What the Alliance is Missing

90 Blood Elf Priest
8390
Well, one - I've seen many Alliance make the same points I just made. They just usually don't lead off with gnomes. (I love gnomes, and think it's criminal just how simplistic Blizzard has always played them.)

Two, the average person commenting has no experience with literary criticism or even serious amateur writing. Thus, a lot of their suggestions are going to be as off-the-mark as many game design suggestions from casual players. IMO it's amiss to get overly focused on their specific suggestions. They are ultimately framed in terms of the poor structure which the people trying to get rid of, because most people have no good reason to be versed in literary criticism or serious writing. That's not their fault. But they *can* tell that something is wrong, and that deserves to be pointed out.

It's not that I disagree with your points, it's that I believe there are more constructive attitudes which could and should be adopted.
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87 Gnome Warlock
8510
To hell what the factions need. What this game needs is a villain that will be remembered, someone like arthas who isnt afraid of showing themselves whenever they feel like it, who sees everyone as just weak and pathetic. someone who will just walk up into orgrimmar or stormwind and rip out the soul of anduin or thralls son and crush it right infront of their eyes then laugh as everyone tries to stop is just cut down in seconds.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12280
Make it so the lore you guys get isn't completely focus on humans, seriously.


this.

but back the main topic;
I agree completely with this article, the horde just feel like they are always doing something the alliance reacts to but they never do anything for the horde to react to. What happened to the mighty paladins and valorous footmen that fought alongside us, not just throwing out auto-attacks but actually fighting. We need to faction and let off of doing the constant favors of neutral people who we don't even recognize.

We need to fight for what we believe in! When the horde gives you lemons, throw them back! Let them know that we are still here and we will not be pushed around without pushing back. We are the ALLIANCE for pete's sake! We are the ones stand bravely and fight for what we believe in, but we don't just fight, we fight with honor and valor unmatched on the battlefield yet we keep a clear head and never back down when it comes to defending those beliefs.

The horde is based around tribal and shamanistic beliefs thus they fight brutally, Good! it creates difference between the alliance and horde, makes it feel like world of WARcraft again!

Im not talking about throwing only heroes from both sides at each-other either, i'm talking about fighting alongside the the alliance army and feeling equal in strength as if it were a real conflict. I doubt in real conflict we would be killing other faction's soldiers in 5 hits, make them fight back! Make them fight, not by giving them a lot more health but make them our equals so then the feeling of victory is still there and do the same for both factions!

Have more variations of alliance npc's not just paladins, priests and warriors. throw in some major death knight or warlock characters. Death knights and locks don't have to be evil, we're just as noble as paladins are!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8390
To hell what the factions need. What this game needs is a villain that will be remembered, someone like arthas who isnt afraid of showing themselves whenever they feel like it, who sees everyone as just weak and pathetic. someone who will just walk up into orgrimmar or stormwind and rip out the soul of anduin or thralls son and crush it right infront of their eyes then laugh as everyone tries to stop is just cut down in seconds.


I don't think there's been a big bad in this game after Vanilla that I haven't found laughably ridiculous except for Kil'Jaeden. Arthas was a joke. LOOK AT ME, FISHER-PRICE ARMOR AND SCARY VOICE. OOOH.
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90 Human Paladin
13265
I said it in the articles and I'll say it here. What the Alliance needs is for the writers to start acting like professionals.

That means sometimes taking an awesome story idea and stay with me here, apply it to the Alliance.

That means sometimes when time constraints prevent both sides from getting equal treatment or one having to go without that roughly half the time the side without is Horde.

That means if you are spending the time and money to develop all the Horde leaders then you need to remember that the Alliance isn't Varian. It's Gelbin, it's the Council of Three Hammers, it's Velen, it's Tyrande, it's Genn. Put them in the forefront from time to time, without Varian or Jaina tagging along.

And finally, Blizzard where the hell is our "fist pumping" moment you promised us when you released that garbage Theramore scenario and we, as a player base, called you on your shoddy work? Haven't seen it yet so get back in there and no Green Jesus until you come back with something decent. Go on, I'll continue waiting for you do so.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8390
I rolled a Mage originally so I could spend more time in Theramore as an Alliance.

This game has never managed to provoke an emotional response from me until that happened. And that response was mild anger.

I'm not looking forward to playing the Alliance version of that scenario if it's as bad as you all keep making it out to be. (Haven't rolled Ally in MoP yet.)
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90 Human Paladin
13265
I'm not looking forward to playing the Alliance version of that scenario if it's as bad as you all keep making it out to be. (Haven't rolled Ally in MoP yet.)


We play clean up duty after the bomb drops. We don't get to defend Theramore, we just get to watch the Horde win.
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85 Gnome Mage
8515
Yeah, so I heard.

