Resto Druids, Need to be thought out more.

(Locked)

90 Night Elf Druid
10410
04/07/2013 07:29 PMPosted by Practical
1) We have no niche that makes us stand out from other healers.


I thought that it was understood that Druids were excellent raid healers? Very few healers 'stand out' from the rest in terms of a specific niche.

2) Absorbs from Paladins/Priests eat our heals.


Only sometimes? But that's an issue that affects everyone and isn't impartial to Druids.

3) We have no immediate healing aoe spells compared to ALL healing classes.


This is the most salient point that you have, but doesn't Healing Mushrooms have burst healing?

4) We have no passive mana regen compared to other classes


You have a passive mana regen mechanic: Clearcasting.

5) T14 is currently being chosen over t15 for the 4 set bonus.
6) Mushrooms are bulky and not efficient.
7) Efflorescence is too small.


The rest of these are pretty interesting concerns though, I think.


Actually the absorbs don't affect everyone, Priest and Paladins are not really affected by it, right now in my raid I overheal by atleast 3 times the priest in our raid and i'm pulling as much HPS as him, simply due to his Shields... without his shields my HPS would most likly jump up a crap ton.

and for the OP I like the idea of working with our overhealing... make it do something more then Mushrooms... I don't have time to throw down Mushrooms during a fight and even when I do we have to move from the spot, and when I try to throw them down on the spot we are bout to move to, generally something happens and we can't move to that spot. I hate that idea... make our Overhealing go to shields (i know i know shields aren't something druids do) but i mean even if it's not shields give us something, make our overhealing go to our direct heals, Healing Touch alone would be nice... or Regrowth, something.
90 Night Elf Druid
17270
No. Omen is not dependent upon ToL to save mana. As long as you maintain a proper LB uptime you will have plenty of clearcasts. The amount of mana saved is significant all the time, not just for 30 seconds every 3 minutes.

Yes it kind of is. The way you save mana is by using Incarnation before burst phases by lifeblooming multiple people and using the clearcasting procs for Regrowth. Clearcasting by itself is kind of... eh. Considering it's for direct heals and our direct healing is not worth talking about.

We don't need a buff. Right now resto druids have some QoL issues, but throughput and regen are good.

I'm glad you think druids are decent. I don't know if that's an alt but you have only done LFR. Healing shouldn't, by no means, be judged by LFR. 25 mans are where the problem lies.

Out of all the other HPS classes (monks and shamans), we don't really bring anything to the table besides HoTs, Ironbark and Tranquility. Monks have good mana regen, can do damage while healing for a decent amount, Revival, and Zen Meditation. Shamans have Stormlash, Mana Tide Totem, Healing Tide Totem, and Spirit Link Totem. I just want a reason for druids to seem a bit desirable.

By the way, I'm not being hostile at all if I sound that way. I really apologize. I just want to get my points across.
90 Tauren Druid
8710
Just reading through the first page you'd swear the OP bought his character yesterday.
90 Troll Druid
10480
Just reading through the first page you'd swear the OP bought his character yesterday.


Because I'm trying new things? That generally means you have been playing a character for a long time. People have no reason to talk smack unless they are at the progression i'm at or exceed it. I'm open to suggestion from all druids though. Your comment however is not helpful in any way.
90 Troll Druid
10480
make our overhealing go to our direct heals, Healing Touch alone would be nice... or Regrowth, something.


I like this idea. Though, I think it would be cool to expand.

Maybe have different abilities that use the same charge power (Ovehealing) , maybe call it Photosynthesis.

Solar blessing - 15 second CD - Instantly heals 4 targets for ____HP, the heal increases to an extent of over healing

Lunar Blessing - 2 min CD - Provides a selected target with a 3% of mana regen. MUST BE FULL ON PHOTOSYNTHESIS TO USE.

Saplings x 3 - no CD - Works like current mushrooms but the druid can mobilize them so they can remain charged and be used when appropriate.

Or just increase the healing done by our direct heals based on our photosynthesis level.

These are not meant to be huge buffs, they are just meant to improve our kit. Go ahead and add to the list of ideas you'd like to see a resto druid be able to use.
Edited by George on 4/9/2013 7:52 AM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
11915
The way you save mana is by using Incarnation before burst phases by lifeblooming multiple people and using the clearcasting procs for Regrowth. Clearcasting by itself is kind of... eh. Considering it's for direct heals and our direct healing is not worth talking about.

A spell with a base cast time of 1.5 seconds that gives a 100-140k heal that also places a 30-42k buff on the target that heals them the next time they take damage is "not worth talking about"?

The heals we produce with Clearcasting and the mana saved is significant all the time.
90 Night Elf Druid
12365
Heals produced by clearcasting that go into overhealing ARE wasted. Living Seed is negligible so don't give me that nonsense.

Those of you who think that being mobile correlates to usefulness are delusional. The way things work now there's not ANY reason to bring a druid over a paladin or a disc priest. The state of healing right now is sad. Absorbs account for over half the healing done on a given fight, and in a Paladin's case, the absorb is completely arbitrary. They spend zero extra globals doing a large portion of their healing.
90 Night Elf Druid
17270
Heals produced by clearcasting that go into overhealing ARE wasted. Living Seed is negligible so don't give me that nonsense.

