 min timer.


It's 45s last I looked at it; used to be 1 min though.. not sure when that changed, but I was certainly pleasantly surprised.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
19310
Fleurs is your druid, right? Or are you guys running in different raids? She discussed one of the issues with mushrooms here:


Yes she is :p. Her and I view things a little different but overall we're on the same page. She just wants them to be a little less clunky, I can agree to maybe 1 shroom and put detonate on the GCD. But I don't think I can give my opinion of support on being able to move them(She didn't suggest it, but I know others who have).
Edited by Sensations on 4/18/2013 10:55 PM PDT
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I'm not certain what the solutions are, since what I see wrong maybe incorrect due to being in a fairly non progressed raid group. :)

Mushrooms, I do find lots of use for, however much of the time they end up in the wrong place in the long run, or by the time they are charged they are in a lonely place. I think many times I used all those gcd's to either not heal anything or they went to over heal on that one full health guy that was in range when the rest were low health and not in range.

Last night I was having a lot of issues with Tank healing while the raid was taking a lot of damage. My overall numbers were not bad, but it was very rough due to the way I was healing. When the tank takes a lot of really big hits often-I switch lifebloom from tank to tank, ironbark when up, toss a rejuve and then spam regrowth. Spamming regrowth is expensive and seems wrong. It's the equivalent of spamming flash of light or flash heal or healing surge. With it being glyphed, as I believe most druids do it's the best we have for a tank who will die without a lot of direct heals. Nourish is too little with too long of a cast time. Healing touch saves an almost insignificant amount of mana for heal which does about the same but won't definitely proc living seed. If shrooms were full I would use them on the tank as well as natures swiftness. It just seems clunky. If I were on my shaman and a tank was taking a lot of damage, I would riptide and spam with greater healing wave, only if super bad, would I toss a healing surge. Now this isn't to say shaman are better, for they have their own downfalls, however I use this example because tank healing seems smoother.

Clearcasting I believe purposely only procs when everyone is at full health. :) so it's used to refresh lifebloom and/or keep up harmony. I'm kidding of course, however rng seems to work it that way often enough to make it not something you would count on for lowering mana costs.

Sorry for the book.

oregano
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
You pretty much said the same thing I did. I can agree with a lot of what you said. HT is basically only ever used for NS, otherwise it's regrowth spam. And that is so mana taxing there's no way to see it through to the end if forced into doing that. And the fact that our ONLY source of a quick mana return is on a 3min CD, we are screwed if we have to keep dishing out massive heals.

Spirit is the only thing we have to fall back on, and that's simply not enough half the time-- let's not mention that spirit stacking can hinder us in the long run since our hots already heal for such a small portion. We don't gain mana by spending mana like disc priests, we don't gain mana by meleeing, or by critting like paladins and shamans.

Put Innervate on 2m CD or let Clearcasting stack + proc more.

Although, these suggestions won't be the fixes to the glaring issues w/ our toolkit. Just go look at some logs, druids have Rejuv as their top heal by ~30% half the time, ranging from 30-50% of their total healing done. I know for a fact that on Tortos I had Rejuv doing 55% of my healing.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
A reduction of the 3-GCD time commitment for placing them would probably be a big help


A reduction of the 3-GCD time commitment for placing them would probably be a big help


A reduction of the 3-GCD time commitment for placing them would probably be a big help


Stuff gets crazy in some of these fights and spending 3 globals to put them down is often dangerous.