This is said mage.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16040
04/17/2013 08:37 AMPosted by Anjafira
To hell what the factions need. What this game needs is a villain that will be remembered, someone like arthas who isnt afraid of showing themselves whenever they feel like it, who sees everyone as just weak and pathetic. someone who will just walk up into orgrimmar or stormwind and rip out the soul of anduin or thralls son and crush it right infront of their eyes then laugh as everyone tries to stop is just cut down in seconds.


I don't think there's been a big bad in this game after Vanilla that I haven't found laughably ridiculous except for Kil'Jaeden. Arthas was a joke. LOOK AT ME, FISHER-PRICE ARMOR AND SCARY VOICE. OOOH.

Hahaha, right?!! Not to mention you couldn't kick a dead marmot without it bouncing off the bucket on his head. The man was showing up all over the place. Get some reliable henchmen dude, and actually let them step outside of the dungeon every once in a while. When I see you, I should be thinking "Oh my God! It's the Lich King!!!" not "Oh, hey Arthas. Haven't seen you for a whole fifteen minutes." You're an end boss, not a waitress ffs.

That said, the scourge as a whole? The whole concept of it? Scariest thing in the game so far. Speaking of which, I think Blizz has done better making larger organizations, such as the Scourge, the Legion and the Twilights Hammer more menacing as opposed to individual characters. I think Lei Shen is the best they've done with that in a long time. He feels like a big deal. Just the right amount of foreshadowing and if you look around, evidence of him is everywhere. He epitomizes everything that makes the Mogu a threat. He could stand to have a bit more active dialogue. Like maybe a scene with him speaking to Zul the Prophet, or looking over Pandaria and assessing the developments of the centuries since he left...but meh, going without that is better than overexposure.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
8390
Agreed 100%, Leucen. I haven't caught up on the Thunder King yet (I've missed so much in the last year or two) but everything I've heard makes it sound like he acts like, and also LOOKS like, a badass. Honestly, I feel like Blizzard's storytelling in the microcosm of Pandaria is at its apex for World of Warcraft, my only problems with it are how some of the things feel when they get hooked up to the rest of Azeroth's history.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16040
I rolled a Mage originally so I could spend more time in Theramore as an Alliance.

You know what I remember about Theramore? That quest chain where you had to go around discrediting the malcontents that disliked Jaina for not being a warmongering buttknuckle like her papa.

Back then, when I wished for a revamp of Dustwallow, I always sorta hoped they'd expand on that. Maybe provide a little friction between her and the more hardline leaders. Show that she could be a woman of action while not giving up that uncrushable hope. The fire in her that allowed her to stand up to Daelin.

I liked that Jaina. War does things to people, I guess...back then I thought she understood that and wanted to fight against it, rather than being swept up in revenge and righteous bloodthirst after allowing her city to be the staging ground for an all out invasion. Surprise! Consequences.

I won't say anything else on the subject, though. Last thing this thread needs to be is one of those threads.
Edited by Leucen on 4/17/2013 9:04 AM PDT
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96 Human Paladin
12360
http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/15/another-take-what-is-the-alliance-missing/

I started out playing Alliance because our friend who was more familiar with the game picked that side. However, the reason why I continue to play Alliance and why most of my alts are in that faction was a slow realization that the humans and dwarves etal were not important to their creators. Being the unloved child struck deep with me and came to full realization in Cata by the treatment of Hawthorne.

I will always champion those who fall by the wayside, those used and cast aside, those who were found wanting through no fault of their own.

FOR THE ALLIANCE!
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100 Human Paladin
16245
Make it so the lore you guys get isn't completely focus on humans, seriously.


I agree

Honestly Blizzard should read all 3 articles regarding this on Wow Insider

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/17/know-your-lore-the-horde-vs-the-horde/
http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/14/know-your-lore-what-is-the-alliance-missing/
http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/04/15/another-take-what-is-the-alliance-missing/
Edited by Paladinchaz on 4/17/2013 10:41 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
15845
The problem goes all the way back to WarCraft 1.

The Horde existed independent of the Alliance. Their story took place here, but Azeroth was just a stage. Their characters had motivations and desires, leading to demon-blood fueled conquest. They were the Bad Guy.

The Alliance existed purely as a reaction to the Horde. Their entire story is "Uh-oh! Lets band together to fight them off!" They were the Good Guy.

This hasn't changed much since then.

This problem isn't restricted to WoW. Many stories portray the Good Guy as purely reactionary, they get no development not related to the Bad Guy. By contrast, because they take the initative, the Bad Guy gets some sort of motivation to do what they do. They exist independent of the Good Guy and would do stuff even if there was no Good Guy. The Bad Guy becomes the real star of the show.

The only redeeming characteristic of the Good Guy is that they Always Win. That doesn't work in an MMO. Blizz still, no matter how they protest, seems to assume the Horde is the default Bad Guy and the Alliance is the default Good Guy in any conflict between the two.

