Topic BM @ Horridon: Advice appreciated.
Yes, yes, yes. Shuffle to the max! Even if you are not the active Horridon tank, it is extremely important that when it IS your turn to taunt, Shuffle is already up and going. You do not under any circumstances want to take a TP, much less any melee strikes, with it down i.e., on the swap. Pro-tip: The key is to build as much time on Shuffle as possible when you are NOT the active Horridon tank so that you can focus on Purifying or using GCDs for self-heals, or chi for Guard, etc. when he's on you.
I find it difficult at times during the initial swap to have shuffle up.
On pull the DK has horridon and I attempt to get as much shuffle as I can before first door opens up... I'm trying to use Guard and Keg Smash on cool down. I usually get really close to running low on shuffle when we swap but this coming weekend I'm gong to try instead of running to second door and waiting for Horridon to come to me, I'm going to strafe kit him with healers. I think I'll take more TP hits.. not sure how that will work out but it will make it easier to maintain enough shuffle so as to not fall off.
When we get to third door, we tend to get hit by double swipe often as the DPS stay in the frost orbs AND bring the triple swipe our way right about the time the dinomancer is landing.. making it awfully chaotic. We're working on coordinating that better.
Edited by Nietzschii on 5/1/13 12:48 PM (PDT)
You shouldn't be dying to Triple Puncture if you are doing the basics, and the healers are doing their job. Shuffle uptime should not be a problem while tanking the boss. With our group comp we have a Shaman, Druid, and Pally Healer. if using a disc priest, make sure he is specced ascension and have him dps the boss the entire time. He will out heal everyone by a long shot.
Knowing how to tank the adds, dps priority, dispels and interrupts are essential to this fight. The boss should always be tanked away from the doors to give the raid plenty of room and make add pickup easier. Build up 5 (4 w/o ascension) chi and have your Tiger Palm buff active at the beginning of the fight without taking aggro from the other tank (don't Keg Smash until you are at 3 chi, or he has adequate threat). Run toward the first door and spend the chi to start building shuffle. Shuffle can be hard to maintain on the adds.
Tanking adds: Adds always follow the same rotation for appearing. Non-elites spawn at the door, 1 elite spawns away from door but centered on the door, non-elites spawn at the door, 2 elites spawn at the right and left of the door, non-elites spawn at the door, and then the Dinomancer spawns (might be random side of the door). Start by picking up the non-elites and then back peddle a little outside the ring in the center of the door. Either be quick with a Taunt/Keg Smash or start SCK to pick up the elites then move back to the door for the second set of adds. Grab them and then move to one side of the door toward the center/side (45 degree angle roughly from the center of the door) about 10 yards from the ring. SCK to grab and elites and Taunt the far elite to you. Try and stay to one side of the door. Stop worrying about the small adds at this point once you have aggro on all the elites. The small adds should not be a raid wipe if dealt with properly. Watch for the Dinomancer and taunt him once he appears. Make sure people are interrupting the Dinomancer so he doesn't heal the boss. Someone needs to click the orb as soon as it is dropped to stop adds from coming. Keep elites near the door until dead then move on.
During the first door, follow the tanking instructions above. We have our Pally main healing the tank while our druid and shaman are on group heals and dispel duty. Dispels are essential at doors 2 & 3 and any dps with dispels should be helping. Stacks should never get above 3-5 at any 1 door. DPS priority should be the Stone Gazers, then the elites, and kill the Dino once he spawns.
During the second door, follow the tanking instructions above. We have our Shaman main healing the tank while our druid and Pally are on group heals and dispel duty. Shaman's cannot dispel poison so we chose to switch. Dispel your own poisons to allow the other healers to dispel the raid. Interupts are key on this phase. Have a dps rotation for them if you become overwhelmed. The first elite should die before the other 2 spawn. Have a designated interrupter for each when 2 spawn. DPS priority should be the Elites, then the Effusions, and then kill the Dino once he spawns.
During the third door, only worry about tanking the elites since the non-elites attack randomly. We kept our Shaman main healing the tank while our druid and Pally are on group heals and dispel duty. Shaman's cannot dispel diseases so we chose to switch. Dispel your own diseases to allow the other healers to dispel the raid. DPS priority should be the non-elites, then elites. Watch the frozen orb cats done by the elites and moves slowly away from them. Do not get hit by these as they are a Brewmaster killer. Kill the Dino once he spawns. Watch the frozen orb casts done by the elites and moves slowly away from them. Do not get hit by these as they are a Brewmaster killer.
