Feelings on this WoW Insider article?

90 Draenei Shaman
14085
Then you are ignoring the context instead of actually listening.


I know the context of the exchange. That doesnt change the fact from a purely emotional point of view Vol'jin's reply is quite callous and something that would make an Alliance person balk. Which add to the fact the rebellions is not in a position to just run the show as they please makes me hope(and that hope will become a reality) to actually rebut his statement.
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Ferlion, I basically agree with you, but will nitpick a little bit about Varian's negotiations with Silvermoon as exceeding his SAC authority.

There is real life historical precedent for this. Since everybody likes Ike, then the Darlan deal suggests itself. Ike took a ton of flak for it, though.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
Its purely military. They have answer it several times.


They've said it, but it hasn't always been shown as such in game. Blood in the Snow is a good step, but that doesn't necessarily erase the other things he's done that weren't purely military.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
They've said it, but it hasn't always been shown as such in game. Blood in the Snow is a good step, but that doesn't necessarily erase the other things he's done that weren't purely military.


Personally I think its impossible to try and separate politics and military matters fully. For example, the blood elves, getting them to join has both political and military aspect to it. Same with how to deal with the sha.

However I dont see Varian every dealing with more domestic issue of the various races. Like taxes, agriculture, industry etc.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325


Personally I think its impossible to try and separate politics and military matters fully. For example, the blood elves, getting them to join has both political and military aspect to it. Same with how to deal with the sha.


Which is a problem. He shouldn't be making those kinds of decisions for everyone.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
04/15/2013 12:40 PMPosted by Zerde
They've said it, but it hasn't always been shown as such in game. Blood in the Snow is a good step, but that doesn't necessarily erase the other things he's done that weren't purely military.


Personally I think its impossible to try and separate politics and military matters fully. For example, the blood elves, getting them to join has both political and military aspect to it. Same with how to deal with the sha.

However I dont see Varian every dealing with more domestic issue of the various races. Like taxes, agriculture, industry etc.


The problem is taxes, argriculture, and industry DO deal with military as well.

Clear, defining limits need to be placed and stated and if the game shows him overstepping them (and I consider the Blood Elf thing overstepping them), he should be called on it and punished accordingly.

The problem is, as a soverign of a nation as well as Military Commander, he can't be punished.

Which is why him having both roles doesn't work.

Him offering that and forcing the rest of the Alliance to take on trade agreements, work besides the Blood Elves, and everything else it means to be in an Alliance was wrong without checking and discussing it with the other leaders.

Darnassus would have protected the Worgen with or without the Alliance, but they at least made it clear to the worgen that the Alliance bit was dependant on other nations.
Edited by Ferlion on 4/15/2013 12:55 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
04/15/2013 12:53 PMPosted by Ferlion
Clear, defining limits need to be placed and stated and if the game shows him overstepping them (and I consider the Blood Elf thing overstepping them), he should be called on it and punished accordingly.


Here is the thing, there is only so much screentime that is allow due to the fact it is a game. Do we really want Blizz spending that screentime talking about limits, limits which in my believe Varian would never really break?(yes Varian could break them but that doesnt seem to be where the plot is heading and would ultimately be pointless to discuss)

As for the Blood elves, I just assume he was convincing the other leaders as well. He isnt stupid, he isnt going to jeopardize the Alliance to get back the blood elves. Also none of the faction have a huge reason not to allow the blood elves into the Alliance.(even the drenaei have soften there stance considering what Velen did for them)
Edited by Zerde on 4/15/2013 1:05 PM PDT
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90 Troll Hunter
13200
Also none of the faction have a huge reason not to allow the blood elves into the Alliance.

You don't think the High or Night Elves would have a problem with it?
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90 Human Warrior
13525
High Elves and Night Elves would have a BIG problem. That's obvious.
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
You don't think the High or Night Elves would have a problem with it?


