An honest question to normal mode raiders:

90 Human Warrior
15460
This post should pretty much apply to any guild who didn't start the tier with an H Sha of Fear kill, the guilds who started between 495-505 ilevels on the tier.

Does anyone else feel like the first two wings had bosses that were -significantly- harder than the bosses in the latter two wings (excluding Lei Shen, beautifully designed fight BTW)?

Horridon wasn't -that- bad prenerf but Council without the gear to properly zerg Sul down felt like hell, and also took my guild the most number of wipes (we wiped to prenerf Council more than Durumu through Consorts).

We didn't even arrive at Megaera before the major HP nerf, but killed it before the damage nerf and felt like this was the most difficult numbers check in the entire instance before Lei Shen and I can only imagine how awful this gear check boss was with an extra 14m HP tacked on to each head.

Anyone else feel this way?
Edited by Risokyo on 4/10/2013 4:38 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
14275
I killed everything pre-nerf on normal i guess? But i would have to agree the only bosses that were harder in the latter wings *Excluding Lei shen* was Drumuru and Dark Animus ( Mainly because of trash before it).
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
15460
Because !@#$ that trash, it's harder than Dark Animus itself.
Reply Quote
100 Human Priest
17980
Agreed, the back half seems easier than the front half.

Horridon (pre nerf), Tortos, and Durumu took us the most attempts. Both Horridon and Tortos took more than Durumu. Megaera took 9, Council 6, Ji Kun 6, Jin Rokh 4.

Primordius took us 2 attempts, Dark Animus 4, Iron Qon 2, and we would have killed Twin Consorts on the 2nd attempt if we didnt have a dps DC halfway through (and not come back on causing us to call it anight)
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warrior
14210
no, not significantly
Reply Quote
10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
hmm...kinda hard to say, difficulty varies a lot once you start getting 522+ gear. horridon is tricky until people figure out add priority, or that the hardest part is the adds and not the boss. tortos can one shot the raid if you mess up so thats a little unforgiving as well. council gets easier with gear as well as you can nuke sul down faster (and only his empowerment sucks).

the last few bosses (minus lei shen) are probably more forgiving, although still require you to be on your game.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
11380
I don't get what blizzard was thinking making bosses 2,3,4 so hard. Each encounter feels tuned really tight and they are very very unforgiving. They feel like Cata heroic encounters. This in my opinion will drive the lesser skilled raid teams into LFR casuals or quit organized raiding altogether.
I'm all for tough bosses but they needed to be further along in the dungeon not in the first wing. I'm already starting to see these encounters eating guilds and maybe that was blizzards intent to break up so many of the 10 man raid teams in order to concentrate skilled players back into the same raid teams.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
12685
People who are complaining about the first few bosses, You will down them once or twice than they'll become such a joke not just because of gear but because of your raids understanding of the mechanics.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13720
Because !@#$ that trash, it's harder than Dark Animus itself.


You know by now which ones attack at close range and which ones attack at a distance, and that they are susceptible to cc, right? ;)
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
15460
bout the first few bosses, You will down them once or twice than they'll become such a joke not just because of gear but because of your raids understanding of the mechanics


Right, but the learning curve of those mechanics in addition to the gear check (you can't say with a straight face to people < 500 ilvl the fight operates the same way) seem steeper than say, Primordius, Iron Qon and Consorts. I have asked raid leaders across realms about these bosses and every single one is the same thing: "Yeah, we 1 shot Primordius/Iron Qon/Consorts". On the flip side, no one has ever said the same thing like that about bosses in the first two wings, with Jin'rokh being the exception.

You know by now which ones attack at close range and which ones attack at a distance, and that they are susceptible to cc, right? ;)


Of course, but that doesn't make that trash an insufferable pain in the !@# every week compared to the boss itself :/
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
13500
(removed at request of OP)
Edited by Osmeric on 4/10/2013 6:41 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
15460
Five weeks into T14: 22K guilds had downed Feng.