During the fourth door, ignore the small adds once the elites pop out. We switched back to our Pally main healing the tank while our druid and Shaman are on group heals. DPS priority should be the Flame Casters (dps need to interrupt), then the Protectors, and then the elites. Be sure to tank the elites away from the group to one side of the door facing away from the group. The bear's cleave can murder non-tanks. Stay away from the totems. Kill the Dino once he spawns.
Pick up the big add, burst him down. Then go back to your normal tanking rotation every 5-7 stacks switching (or when the debuff falls off). GG WIN!
I find it difficult at times during the initial swap to have shuffle up.
You can bank the chi for the swap if you are low shuffle. Travel time for tank swap will run your shuffle out anyways. You can just start with 2 BoK and you'll have 12 seconds of shuffle right off the bat after the taunt. Also, try and swap right after a Triple Puncture, or when you know you have time for those 2 BoK's to land before he uses it.
Important lessons I learned, to recap:
- I like the haste build. A lot. It allows more chi build up. I don't feel like I'm capping energy very often with the exception of extended down-times where I'm not on anything (e.g. waiting for something to spawn). Taking Ascenion helps with this as well as allows more of a chi build up (+5 instead of +4) for BoK for shuffle. I can BoK twice, punch once and BoK again for a good amount of shuffle right off the bat
- My shuffle up time is no less than 80% but on average much higher... which while not perfect, is better and is something I'm working on still. Trying to adjust my timing.
- Glyph of Enduring Spheres is a *HUGE* deal. I hadn't been using my spheres as much as I could because they de-spawned by the time I needed them. This created a terrible habit of me ignoring them.
- Kiting Horridon along with healers instead of out-running them.
- New Meta -- went for crit instead of stam.
- Using EB more often, especially when I have a lot of adds on me or right before a Triple Puncture. It's not the TP that hurts, it's the melee hits after -- and using EB or Guard helps those A TON
- Having 16+ more seconds of Shuffle, i use guard on CD. I try to use Guard when I have 50k+ more of vengence, which I track with Weak Aura's.
- I use Weak Aura's to track Shuffle, Guard, Vengence
- I worry less about the smaller adds on door 1. There were times I would go through sand traps to pick them up but to looks like their damage isn't worth me doing through sand traps. Throw some brew on them for aggro and don't worry about it. this is just the adds after the dinomancer that i had a problem picking up due to sand traps.
- Keep banging on Horridon until the door physically opens up. throw some booze on them to get aggro and walk over to them. This helps keep a higher shuffle. I occasionally cap energy before so as to be able to throw Keg Smash on them.
- If, for some reason, I'm going to lose Shuffle and Horridon thinks I look tastey, I pop a CD -- either Dampen Harm or FB.
- I avoid picking up spheres when moving away from Double Swipe, so I can pick them up after a TP+Melee hit.
The advice y'all have given me is greatly appreciated and has helped considerably.
yeah enduring spheres is an amazing glyph. it's one of the reasons i harp on putting that glyph on when a brewmaster doesn't have it on
Yeah it's a great glyph I pretty much keep it loaded 100% of the time now. Even on fights like Lei Shen where I run back to my quadrant and see a handful of spheres hanging out there waiting for me lol.
On another amusing note it makes our 4P buff last for 4 minutes.
My 2 copper, as we use a DK and I BrM:
I go with a haste build, Celerity, Chi Wave, Leg Sweep, Dampen Harm, Chi Torpedo, no Guard Glyph.
I take MD from hunter, cast cracklin' lightning to try and cheese a couple of Chi before boss gets to me. Just before I get hit, I dampen Harm and start my normal rotation, making sure to have 1 Chi "on hold". I take the first Triple Puncture, Purify it, and DK taunts boss from me. Just the way it seems to work, with Monk mobility, I am much better at grabbing and holding adds. Use Leg Sweep just before the dinomancer drops, it makes it easier to target and taunt him. Use Dizzying Haze to pick up adds that come out from the door, and your taunt for the adds that drop furthest from you.
Transition to, and Door 2:
Before boss gets free of Door 1, I start making my way toward door 2, making sure to save 1 Chi for Purify. I taunt boss. Pally healer bubbles DK to clear his stacks, which he clicks off once stacks clear. Again, just before boss gets to me I Dampen Harm, and purify the first Triple Puncture. DK taunts boss back and I go to pick up adds. I cleanse my own poisons as often as necessary and use on other raid members if I can without missing a BOK or other "keep myself alive" ability. Use Leg Sweep just before the dinomancer drops, it makes it easier to target and taunt him. Use Dizzying Haze to pick up adds that come out from the door, and your taunt for the adds that drop furthest from you, especially the priests.