The night elves probably wont have too much of a problem with them, remember Tyrande had work with the blood elves before(not to mentioned they of all people would want to weaken Garrosh's Horde). As for the high elves, they are not exactly the most powerful political force in the Alliance. Now that I think about it they were not even represented in the Wolfheart book.

04/15/2013 01:08 PMPosted by Lena
He obviously didn't since Jaina knew nothing about it.


Well Jaina wasnt exactly an Alliance leader at the time.

Technically Jaina was neutral at the time. It could also have been that he wanted to inform he but didnt get the opportunity until it was much too late.
Edited by Zerde on 4/15/2013 1:14 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
As for the Blood elves, I just assume he was convincing the other leaders as well. He isnt stupid, he isnt going to jeopardize the Alliance to get back the blood elves. Also none of the faction have a huge reason not to allow the blood elves into the Alliance.(even the drenaei have soften there stance considering what Velen did for them)


He obviously didn't since Jaina knew nothing about it. Plus night elves and high elves aren't exactly big fans of blood elves.
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90 Troll Hunter
13200
The night elves probably wont have too much of a problem with them, remember Tyrande had work with the blood elves. As for the high elves, they are not exactly the most powerful political force in the Alliance. Now that I think about it they were not even represented in the Wolfheart book.

Tyrande worked with Kael'thas in the past. And that turned out real well.

And the High Elves, especially Vereesa, hate the Blood Elves with a passion. They would be alienated, I'd almost be willing to say they'd either leave the Alliance or attempt a hostile takeover of Silvermoon.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
As for the Blood elves, I just assume he was convincing the other leaders as well


Jaina didn't know about it.

And yes. Those limits do need to be placed. And broken.

Otherwise, the story is going to stagnate.

Varian's position of High King makes it the prime suspect for interfactional tension and for establishing the Alliance ID.

The only thing is, when they do the story, it can't be done as "Side A is evil and wrong while Side B is obviously correct".
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90 Draenei Shaman
14085
Tyrande worked with Kael'thas in the past. And that turned out real well.

And the High Elves, especially Vereesa, hate the Blood Elves with a passion. They would be alienated, I'd almost be willing to say they'd either leave the Alliance or attempt a hostile takeover of Silvermoon.


Well the high elves cant really leave, or more precisely they wouldnt have anywhere else to go.
And as much as I would want the High elves to take back Silvermoon the logistics are against the high elves.

As for Tyrande I dont think she will condemn an entire race just because of the action of one person.
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90 Troll Hunter
13200
As for Tyrande I dont think she will condemn an entire race just because of the action of one person.

Wouldn't be the first time it's happened in Azeroth.
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90 Goblin Hunter
17575
More evidence that Alliance are never happy.

Cataclysm Alliance's complaint was that they never got to hit the Horde back during questing.

Alliance Pandaria quests all involves them kicking the Horde in the !@# every time they attack.

Alliance complain that they don't shoot first.

Blizzard should just ignore the Alliance fanbase entirely at this point.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9485
Lytum, It's not an issue of "hitting people back," it's about storytelling, writing, and char. development. That's the crux of our issues.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/15/another-take-what-is-the-alliance-missing/

Good post about this.
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90 Draenei Monk
16325
More evidence that Alliance are never happy.

Cataclysm Alliance's complaint was that they never got to hit the Horde back during questing.

Alliance Pandaria quests all involves them kicking the Horde in the !@# every time they attack.

Alliance complain that they don't shoot first.

Blizzard should just ignore the Alliance fanbase entirely at this point.


It's not about winning, it's about the storytelling. The alliance had a few victories in Cata, they just weren't shown well. MoP also has some pretty serious problems with storytelling on the alliance side. Winning doesn't make something a good story.
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90 Human Paladin
0
More evidence that Alliance are never happy.

Cataclysm Alliance's complaint was that they never got to hit the Horde back during questing.

Alliance Pandaria quests all involves them kicking the Horde in the !@# every time they attack.

Alliance complain that they don't shoot first.

Blizzard should just ignore the Alliance fanbase entirely at this point.


Entirely not the point of Alliance complaints.
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