Concerning 5.3

Well, tension is reaching a point where I want to slap you all and tell you to sit in a corner. Unfortunately, I cannot do this, so I'm going to give you all my opinion on the situation.

I, for one, am not saying that this minor patch is what I had in mind for the patch before the Siege, but oh well, it's what I'm getting.

Right now Garrosh is the enemy, but so are the Darkspear Trolls. However, like the old saying, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" so the Alliance and the Rebellion are going to tolerate each other until their mutual enemy is dead.

This can also be seen in the history of our own world. The USSR and America were allies during the second world war due to their common enemy in Adolf Hitler and !@#$ Germany. So in 5.3 the Alliance and the USSD (Union of Soviet Socialist Darkspear) are going to play nice until Adolf Hitler, sorry, I mean Garrosh Hellscream is dead.
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90 Human Death Knight
14930
I don't think that's a valid comparison. The US and Soviets were real people. The Alliance and the Darkspears are fictional, controlled by writers who are openly mocking the fans of one side.

Even putting aside the lore implications of what Vol'jin said, it was still in poor taste and people are right to be upset by it.
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90 Human Warrior
16790
This can also be seen in the history of our own world. The USSR and America were allies during the second world war due to their common enemy in Adolf Hitler and !@#$ Germany. So in 5.3 the Alliance and the USSD (Union of Soviet Socialist Darkspear) are going to play nice until Adolf Hitler, sorry, I mean Garrosh Hellscream is dead.


The difference is that American troops weren't defending Staligrad and Moscow, playing buddy-buddy with Stalin, and then being awarded "Honorary Red Army" medals.

Instead of the Alliance getting their own front, and their own build up to the Siege to advance, we get unceremoniously dropped into the Horde storyline so that Blizzard can save on developing content.

If I were an American soldier, I'd rather fight on Iwo Jima or Normandy than in Russia.
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Lol comparing ingame to real life is just asking for trouble >.<
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Lol comparing ingame to real life is just asking for trouble >.<

There's so many parallels between Blizzard's writing and Earth's history when it comes to AvH it's not even funny.
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90 Human Paladin
10470
I have no real way of knowing whether Vol'jin's comments were added in response to fan complaints, I have no real way of knowing whether they reflect Blizzard's attitude or this is just Vol'jin's beliefs and/or bluff.

But I sit here asking myself, what kind of company goes out of its way to make fun of their own fans/customers for getting invested in a faction rivalry they TOLD us to get invested in? What kind of company, upon hearing a part of their fanbase doesn't like their story, intentionally makes it worse for them to punish them for having complained in the first place?

And if Blizzard ISN'T doing these things....how have they let a disconnect with their fans fester to the point that otherwise rational people would actually entertain such conspiratorial beliefs?

It seems like that fact alone should make them pause to re-examine the way they deal with us.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10555
I have no real way of knowing whether Vol'jin's comments were added in response to fan complaints, I have no real way of knowing whether they reflect Blizzard's attitude or this is just Vol'jin's beliefs and/or bluff.

But I sit here asking myself, what kind of company goes out of its way to make fun of their own fans/customers for getting invested in a faction rivalry they TOLD us to get invested in? What kind of company, upon hearing a part of their fanbase doesn't like their story, intentionally makes it worse for them to punish them for having complained in the first place?

And if Blizzard ISN'T doing these things....how have they let a disconnect with their fans fester to the point that otherwise rational people would actually entertain such conspiratorial beliefs?

It seems like that fact alone should make them pause to re-examine the way they deal with us.
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90 Human Mage
13505
I have no real way of knowing whether Vol'jin's comments were added in response to fan complaints, I have no real way of knowing whether they reflect Blizzard's attitude or this is just Vol'jin's beliefs and/or bluff.

But I sit here asking myself, what kind of company goes out of its way to make fun of their own fans/customers for getting invested in a faction rivalry they TOLD us to get invested in? What kind of company, upon hearing a part of their fanbase doesn't like their story, intentionally makes it worse for them to punish them for having complained in the first place?

And if Blizzard ISN'T doing these things....how have they let a disconnect with their fans fester to the point that otherwise rational people would actually entertain such conspiratorial beliefs?

It seems like that fact alone should make them pause to re-examine the way they deal with us.


Weather or not that happens let's be honest here. The Forums aren't exactly totally civil either. With that said keep the cynicism out and be civil. I'm done with these AvH threads.
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90 Human Warlock
9560
If you think its bad now, wait until 5.3 hits the regular players. The "WTF? WHY AM I HELPING THE HORDE???" threads are going to be wall to wall.

You want to talk about lore without talking about the faction stuff? Basically every major question that can be asked about the remainder of MoP will necessarily go straight into Ally vs. Horde territory.

Think about it.... If, before the info on 5.3 had come out, I had said, "There will be more Horde scenarios than Ally scenarios." or "The alliance quest line will consist of helping the horde rebels, where ally will get the chance to earn the title "Darkspear Revolutionary", would that have come across as anything other than bitter Alliance craziness? Yet that's exactly what we're getting.

Seriously how crazy do my suggestions of Horde Biased lore have to be that they won't actually be implemented??

Darkspear Revolutionary?? WTF???

And that's on TOP of the storyline that we've already seen being built that completely absolves the Horde and leads to yet another at-best-draw situation:
* Peacemonger Anduin given front-center stage.
* All Horde actions being scapegoated on Garrosh.
* Pro-war alliance npcs all coming across as being ruled by their emotions.