The cooldown needs to be increased on the detonate though. 10 seconds is ridiculous. Make this like a 1 minute cooldown minimum. Since the stored healing carries over when you replace them (I don't believe this is a bug?) then as a moveable 1 drop shroom with a 1 minute cooldown it seems fair.
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5 Human Warlock
0
Just need more cheesy fights like heroic Tortos where we are somewhat desirable. Maybe next raid zone will favor shaman and druids lol. Let's see, just gotta give shaman perma-SWG. That would be awesome.
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[quoteAlthough, these suggestions won't be the fixes to the glaring issues w/ our toolkit. Just go look at some logs, druids have Rejuv as their top heal by ~30% half the time, ranging from 30-50% of their total healing done. I know for a fact that on Tortos I had Rejuv doing 55% of my healing.][/quote]

You know, I don't really mind rejuv being roughly 30 percent most of the time (which made me go look at logs and ya it is). It's a great spell. A lot of priests have 30% atonement and then when you add in divine aegis well atonement counts for a lot. Healing rain is probably about 30%, pallys have their mastery doing about the same. So I imagine it's all about the same. I like rejuv because we get to pick exactly who to put it on unlike some of those other spells.

Now with that said, I don't know what it looks like in a 25 man, it might be out of control rejuv spam and not enough usage of other spells that would be useful.

Your innvervate/clearcasting stack is a great idea. Clearcasting the winner because the innervate would only encourage more rejuvs. (Like I said I love it, but too much of a good thing and all)
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
You know, I don't really mind rejuv being roughly 30 percent most of the time (which made me go look at logs and ya it is). It's a great spell. A lot of priests have 30% atonement and then when you add in divine aegis well atonement counts for a lot. Healing rain is probably about 30%, pallys have their mastery doing about the same. So I imagine it's all about the same. I like rejuv because we get to pick exactly who to put it on unlike some of those other spells.

Now with that said, I don't know what it looks like in a 25 man, it might be out of control rejuv spam and not enough usage of other spells that would be useful.

Your innvervate/clearcasting stack is a great idea. Clearcasting the winner because the innervate would only encourage more rejuvs. (Like I said I love it, but too much of a good thing and all)

I guess it's a personal preference, I find nothing stimulating about rejuv spamming. At least with atonement healing you can make the choice to use Archangel and dish out some stronger heals or to continue DPSing/healing. Even if disc priests rely heavily on atonement healing, it's not all there is to them. Whereas druids... They only have rejuv. Raid damage? Rejuv. Tank damage? Rejuv. Spot heals needed? Rejuv. =\
Edited by Fleurs on 4/19/2013 1:22 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
14025
I guess it's a personal preference, I find nothing stimulating about rejuv spamming. At least with atonement healing you can make the choice to use Archangel and dish out some stronger heals or to continue DPSing/healing. Even if disc priests rely heavily on atonement healing, it's not all there is to them. Whereas druids... They only have rejuv. Raid damage? Rejuv. Tank damage? Rejuv. Spot heals needed? Rejuv. =\


It's not even really the fun aspect - that's important (this is a game after all) but also the fact that Resto Druids really can't/don't vary their healing much based on damage output. I'm ignoring the mushroom mechanic for a moment.

As a Holy Paladin, I always see adding more regen as adding the ability to cast more spells later in the fight, and be less stingy with my casts and mana usage. We'll never stack enough regen to the moon to be able to cast non-stop, not would we want to be able to. We can back off on regen if we find that adding more throughput stats in its place is a more reasonable idea (this is becoming more and more common as gear levels increase now).

Speaking to and looking at Resto Druids, their mana costs and regen absolutely do not function that way. It's not quite as blatant as their healing having an on/off switch, but... it's fairly close. They have a regen/spirit minimum, you should probably go a bit over it just in case, and anything past that is silly unnecessary unless you're spamming Regrowth outside of clearcasting procs all the time.

I actually would view this as a problem, and I'm not sure why Blizzard has been so insistent on making Druid mana totally different than every other healers' in both Cata and MoP.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
Druids really can't/don't vary their healing much based on damage output


I think the only major variance is efflorescence being useful on stack a long with mushrooms. Otherwise it's just rejuv and throw a WG if you have time before needing to regrowth the tank.
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I think it would be difficult to add a lot of variety to druid healing, due to the babysitting requirements of lifebloom and harmony. If they made some spells less clunky, mushrooms and reliance on clearcasts it would be nice to see some added mechanics, that added more choices in the way we heal.

