tankin trinkets

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11190
i have the alchemists zen stone atm but i also have darkmist vortex and lei shens final orders (both are lfr versions) would it be better to just one of those for tanking or just stick with the zen stone?
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
17750
Use final orders and vortex, they're both much better than the alchemist stone.
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100 Tauren Paladin
12015
Use final orders and vortex, they're both much better than the alchemist stone.

I wouldn't advise using Darkmist Vortex as a tank. It's not even good for Ret. The haste proc has a horribly long ICD. The passive mastery+haste reforge on the Alchemist Stone, with the strength proc, would likely be far better than the parry+occasional haste from Vortex.

Given how far the OP is below the expertise cap, though, I would actually advise picking up a Ghost Iron Dragonling and put haste/mastery/expertise cogwheels in it. (Actually, GID is probably way better than the Alchemist Stone too.)
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
17750
Really, I thought the vortex was a desired trinket for protadins last tier? I'm probably thinking of something else though. But yeah, didn't look at his hit/exp caps, GiD is probably a good choice to help with those caps til other gear makes hitting them easier.

Should also probably replace those defenders' amethysts with expertise (or expertise hybrids). Could also consider changing those green gems to either get hit or exp rather than stam, depending on if he needs the extra stam or not. And if he does go with the GiD he could consider going hit and expertise and dropping either the haste or mastery, the hit cog could free up some reforging elsewhere for more expertise if needed.
Edited by Pancakê on 4/12/2013 9:55 PM PDT
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14 Night Elf Druid
0
Almost certainly thinking of Lei Shen's Final Orders off Will of the Emperor (static haste, procced strength).

Had hilariously high uptime on the str proc, and static haste on a trinket is really good.
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90 Human Paladin
8670
I use the normal mode version of Lei Shen's Final Orders and I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is a delicious trinket.

If you have it, use it unless you have something better, like Spark of Zandalar.
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90 Human Paladin
16755
Spark of Zandalar is such a dammed good trinket
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7640
Spark of Zandalar is such a dammed good trinket


The large amount of passive Haste is nice but the ramp up time is bleh.
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100 Draenei Paladin
14025
04/12/2013 09:30 AMPosted by Keten
Use final orders and vortex, they're both much better than the alchemist stone.

I wouldn't advise using Darkmist Vortex as a tank. It's not even good for Ret. The haste proc has a horribly long ICD. The passive mastery+haste reforge on the Alchemist Stone, with the strength proc, would likely be far better than the parry+occasional haste from Vortex.

Given how far the OP is below the expertise cap, though, I would actually advise picking up a Ghost Iron Dragonling and put haste/mastery/expertise cogwheels in it. (Actually, GID is probably way better than the Alchemist Stone too.)


Completely agreed.

Haste is a fantastic stat for Prot when it comes in a reliable form (either passive or on-demand). A random uncontrollable proc that may or may not be there when you are actually taking heavy damage (or taking damage at all on taunt swap fights) is certainly not high on our wishlist ;-)
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100 Human Paladin
13775
Spike Damage Protection:
Stam > hit/expertise cap > haste/mastery > dodge/parry

Total Damage Reduction:
dodge/parry > all else (including hit/expertise)

DPS:
hit/expertise > haste

Most people tend to get enough stam to where they feel comfortable and then go with haste. As long as spikes aren't a problem for your healers, then you'll greatly increase your dps doing this. If you are having problems with your active mitigation, are way under geared, or are doing high end content, then stamina would probably be better.

Otherwise, haste haste haste provides a great trade off. It gives good spike protection, and also makes you do more dps...on top of just being a fun stat due to how it actually lets you press things faster the more you have.

I only do LFR, and I am fairly decent on my active mitigation usage, so a lot of stam really becomes overkill, so I tend to do a bit more balanced stam/haste build (slightly favoring stam). I tend to swap out my trinkets for haste or mastery reforged to haste trinkets, but will use double stam for a lot of things also...and it's my default choice if I don't know what to expect when doing a new fight.

I know you were asking about trinkets, but I just wanted to mention those things because trinkets are a great place for swapping out stats on a per-fight basis. So my ultimate advice? Save any trinket that has stats that are good for tanking (even if they are only good for certain things), and then you have the freedom to swap them in and out.

The only ones that will make that a problem are the ones that have hit/expertise or are reforged to hit/expertise just due to it messing up your caps.
Edited by Bravehearth on 4/16/2013 9:14 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
14025
Spike Damage Protection:
Stam > hit/expertise cap > haste/mastery > dodge/parry


Uhhh... no

If you put anything in front of Hit/Exp cap, you are doing it wrong.

The value of Stamina varies depending on basically everything, including a) the content you're doing, b) the stat you're comparing it against (pretty much only applies to Haste since that's our other "stackable" stat), c) the relative amount of each stat (you are pretty much never trading Haste for Stamina at a 1:1 ratio - actually trading 1 Haste for 1 Stamina would be a good trade in Stamina's favor much of the time, and it's pretty rare to be able to do so).

It's also worth noting that by increasing Shield of the Righteous uptime and increasing frequency of Sacred Shield ticks, Haste rating does a great job of smoothing damage intake and preventing damage spikes in its own right (Sacred Shield really comes into its own in Throne of Thunder when you can sit at 100k+ Vengeance for long periods and still not take much damage at all).
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100 Human Paladin
13775
If you put anything in front of Hit/Exp cap, you are doing it wrong.


Indeed I may have hit/exp and stam reversed there. I'd have to go look at Theck's latest post to a bit more closely. Still, it seems it depends on how good one is at actually using their active mitigation (if you look at logs, you would be surprised to see just how bad people are at it). All things considered though, in practice it would be fairly difficult to not be able to cap hit/exp even with fully stacking stamina though unless you just really don't have many stats to shift around via reforging.

And I already explained that the how much stamina you prefer varies based on a few factors. It's pure value for spike reduction is always there though. If you are undergeared, aren't good at active mitigation, or are doing bleeding edge content, then it makes perfect sense to stack stamina. If you want to lower your damage intake smoothness a bit in exchange for more dps, then haste is the stat to go with.

Actually, when one wants to maximize spike protection, stamina vs haste comes into play for trinkets, enchants, and gems. Stamina is THAT good for spike protection. Whether you need that much is an entirely different question though, and it depends.

Stamina is still king for smoothing damage intake, with haste/mastery coming in behind it, unless you have some math to contradict http://www.sacredduty.net/2013/04/16/stamina-updated-smoothness-data/

I have yet to see someone actually provide numbers to refute his work. That doesn't mean there isn't proof to the contrary, there just hasn't been any provided yet.

I can guarantee you that if you have some data that contradicts that, Theck would love to see it. And as always, I encourage people to read his work. Don't let me put words in his mouth if I misinterpret something.
Edited by Bravehearth on 4/16/2013 11:44 PM PDT
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100 Draenei Paladin
14025
Theck's Stamina numbers are all based on the assumption that you're recieving zero healing and, indeed, are not allowed to Word of Glory yourself at low health. If you find yourself in that situation often enough to gear that way, feel free to gear yourself based on his assumptions.

I've pointed that out in his comments and he writes it off, hehe. Apparently healing is irrelevant, and pressing ShoR like a bot is the only way to play. I personally gear myself based on actual tanking situations, not theoretical situations where I have a -100% healing recieved debuff or something of the sort.

edit: To clarify, my point is that the math he continues to post relating Stamina to Haste is basically irrelevant to any kind of actual tank situation, and it's pretty baffling that people are taking it seriously.
Edited by Tailias on 4/17/2013 9:52 AM PDT
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