Those of you who think that being mobile correlates to usefulness are delusional. The way things work now there's not ANY reason to bring a druid over a paladin or a disc priest. The state of healing right now is sad. Absorbs account for over half the healing done on a given fight, and in a Paladin's case, the absorb is completely arbitrary. They spend zero extra globals doing a large portion of their healing.

Thank you.
90 Troll Druid
11860
Heals produced by clearcasting that go into overhealing ARE wasted. Living Seed is negligible so don't give me that nonsense.

Those of you who think that being mobile correlates to usefulness are delusional. The way things work now there's not ANY reason to bring a druid over a paladin or a disc priest. The state of healing right now is sad. Absorbs account for over half the healing done on a given fight, and in a Paladin's case, the absorb is completely arbitrary. They spend zero extra globals doing a large portion of their healing.


That depends on 25/10 raiding.

LS isn't ever negligible in 10s if you're casting OOC procs on your tanks. Absorbs mean little two healing with a pally because a strong druid can still compete and this is a fact. In fact being mobile reduces a pally's Illuminated Healing being spread out in 10 man.
90 Worgen Druid
11830
Under no circumstance has haste (5320)> mastery. It has been theoretically and realistically proven. Mastery is just too good than an extra tick. You can be all huffy and puffy but you need to understand this. You can make any excuse you want for your numbers... All except for your mastery uptime. That just comes down to your playstyle. Just because you went for a different playstyle you are still underutilizing your bread and butter.

Druid in every aspect of the game hasnt changed since vanilla. We will forever be this clunky toon. We have the ability to do it all but be masters of none. Maybe overhealing is our "niche" as you call it we top em off toon. Our burst heal is weak, but arent there other classes that do that already? How does having an ability like that help us "stand out".

You do bring some factual points of t15 being straight poop, but so was t14... So where is ur complaint... I since moving raid groups have yet to heal normal tot but we do have a resto druid in our group outhealing a disc priest and a shaman. As well thry have progressed to be 9/12 so there are numbers and progression to prove druids have the power to hold their own.

I will be frank... If resto druids really had the same amount of gripe against the class like you do; then where are they? Really... We are not that bad off. Some mechanics need to be evaluated, but lets remember we have that awesome gem coming with our legendary... Think about if we had that gem and even one of your suggestion... Think how OP we would be... An empending nurf waiting to incur.

Come on tier... !@#$ comes and goes every few months. Itll change. Why complain when tier is exactly what its name suggests... A tier BONUS. If the tier is what makes or breaks you as a player, then i suggest that class is not for you.

Overhealing!?!? Sounds like your jealous of absorb damage. Maybe you should play holy pally and disc priest... Disc is a no numbers class... If a disc priest with similair ilvl outheals a resto druid... There is a provlem with you

If you picked healing to try and pull "numbers" then again you have chosen the wrong role. Your job is to keep other people alive so they can pull the "numbers" that really matter. Your job is support. Stop thinking your a dps and just heal.

Lastly, if your apart of a regular raid group, progressing with your group quit complaining. Seriously!?!? Your not being replaced by someone else, and your apart of a progression group.

TL;DR- some good points more bad points. If you go back through just your own comments you argue with yourself more than anyone and defeat your own argument. and your toon name is not very entertaining... Its like you didnt even try and give it any thought :-p

Cheers
Edited by Skyotter on 4/9/2013 7:00 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
12365
LS isn't ever negligible in 10s if you're casting OOC procs on your tanks. Absorbs mean little two healing with a pally because a strong druid can still compete and this is a fact. In fact being mobile reduces a pally's Illuminated Healing being spread out in 10 man.


In case you're new to the whole "MoP thing," Paladins have as much healing on the move as druids and the majority of that mobility comes from free (zero mana cost) spells.

As to your other point, I'm usually the third healer in our group now that we found a reliable disc priest, so I've gone to balance. On this particular night our Paladin was MIA so we two-healed the rest priest/druid. Over the course of the night living seed accounted for less than 4% of my total healing.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5871w2y1u0fq211o/details/3/
90 Troll Druid
10480
04/09/2013 07:15 PMPosted by Camisae
LS isn't ever negligible in 10s if you're casting OOC procs on your tanks. Absorbs mean little two healing with a pally because a strong druid can still compete and this is a fact. In fact being mobile reduces a pally's Illuminated Healing being spread out in 10 man.


In case you're new to the whole "MoP thing," Paladins have as much healing on the move as druids and the majority of that mobility comes from free (zero mana cost) spells.

As to your other point, I'm usually the third healer in our group now that we found a reliable disc priest, so I've gone to balance. On this particular night our Paladin was MIA so we two-healed the rest priest/druid. Over the course of the night living seed accounted for less than 4% of my total healing.

Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5871w2y1u0fq211o/details/3/


This.
90 Worgen Druid
10530
If you picked healing to try and pull "numbers" then again you have chosen the wrong role. Your job is to keep other people alive so they can pull the "numbers" that really matter. Your job is support. Stop thinking your a dps and just heal.