We don't only use rejuv, we use swiftmend, wild growth, regrowth, shrooms. However we have nourish and healing touch that are left useless. Since we do have a limited range of tools it would be nice to see them all be useful and used regularly. If nourish and healing touch had their place it's another way to keep up our lifebloom and add another choice to healing.

probably a terrible idea, but I like the idea of stacking hots on people, maybe yet another lifebloom glyph that alows you to break lifebloom up. So instead of stacking 3 on the tanks, if there is little tank damage you can put one on 3 different people. probably not worth it for as little as little as they heal though. But maybe then it would be worth letting them bloom. shrug
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
I was hearing some podcasts, for example http://teamwafflecast.com/ one about resto druids, manly because i'm again forced to play mine this tier.

When i finally gathered enough will power to reroll, and grind gear, and rep, and etc... all over again to go for a Paladin, because we were running Disc+Monk+Druid, and Disc+Monk+Pally seems far superior, our monk left us, and we could only find a Paladin as replacement...

Long story short, i need to go back to my druid.
But i was thinking... "Oh it will not be that bad, we got some buffs and all, and shamans are crying all over the forums, so we are not dead last."

Oh and that was my mistake...
Look at Raidbots Heroic modes, and see for yourselves, we are in the same spot as last tier, nothing changed.
We are dead last in many fights, and the only ones we do good monks are better.

In fact all fights shows as monk being better, with only 1 of then that we are tied with them.

I'm starting to think that 2 Paladins and 1 Priest is better then going back for this druid. =/

( Sad part for me is that we run with a paladin tank, and a warlock, so the token is already at its limit, we need a healer of another tier to balance things... =/ )

We need to make enough noisy to be herd by the devs, because if this keeps up we will have another tier being sub-par.

it's just you, my guilds healer is undergeared and performs extremely well
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100 Troll Druid
10370

it's just you, my guilds healer is undergeared and performs extremely well


You mean Combatlog?
http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/kil'jaeden/combatlog/

I love Raid Bots, Epeen bot, because it destroys this kind of mindless thinking.

Hes far below average in most fights.
The numbers he produce is indeed lower then what i can do.

Let's look at this week log of yours:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-glng8ns439rmcush/sum/healingDone/?s=7091&e=7583 - Horridon, 18.3k HPS, dead last at the heal, last by far to the pally tank.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-glng8ns439rmcush/sum/healingDone/?s=8371&e=8646 - Council, 44,4k HPS, dead last at the heal.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-glng8ns439rmcush/sum/healingDone/?s=8960&e=9195 - Tortos, 48kk HPS, more or less tied with shaman, lost by far to Monk at 82k.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-glng8ns439rmcush/sum/healingDone/?s=10096&e=10478 - Maegara , 60k HPS, again the last...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-glng8ns439rmcush/sum/healingDone/?s=10955&e=11264 - Jin-Kun, 24,3k HPS, finally he won in 1 fight with barely any damage happening.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-glng8ns439rmcush/sum/healingDone/?s=11826&e=12184 - Durumu, 33.6k HPS, second on that fight

Do i really need to keep going and find more logs?
All fights that have meaningful damage happening your druid is FAR below, and only where there is almost nothing to heal that it does something.
And even then his HPS is really bad.

My Paladin Alt, with the same ilvl them him can do over 75k HPS without any problem.

And you raid with 0 absorption class to further weaken your hot numbers.
Add to your raid a Disc Priest, or a Paladin and your druid friend will heal for nothing.

So, please stop saying what you don't know about.

Very experienced druids are finding problems with the class, hear the podcast i linked in the main post before talking non-sense, and trying to blame me for pointing my class design flaws.

It's really well know right now that we need changes.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Change mushrooms to moss and have it grow on a player. Wouldn't be so bad to use three globals and know it is going to be useful.
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