Five weeks into T15: 13K guilds have downed Horridon.

I find their design strategy for raids in this expansion to be incomprehensible from a business point of view.


I'd rather not turn this into a "why raiders resort to LFR" thread. Keep it a discussion of whether or not 1st half bosses were seemingly harder than 2nd half bosses, and why your guild thought which was harder.
Reply Quote
10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
i wouldnt say the early bosses are too hard, but relative difficulty seems inconsistent. it's the same reason people got stuck at garalon, but could faceroll terrace after getting empress down. the fights are doable, but stuff like horridon/tortos seems to be a wall for the average guild.

these arent overtuned or anything, far from it: they just seem relatively harder than some of the fights that come after them. at least as far as coordination goes (ie: horridon/durumu compared to say, primordius/animus)
Edited by Sanctifìed on 4/10/2013 6:59 AM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Troll Mage
16470
Idk we have spent about the same amount of time on most of the bosses. There is a factor that is very important in a thread like this and thats that a group/player is getting more gear every week so the later boss fights could feel easier even if they are tuned to around the same level.
Reply Quote
10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
Idk we have spent about the same amount of time on most of the bosses. There is a factor that is very important in a thread like this and thats that a group/player is getting more gear every week so the later boss fights could feel easier even if they are tuned to around the same level.


yeah, thats the thing. it's hard to judge overall difficulty due to upgrades/gearing: by the time you get to the later bosses you have a lot more gear, so it can seem a lot easier.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
15460
Idk we have spent about the same amount of time on most of the bosses. There is a factor that is very important in a thread like this and thats that a group/player is getting more gear every week so the later boss fights could feel easier even if they are tuned to around the same level.


Absolutely, and I feel that this is for the most part true, but the thing is:

Shouldn't the bosses later in the instance also be tuned towards the gear that you're earning? Like for example, 1st wing tuned to < 500, 2nd wing tuned for 500-505, etc?

Or should the whole instance just feel ridiculously easy even if you can "farm" 4-5 bosses on a weekly basis?
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
14750
People who are complaining about the first few bosses, You will down them once or twice than they'll become such a joke not just because of gear but because of your raids understanding of the mechanics.

This. We were 12/12N and 2/6H MSV in T14 and I was at 495 ilvl starting T15, pretty close to the rest of our 10-man group. Horridon was pretty tough the first week and we spent several hours on him. The second week we one-shotted him (pre-nerf).
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
21475
Pre nerf Horridon, Tortos, and Durumu have been the only bosses to take more than 20 attempts for my guild. Council was easy even if Sul got empowered, 4 healing Megaera made even the pre damage nerf version a joke. Primordius just seems like it needs more HP, and I'm pretty sure my guild died more times to Dark Animus' trash than we did to the boss. Assuming we don't derp on easy mechanics, we should get Qon and Consorts tonight as well. Very strange difficulty curve so far.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warlock
14465
There are several walls in the tier, and there isn't a lot of consistency. Council is the first wall you should really be experiencing. Durumu is the next, maybe Meg. Dark Animus is possibly another wall, and then you should cruise to Lei Shen.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Mage
16470
04/10/2013 07:10 AMPosted by Risokyo
Idk we have spent about the same amount of time on most of the bosses. There is a factor that is very important in a thread like this and thats that a group/player is getting more gear every week so the later boss fights could feel easier even if they are tuned to around the same level.


Absolutely, and I feel that this is for the most part true, but the thing is:

Shouldn't the bosses later in the instance also be tuned towards the gear that you're earning? Like for example, 1st wing tuned to < 500, 2nd wing tuned for 500-505, etc?

Or should the whole instance just feel ridiculously easy even if you can "farm" 4-5 bosses on a weekly basis?


I certainly agree with you in that the bosses should be a bit tougher as you progress.

Just mentioned that is a factor people should consider if they weren't already.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]