This isn't a discussion about purely being low in numbers but more so about viability. This is coming from a 25 man PoV But as it sits Resto druids output and raid utility is rather lacking with little incentive aside from our ability to heal on the go to bring a Resto druid to an encounter over all of the other healing classes.
Edited by Deathbydruid on 4/10/2013 12:30 PM PDT
8 Human Paladin
0
Simple fix really... Remove mushrooms from the game. They never really worked well.

Replace the overheal charges mushrooms mechanic with Overheal places a damage shield on target up to healers max hp.

Easy change, and druids will shine again.
90 Troll Druid
11860
04/09/2013 07:15 PMPosted by Camisae
As to your other point, I'm usually the third healer in our group now that we found a reliable disc priest, so I've gone to balance. On this particular night our Paladin was MIA so we two-healed the rest priest/druid. Over the course of the night living seed accounted for less than 4% of my total healing.


LS is an addition to stronger RGs and isn't suppose to be topping the spell ladder but 2-5% on individual encounters isn't even close to being "insignificant". You did in fact hit 5% on Dark Animus and 4% on Tortos and for the other bosses it varied but at a lower range.

Plus what exactly are you gong to put in it's place that grants that much healing? Absolutely nothing and I'll take .1% over nothing.

When a trinket provides us with 2-4% extra healing we don't call that insignificant. If that same trinket was doing <1% then we certainly would be right discounting it altogether (Like that Hydra Spawn crap).
Edited by Moophious on 4/10/2013 1:31 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
11860
This.
George,

Are you trying to make a point about something meaningful here because I don't get what that is exactly?

Your whole reason for not using the glyph of RG was for the added RG tick and the flexibility of having another SM target.

Now, please show us how that tick compares to LS's healing because that's your argument with this part of the discussion.

And again, LS isn't a main spell it's an additional heal granted by another condition i.e. crit so of course it's going to be much lower but at least it's guaranteed and I can tell you beats that minor tick healing.
Edited by Moophious on 4/10/2013 1:33 PM PDT
90 Tauren Druid
9425
Maybe have different abilities that use the same charge power (Ovehealing) , maybe call it Photosynthesis


Very interesting.

So I've been messing around with Pet Battles lately (not feeling the need to cap out VP every week has freed up loads of time). My Sinister Squashling has a "plant" ability ... the way it works for him is that he plants his roots. During that time, he can't be swapped out, but when he uproots himself, he gets a heal that grows stronger every turn he remains planted.

I don't know how I'd see it working for resto druids, but we're trees, even if we're not shapeshifted to the old fashioned ToL form. Spitballing here ...

Allow resto druids to root themselves. During this time, we can't move, but during this time, we build up buff stacks. A stack is added every 3 seconds, can stack upto 10 times (so to get a full stack, you're staying still for 33 seconds -- no stack is added immediately). That buff reduces cast time by ... let's say 5% per stack ... so if you root yourself fully, RG is a .75 second cast. Or something. When we uproot, we take damage that increases with every stack of rooting -- that way there's a cost for the benefit. If that's too big a cost for the benefit of faster RGs, maybe we'd get an additional spell ... or perhaps we give off a "healing aura" of a 10 yard radius that heals for X per stack.

I like this because it's situational -- you have to take the risk of planting yourself so as to be in range of whoever you need to heal, knowing that if you have to move, you hurt yourself. But you gain throughput and naturally heal those around you.

Or going with the Photosynthesis idea ... so Monks have those Statues ... what if we placed a Sunbeam. Going into the sunbeam increases our healing, or lets WG hit an extra target, or something.
90 Troll Druid
10480
Now, please show us how that tick compares to LS's healing because that's your argument with this part of the discussion.


I was agreeing that our niche is fading. Holy pallys are also very mobile, have shields and can blanket with 1 cast. For example on high mobile fights such as tortos, druids aren't even close to top, priest and pallies are. Why would a raid ever take a druid over a priest/pally? They are becoming even more viable. And we are losing what makes us special. You can continue to argue that druids are in a good place, but i am standing by with what i stated, we are losing the nice that we are supposed to bring to raids.

I talked to some people from Blood Legion, they aren't using a Resto druid or Resto shaman.... Why? Because other healers are filling the roles druids once filled.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not re-rolling, and I am still raiding as resto, its just we are going on a bad path.

I would love for anyone who wants to discuss 1 on 1 to add me on btag Calypso#1312. Maybe we will hop in mumble.
Edited by George on 4/10/2013 3:22 PM PDT
Simple fix really... Remove mushrooms from the game. They never really worked well.

Replace the overheal charges mushrooms mechanic with Overheal places a damage shield on target up to healers max hp.

Easy change, and druids will shine again.


/thread
90 Troll Druid
10480
Simple fix really... Remove mushrooms from the game. They never really worked well.

Replace the overheal charges mushrooms mechanic with Overheal places a damage shield on target up to healers max hp.

Easy change, and druids will shine again.


More shields? Nty.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]