The 5.3 stuff just confirms the fears that we already had built up. Worse, it actually goes beyond them.

The Ally rage you're seeing now is just the warmup.

I certainly understand the desire to have nice discussions about lore here, but with an 800 lb gorilla of crazy Horde bias in the room, we're just not going to be talking about much else.
Edited by Wreave on 4/9/2013 8:25 PM PDT
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
I think tension is dissipating now that even more new quest text is showing up. Of which the most important one is, the Alliance have kicked the Horde as a whole teeth in.

Reason why Banshee queen helping? SHe need the Horde but the horde fighting each other is going to leave her open to the Alliance so she have to help.

Same with the blood elves

Same with the taurens

The Alliance is about to deliver the killing blow to the Horde from the quest text that been released.
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90 Human Monk
13395
then they need to finish them
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55 Draenei Death Knight
470
I think we are just about too but then being good guys...I really don't think regardless if you are Alliance or horde that when we walk into ogrimmar we will see a !@#$ concentration camp scenes...I dont think as good guys we would be able to deliever the finishing blow.

The Horde know we could but the Alliance couldn't put the sword to a race that is all bones and hungry ...I dare Blizzard to put in a scene where we as Alliance walk into a prison camp filled with trolls, orcs , taurens and blood elves starving and pretty much all skin and bones...the spell of urine and what not would be over powering and we would redirect our anger.

We might even be seen as savior by the saved horde members and..as an Alliance I wouldn't be able to put those people to the sword.
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90 Human Monk
13395
that still wouldnt stop the horde pulling out some retarded reason to hate the alliance again and we will back back to square one all over again if we can take the horde out now and shatter them then we need to other wise its plot armor intervention concentration camps or not.

i dont not know how an alliance soldier could care at all what happens to a horde civilian they were sure fine with us getting killed up until garrosh went 180, id would love to see some horde races suffering for what they have done and i honestly wouldnt feel sorry for them at all.

at the end of the day horde will still hate us so i see no reason to be nice to the enemy.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
We might even be seen as savior by the saved horde members and..as an Alliance I wouldn't be able to put those people to the sword.


I would. They supported a violent dictator. They made their bed, let them lie in it (and be buried in it too)
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
that still wouldnt stop the horde pulling out some retarded reason to hate the alliance again and we will back back to square one all over again if we can take the horde out now and shatter them then we need to other wise its plot armor intervention concentration camps or not.

i dont not know how an alliance soldier could care at all what happens to a horde civilian they were sure fine with us getting killed up until garrosh went 180, id would love to see some horde races suffering for what they have done and i honestly wouldnt feel sorry for them at all.

at the end of the day horde will still hate us so i see no reason to be nice to the enemy.


^ This
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90 Tauren Death Knight
16350
04/09/2013 09:08 PMPosted by Kynrind
We might even be seen as savior by the saved horde members and..as an Alliance I wouldn't be able to put those people to the sword.


I would. They supported a violent dictator. They made their bed, let them lie in it (and be buried in it too)
I;m sorry that as a Horde player I have to be subject to the whimsical moods of the writers in how they want to Horde to be to suit the needs of the Heroic Alliance.

Hey guys, let's make the most obnoxious Horde character a warchief-bring the war back, amirite?

Okay, turns out that was kinda lame, let's try to make him at least semi-likable.

Woops, turns out the War is dying down already, let's fix that.

I just want the rollercoaster to stop-Watch as after this grand gesture of Faction co-operation, Baine will say Tyrande is fat and the War will be on again in full swing.
Edited by Shmala on 4/10/2013 3:31 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
13505
04/09/2013 09:08 PMPosted by Kynrind
We might even be seen as savior by the saved horde members and..as an Alliance I wouldn't be able to put those people to the sword.


I would. They supported a violent dictator. They made their bed, let them lie in it (and be buried in it too)


It's easy to say that when you weren't in it.
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90 Human Warrior
13600
I would. They supported a violent dictator. They made their bed, let them lie in it (and be buried in it too)


And that just highlights how psychotic you are.
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I just want the rollercoaster to stop-Watch as after this grand gesture of Faction co-operation, Baine will say Tyrande is fat and the War will be on again in full swing.


Be realistic, Baine will simply comment that dress makes her butt look big.

-War as it has never been waged before will ensue.
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
then they need to finish them


You need to tone back your expectations.

It's the writer's fault partially for putting such a stupid situation in (one side being on the verge of destroying the other). But you need to realize that this is an MMO where the players can chose either side, but are then stuck with what their side does. It is not fair to the Alliance players that they've been forced to tolerate apparent Horde domination, and it's equally unfair to tie the Horde players to Big Bad and make them work for him. Now, after stirring up faction rage since the Wrathgate, they're trying to force two sides they made hate each other (in and out of game) work together.

But screaming for one side to be Obliterated is pointless, and a way to build up expectations beyond what they, as developers of a game, can deliver. Blizzard can not destroy the Horde because that's 50% of their players. Wanting them to is setting up for disappointment.

I would. They supported a violent dictator. They made their bed, let them lie in it (and be buried in it too)


I will say it again. We had no choice. We were forced by the storyline to derp along as he acted like a jackass the whole way along. I didn't like the stupid orc in Cataclysm when he appointed moronic commanders, summarily executed NPC after NPC for minor failures, and threw a whole army away in the Twilight Highlands stupidly going "ATTACKATTACKATTACK"
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