Transition to, and Door 3:
Once Boss is getting clear of door 2 (after charge), I move into position for door 3 (fairly far from the door toward the middle of the arena) with at least 1 Chi, and taunt the boss. DK is the add tank for door 3 (I was just getting hit too hard on this door). Just before boss hits me I Dampen Harm, and purify the first triple Puncture, if I get a heavy-yellow, or red stagger warning. I try to keep shuffle up always. I use elusive brew, or empowered Guard after charge for the next triple puncture. I Chi Wave on CD and try to Expel Harm after a stagger purify. If I need to I Fortify brew/Dampen Harm. The reason I pick Celerity and Chi Torpedo is so when Horridon Charges, our raid members know to run toward the Boss-tank, if it works out correctly, the boss only turns and does not move. I will Roll (Chi Torpedo) toward the raid, which heals as I move, keeping me in healing range, and then Elusive Brew, empowered Guard, and roll back away from the raid, again healing me.
Transition to, and door 4:
As boss is clearing door 3 after charge, I move toward door 4 and help with any adds still up to build up chi, and keep my Guard empowered. DK picks up boss and I add tank door 4. He keeps the boss a fair amount away from the doors, so I have enough room to move the bears as they drop. I start on the side of door 4, closer to the door 3 side and move the bears across the doorway toward door 1, keeping the bears away from the raid as best as possible.
After the final charge, I move into the middle of the arena, drop my statue and get ready for the boss. As the boss gets to me, before the first hit, I Dampen Harm, and then go into my normal rotation, trying to keep shuffle up, using Roll to move toward healers and then back away from raid. Try to keep all your CDs available, because once the sub-boss drops, you will get hit HARD. If we have any raid members down or things start to get hairy, the DK will taunt the boss and I will get bubbled. Then I hang out, dps the boss and be prepared to taunt if the DK goes down.
This strat is a little wonky, but it works for us, and about 10 or so ilvls lower than I am now, we were able to 9-man this boss, maybe RNG-blessed, but we did, and granted, we did have a hard time at first on this boss as well.
I found for me, the little bit of Chi Torpedo healing was better for us than Rushing Jade Wind for added add-dps.
Good luck, if you still need it.
I'm late to the party here, but glad you are figuring things out. Your gearing and such seems to be fixed up properly, and you hit on most of the key points of BM tanking, especially for Horridon. As you get used to the BM rotation, you could try shedding some haste for crit. But until that point where you're at is just fine.
When Horridon was progression I also tended to pop a Potion of the Mountains for the double Warbear spawn. But then again I tank the first door, so you may be on the boss for warbears, right?
Try to tank Horridon well away from the add doors so the DPS have plenty of room to move around. I usually position him parallel to the door about 50yds away from it. And it's also important that people targeted with Charge move away from the rest of the group and try to have him do double sweep parallel to the action so he isn't adding the sweep aoe to any possible sand traps or whatnot already in the area.
BM excels at taking large physical damage hits like Triple Puncture, so you should really shine in this fight. I think at your gear level I was able to go up to around 11-12 stacks of Triple Puncture during Phase5 enrage and finish the boss.
As you mentioned, the keys are using non-glyphed Guard to help soak the initial triple puncture and/or using EB just before Puncture to dodge the melee attacks around it. Glyph of Enduring Spheres is awesome and like having an extra CD or two at your disposal at all times. Dampen Harm of course should also be able to soak two of the Punctures. (Ideally should only be taking around 5-6 stacks of puncture per door) If you time it right, you can even use Zen Med to soak a Puncture. We also tend to have the current tank keep aggro until the boss moves to the next door and take that first puncture before having the other tank taunt off and begin their turn. This lets you continue to beat on the boss for Shuffle for a bit longer.
Some other random bits of Brewmastery I've learned in that fight: Keybind Detox and use it. Use it on yourself while you're tanking the boss, use it on the group when you're in between phases and cleaning up. Those diseases and poisons really hurt and anything to help your healers is good on that fight.
Dampen Harm will be up for about every door. If you're one-tanking him with the BoP trick, you can use it by Puncture 7-8 on every door.
Spec into Ring of Peace. If you're not the add tank, cast in on the add tank. This more applies to Heroic, but disarming an entire group of enemies will go a long way to helping tank adds after a Dire Call.
Similarly, Ring of Peace and Disarm are useful on Jalakk. If you disarm him before his War Cry, it'll reduce the amount of damage it does.