Until that is broken, the Alliance will never have a true story or agency. They will be the Good Guy minor character in the Bad Guy's show.
Edited by Ytinthia on 4/17/2013 10:49 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16040
The problem goes all the way back to WarCraft 1.

The Horde existed independent of the Alliance. Their story took place here, but Azeroth was just a stage. Their characters had motivations and desires, leading to demon-blood fueled conquest. They were the Bad Guy.

The Alliance existed purely as a reaction to the Horde. Their entire story is "Uh-oh! Lets band together to fight them off!" They were the Good Guy.

This hasn't changed much since then.

This problem isn't restricted to WoW. Many stories portray the Good Guy as purely reactionary, they get no development not related to the Bad Guy. By contrast, because they take the initative, the Bad Guy gets some sort of motivation to do what they do. They exist independent of the Good Guy and would do stuff even if there was no Good Guy. The Bad Guy becomes the real star of the show.

The only redeeming characteristic of the Good Guy is that they Always Win. That doesn't work in an MMO. Blizz still, no matter how they protest, seems to assume the Horde is the default Bad Guy and the Alliance is the default Good Guy in any conflict between the two.

Until that is broken, the Alliance will never have a true story or agency. They will be the Good Guy minor character in the Bad Guy's show.

I've never heard it put better. Never.

/bow
/worship
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90 Dwarf Paladin
15400
I just want to say my favorite part in the article is the point about the 7th Legion, we need to see them again and they need to recruit, know who I think would be a good leader for the 7th Legion? Darius Crowley, he hasn't done anything outside of the starting zone, or Silverpine if you're Horde.
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100 Gnome Mage
14905
The Worgen were completely forgotten outside of their own starting zone, unless you were Horde. The Dreanei, well lets just say Blizzard should be very disappointed in themselves, their story is more forgotten than the Dance Studio.


Then there are the gnomes who will never get back their city or have a leader that does anything but one failed attempt to reclaim home. I feel duped for ever having picked a gnome to begin with, they are such a joke. Oh get an engineering racial and engineers can make guns (many bind on pickup) but cannot play a class that can actually use them despite all the murderous little NPC gnomes sporting everything from blunderbuss to blasters.... Toshy station or example.
Edited by Magnata on 4/17/2013 11:46 AM PDT
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100 Gnome Mage
14905
The biggest problem is that the Alliance story is told in books outside of the game and the horde one is told in game.


That has to end!
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90 Draenei Death Knight
6380
Yeah well, the Alliance also have stable leaders and a more structured way of life. While the Horde get a bit more deving from time to time than Alliance the Horde needs it IMO. Yeah there are a few things pending development on our side of the Warcraft table but all in due time.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
7675
i completely support this... the way the alliance has been overall marginalized into being a side character and not a primary character in the story.. at least from the side of events the horde players see...

i've dabbled in alliance characters and there it reeks of potential for telling an equal in epicness story.... the charachters there have meaning... purpose... depth... but we never get much development of their charachters in game... i felt like Garrosh using the Sunreavers to attack the alliance kinda just happened... and al lthe players only got to read about it in the news.

We (the Horde) blew up Theramore.... and nothing really bad happened to the horde..

I play horde... and some elements i love... as i LOVE my Sin'Dorei... but should'nt players be able to be Quel'Dorei (High Elves) or at least for the lore ignorant... the blue' eyed blood elves? (i'd faction change if that happened) PLUS for those warlocks who did at least up until the reliquary of souls... the npc's talk about how the arcane magics in that reliquary are so potent it would be able to fix the fel magic addiction to all the Sin'Dorei..... i mean... was that just a tease or is the eventuality that alliance will also get access to playable elves that arent purple?

A rough guess across all of wow i would put Horde approaching 55-60% to 40-45% alliance...of course excluding some of the Horde captial servers like Blackrock or Mal'Ganis and the Alliance juggernaut Tichondrious. etc...

I feel there is an imbalance in its core... due to the Horde being talked about far more often... given much more press.. and anything the Alliance does gets 10 minutes of fame then is marginalized..... i feel it's really sad.. not so jsut because it makes Horde have less of an "enemy" to face in the Alliance..... but it strips the reasons to fight for....sometimes people are forgetting the true reasons the Horde and Alliance fight.... REALLY..... the lore gets so forgotten that that occurs.???

We NEED a strong and well attended to Alliance... not jsut for the ally players... but also for the Horde players....

In WoLK we all rallied against Arthas because because the backstory was so developed and rich... the music was fantastic... the lore dripped of an epic stuggle... if a story loses its purpose... what is the point to the fighting.... what is the essence of why a person chooses Alliance or Horde... what is the reason we kill or show mercy.... consider these things...

Al diel shala friends
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